Six ways to measure you church.

[dragonfly]

Hi neophyte,

No doubt Axehead will wish to answer, but let me say this first:

Where in the Bible does it say that public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle?
Scripture verse please???

The way the RCC presents it's so-called revealing of God's latest word, in no way complies with scriptural criteria. That's the problem!

 

[neophyte]

You still haven't answered my question in my last post, Scripture verse please???
Another thing that you Prots do not like to accept is the true fact that if the authors of the NT believed in your sola Scriptura , why did they sometimes draw on [ the correct Catholic Bible way ] oral Tradition as authorative and as God's Word [ Matt. 2:23, 23:2; 1 Cor. 10:4; 1Pet. 3:19; Jude 9, 14 15 ]? So why is it ??? Answers please. Scripture verse or passage.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi neophyte,

So why is it ??? Answers please. Scripture verse or passage.

Obviously, until Moses wrote down what was already known of God in the whole world everything God spoke was directly to individuals. Israel became a nation (instead of just a family) at Sinai, and God continued to supply men within the nation who heard directly from Him.

Of course, we know there were also men outside the nation who heard from God.

The thing you seem to be unable to grasp, is that God stated His intentions long ago, and they are coming to pass as He indicated.

The RCC's many differences of opinion with God, make it quite difficult for anyone who knows God for themselves - as is now possible through being born again and having God as one's personal Father - to recognise many RCC pronouncements as being from the same Father.

You only need to read Jeremiah all through, to find out what happens to false prophets (preachers of lies).

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that to them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[Axehead]

Hi neophyte,



Obviously, until Moses wrote down what was already known of God in the whole world everything God spoke was directly to individuals. Israel became a nation (instead of just a family) at Sinai, and God continued to supply men within the nation who heard directly from Him.

Of course, we know there were also men outside the nation who heard from God.

The thing you seem to be unable to grasp, is that God stated His intentions long ago, and they are coming to pass as He indicated.

The RCC's many differences of opinion with God, make it quite difficult for anyone who knows God for themselves - as is now possible through being born again and having God as one's personal Father - to recognise many RCC pronouncements as being from the same Father.

You only need to read Jeremiah all through, to find out what happens to false prophets (preachers of lies).

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that to them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Wonderful! Yes, you are on the right track. Jeremiah 23 is a good place to start. Eze 13 is noteworthy, too.

I just posted Guidelines for Revelation and hope Neo will be edified. Part II, later on, but I have to get my day started, now.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

Wonderful! Yes, you are on the right track.

for the confirmation, brother.

 

[maccauk11]

You forgot the important stuff like having love amongst yourselves, putting up with eathc other , forgiveness , fruitage of the spirit, sharing out what you have with each other ( oh sorry that one never gets mentioned).



Why do we keep looking for a physical representation of the Kingdom. It is already within us
Luke 17: 20-21. This is the Truth that many of us find hard to accept. This is the freedom that the Lord gave those who love him.
The True church cannot be seen or touched it is "no part of the world" . Paul also spoke about the true church as one being not built by human hands and we can enter into with boldness and go right into the presence of Almighty God. This is spiritual and not physical.


The True church cannot be seen or touched it is "no part of the world" . Paul also spoke about the true church as one being not built by human hands and we can enter into with boldness and go right into the presence of Almighty God because there we have our High Priest who when on earth opened up the the way for us to enter the holy of holies. Again this is spiritual and not physical.

Every church on earth is counterfeit a deception and an illusion in opposition to the real thing. Jesus put an end to religious ways at the cross and opened up the way for us. Listen to him and him only and you will never be deceived. God himself will teach you the truth and lead you in the way you should go through the Holy Spirit. The church Paul spoke about in Hebrews is clean undefiled and has a leader that will never be corrupted.

It's when a believer realizes this that he can be set free. The freedom Jesus spoke about. The cry from him in revelation for those who love him, is him warning us to "get out of her my people". Just like when he says if anyone says "here is Christ" or "he is here" do not believe them Matthew 24: 23-26. Millions of our brothers and sisters have not heeded his words.

The judgement is upon the churches.. Therefore any earthly representation is counterfeit and an illusion or delusion to the reality of the real thing . Brothers and Sisters, when are you going to wake up and stop following men who lead you away form True Worship. The true worshippers worship in Spirit and Truth, they have no need for anyone to teach them anything.

All things have been accomplished. We walk through this life serving him, living a life of justice and mercy towards others. Our heavenly father does not need anything form us, he does not require sacrifices or works. We enter into his rest by letting ourselves be free from man. We rid ourselves of the weight of sin that the churches keep us enslaved in. We live non judgmental lives. Love God and love our neighbour.

 

[Strat]

thanks for your reply.

I would have to say that rule 2 and 3 are fairly central to Christs teachings and to the responsibility he put on all christians.

Christian followers were never meant to be 'armchair' followers. Their faith needed to be shared and Christ trained his disciples for the work of preaching:
Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord designated seventy others and sent them forth by twos in advance of him into every city and place to which he himself was going to come. 2 Then he began to say to them: “The harvest, indeed, is great, but the workers are few. Therefore beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest. 3 Go forth. Look! I am sending YOU forth as lambs in among wolves.


And if you take Jesus parting words as confirmation, his apostles were taught to preach, and Jesus said they should teach others to observe all the things that they themselves had been taught. So the apostles were not the only ones who would be preachers and teachers:
Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU
If those taking the lead in your church are not teaching you to be a preacher and teacher, then they are not obeying Christs command to them.

With regard to political neutrality, that is also central to being a member of Christs kingdom. Paul viewed himself as an 'ambassador for Christ'....you can't be an ambassador for two nations. You either align yourself with Gods kingdom, or you align yourself with some other kingdom. Besides that, Christ taught Christians to all 'think in agreement' and be 'united in the same mind'...Politics is a very divisive thing, it would be impossible to maintain unity if some members of a congregation were voting one way, others were voting another way... you cant' be united when politics enters the picture.

Politics is divisive ? i have no problem being completely divided from someone who supports the murder of unborn children or supports homosexuality or open sin of any kind...glady and cheerfully divided...."politics" is a term of conveinence used by those who don't want to have to take a stand for anything...so they label it as mere "politics" to diminish the signifigance of the issues.

 

[epostle1]

6 ways to measure my church:

1) Metric
2) English
3) Yard stick
4) Laser range finder
5) Blueprints
6) Celcius

:lol:

Now , will you, from the Bible show me where Jesus gave His Authorrity to any man or woman to invent future churches different from His "One True Church" as described above from those Bible verses.

Everything you say is true,neophyte, but I would exhort you not to come across as a gorilla having PMS. Apply firmness strategically. Truth is not to be used as a baseball bat; leave that for our opponents who delude themselves into thinking they own something that is not theirs. (see my thread starter: TRUTH) It's not ours either. Nobody "owns" truth. Jesus said everything He taught comes from the Father. It is counterproductive to copy the same style as Protestants who don't know any better. You'll attract more flies with honey than you will with vinegar. I know it's hard, and I need to heed my own advice sometimes.

A better way to look at this is to ask if God is visible, living in and among the believers you fellowship with. I believe Axehead said loving God and loving people. We are building His Kingdom, not a man made organization.

Whatever makes Protestants think the Catholic Church is purely a man made organization? 2000 years of resistance from the world, attacks from within and from without, and we are 1 billion strong. She remains the oldest western institution on the planet. Why? Because our bishops and Popes are so holy and smart??? All human effort alone??? Gimmie a break. If we haven't been able to destroy the Church with some of the episcopates we've had, NOTHING WILL. Either Jesus has been with us from the beginning like He promised or He took a vacation until 1517. The Church is an extension of the Incarnation united by the Eucharist. You can't get any more biblical than that.

One of the worst thing a person can do is create an organization, one with a hierarchy, eg. Catholic, and attempt to place a stamp of approval on it and call it God's church. It is an attempt to copycat the old covenants temple worship system.

That is the crux of your problem, JohnnyB. You have been taught this lie probably all of your life. The hierarchical Church is not a mere human organization. It is a divine/human organization or it would have fallen away as an obscure cult in the putrid backwaters of history. You think the Catholic Church is modelled after AT&T, or General Motors. She is not. She is modeled after the Davidic Kingdom, a fulfilment of Judaism. Protestantism is so far removed from our Jewish roots it would be unrecognizable to 1st century Christians. And do-it-yourself "Holy Spirit" bible cults are even worse.

The Body does not need a multi million dollar building, on the contrary, we need the Body of Believers to put away their traditions, their man made doctrines, their own desires, and start participating with Him in building His Kingdom.

Tell that to Benny Hinn with his private jet, and Joyce Meyers with her $20 million mansion she lives in. The early Catholic Church could not build churches in the 1st 3 centuries because they were so heavily persecuted. Put away Traditions? Are you serious? the ones Paul commanded us to follow? What man made doctrines? The Catholic church has no "man made doctrines". Don't assert something so preposterous without backing it up. Do some research. Find out everything you can about the Catholic Church from reliable sources before throwing in a cluster bomb of falsehoods into the thread.