Six ways to measure you church.

[brionne]

Have you ever wondered how to know if your church is a true Christian Church being led by Gods spirit?
When Jesus met a woman in Samaria who had been deceived by false religion, he said to her: “You worship what you do not know . . . The true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.” (John 4:22, 23) Clearly, there is false worship and true worship. So how do you know if your church is following Christs example?


Well here is a checklist....


1. John 17:26: “I have made your name known.” Does your church make known Gods name?

2. Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations.” Is your church teaching you to be an active preacher of the Good news?

3. John 17:14 “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.” Does your church promote political neutrality? Does it encourage you to keep separate from the world alienated from God?

4. John 13:35 “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” Does your church promote love of neighbor & the christian brotherhood? Does it promote peace among people of different races? Does it condemn the unloving act of warfare and the taking up of arms against your christian brothers in other lands?

5. John 17:17 " Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth" Does your church uphold and promote the bible as the 'word of truth'? Does it defend the bible above all human thinking and wisdom and does it promote belief in Gods Word even if science is against it?

6. 1Cor 6:9 "Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom
Does your church teach, promote and uphold the high moral standards set out in Gods word the bible?



These are six simple ways to determine if your church is promoting a christian way of life. Besides christian conduct, there are also christian teachings which i have not addressed. Perhaps i'll compile a list of teachings as found in the bible as well, for now i'll just post this list.

 

[Episkopos]

At least the OP didn't try measuring in feet or yards.

This list is very flawed!

The true test of the real church is simple...Is it really led by the Spirit? Is it looking to make decisions or disciples? Is there real power from God being exhibited? Do ALL the members function? Do they love as Jesus loved?

 

[THE Gypsy]

At least the OP didn't try measuring in feet or yards.

This list is very flawed!

The true test of the real church is simple...Is it really led by the Spirit? Is it looking to make decisions or disciples? Is there real power from God being exhibited? Do ALL the members function? Do they love as Jesus loved?

That is one of the best questions EVER!

 

[Comm.Arnold]

So what do you do if you think your church isn't good for you. I just came back and i feel more depressed than I have throughout the rest of the week chatting with people on this forum.

 

[brionne]

So what do you do if you think your church isn't good for you. I just came back and i feel more depressed than I have throughout the rest of the week chatting with people on this forum.

find a church that builds you up, encourages you, inspires you, gives you hope and reassurance, teaches you to do Gods will, helps you to do Gods will, shows you how to imitate Christ, assists you with bible study, leads you in righteousness


there is a lot that a church can do for you if it is following the bible and teaching you how to follow the bible.

 

[IanLC]

Amen these general measurements are good but also is the church led by the Holy Spirit?

 

[BibleScribe]

To All,

YOU are the church. As such, are you depending on someone else to be an intermediary between you and GOD? Or are you an independent agent, personally devoted to prayer and study so that when you meet in an assembly, that you can provide a hymn, a doctrine, or a prophecy?


1 Corinthians 14:26

English Standard Version (ESV)
[sup]26[/sup]What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.


So rather than looking for a ~fellowship~ to perform a ~list~ of duties, the real question is whether YOU are performing to GOD's calling in YOUR life. And having personally performed to HIS leading, does your church permit the expression of your faith in action?

I dare say that virtually NO church allows the interaction which 1 Cor. 14 describes.

[sup]29[/sup]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. [sup]30[/sup]If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent.


For so many are modeled after a paid individual who does all the thinking, all the preaching, and all the leadership, and the membership simply goes to be ~fed~. -- What a travesty.



But we are commanded to be in fellowship and so I would encourage each to first of all be personally connected, and secondly, share your gifting with others.

BibleScribe

 

[brionne]

Amen these general measurements are good but also is the church led by the Holy Spirit?

You will be able to recognize a church led by holy spirit if they are producing the fruits of the holy spirit:

Galatians 5:22 On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control
And if they are doing the work that the holy spirit is sent out to do, then they are being led by it:
John 15:26 When the helper arrives that I will send YOU from the Father, the spirit of the truth, which proceeds from the Father, that one will bear witness about me; 27 and YOU, in turn, are to bear witness, because YOU have been with me from when I began.
Acts 1:8 but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju‧de′a and Sa‧mar′i‧a and to the most distant part of the earth.

 

[jiggyfly]

To All,

YOU are the church. As such, are you depending on someone else to be an intermediary between you and GOD? Or are you an independent agent, personally devoted to prayer and study so that when you meet in an assembly, that you can provide a hymn, a doctrine, or a prophecy?


1 Corinthians 14:26

English Standard Version (ESV)
[sup]26[/sup]What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.


So rather than looking for a ~fellowship~ to perform a ~list~ of duties, the real question is whether YOU are performing to GOD's calling in YOUR life. And having personally performed to HIS leading, does your church permit the expression of your faith in action?

I dare say that virtually NO church allows the interaction which 1 Cor. 14 describes.

[sup]29[/sup]Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. [sup]30[/sup]If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent.


For so many are modeled after a paid individual who does all the thinking, all the preaching, and all the leadership, and the membership simply goes to be ~fed~. -- What a travesty.



But we are commanded to be in fellowship and so I would encourage each to first of all be personally connected, and secondly, share your gifting with others.

BibleScribe

Very good post Biblescribe, I agree. Many think that the carnal religious system and what Jesus is building are the same entity but one must ask themselves, would Jesus build a church that is contrary to what He to what He taught? Many struggle to discern the difference between carnal and spiritual. The Christian religious system is modeled after the old covenant system of worship in many ways with employing such things as clergy, tithing, temple buildings, and some other old covenant ordinances.

 

[Prentis]

Very good post Biblescribe, I agree. Many think that the carnal religious system and what Jesus is building are the same entity but one must ask themselves, would Jesus build a church that is contrary to what He to what He taught? Many struggle to discern the difference between carnal and spiritual. The Christian religious system is modeled after the old covenant system of worship in many ways with employing such things as clergy, tithing, temple buildings, and some other old covenant ordinances.

Amen to these posts! Jesus is building his church his way.

When he uses an institution to do some of his work, it is in spite of it. We are to walk according to the spirit, not ordinances of men.

 

[jiggyfly]

Amen to these posts! Jesus is building his church his way.

When he uses an institution to do some of his work, it is in spite of it. We are to walk according to the spirit, not ordinances of men.

I think you might appreciate this Prentis.
http://www.austin-sp...ows/003392.html

 

[Prentis]

I think you might appreciate this Prentis.
http://www.austin-sp...ows/003392.html

Thanks for sharing jiggyfly. Very true!

Whether it is catholicism or protestantism, all of men's set ways have become entangled in the ways of the enemy.

To be led by the Spirit and walking according to the spirit goes contrary to everything that man does. Man takes things and wants to 'change' them, 'reform' them. But it is an illusion of changed, like the shuffling of a deck of cards, the cards are still the same.

What Christ brings always goes against the flow of what man is doing.

Man takes what God has done once, and builds an altar with it. But the spirit is always moving, and so at the place of the altar, man builds a religion around an experience, rather than following God. It is impossible for man to build the church. Man can only follow God, and then God can build his church.

 

[FHII]

1. John 17:26: “I have made your name known.” Does your church make known Gods name?

2. Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations.” Is your church teaching you to be an active preacher of the Good news?

3. John 17:14 “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.” Does your church promote political neutrality? Does it encourage you to keep separate from the world alienated from God?

4. John 13:35 “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” Does your church promote love of neighbor & the christian brotherhood? Does it promote peace among people of different races? Does it condemn the unloving act of warfare and the taking up of arms against your christian brothers in other lands?

5. John 17:17 " Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth" Does your church uphold and promote the bible as the 'word of truth'? Does it defend the bible above all human thinking and wisdom and does it promote belief in Gods Word even if science is against it?

6. 1Cor 6:9 "Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom
Does your church teach, promote and uphold the high moral standards set out in Gods word the bible?

Well, I'll go along with numbers 1 and 5.... Number 4 and 6 to a certain extent.... The only way I look to judge a Church is whether or not they are preaching and enforcing the Truth. I'm not against rule number 2 and 3, but they don't always fit.... For example, not all of the sheep are called to be preachers. As for political nuetrality... There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Pastor openly supporting a political issue.

 

[brionne]

Well, I'll go along with numbers 1 and 5.... Number 4 and 6 to a certain extent.... The only way I look to judge a Church is whether or not they are preaching and enforcing the Truth. I'm not against rule number 2 and 3, but they don't always fit.... For example, not all of the sheep are called to be preachers. As for political nuetrality... There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Pastor openly supporting a political issue.

thanks for your reply.

I would have to say that rule 2 and 3 are fairly central to Christs teachings and to the responsibility he put on all christians.

Christian followers were never meant to be 'armchair' followers. Their faith needed to be shared and Christ trained his disciples for the work of preaching:
Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord designated seventy others and sent them forth by twos in advance of him into every city and place to which he himself was going to come. 2 Then he began to say to them: “The harvest, indeed, is great, but the workers are few. Therefore beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest. 3 Go forth. Look! I am sending YOU forth as lambs in among wolves.


And if you take Jesus parting words as confirmation, his apostles were taught to preach, and Jesus said they should teach others to observe all the things that they themselves had been taught. So the apostles were not the only ones who would be preachers and teachers:
Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU
If those taking the lead in your church are not teaching you to be a preacher and teacher, then they are not obeying Christs command to them.

With regard to political neutrality, that is also central to being a member of Christs kingdom. Paul viewed himself as an 'ambassador for Christ'....you can't be an ambassador for two nations. You either align yourself with Gods kingdom, or you align yourself with some other kingdom. Besides that, Christ taught Christians to all 'think in agreement' and be 'united in the same mind'...Politics is a very divisive thing, it would be impossible to maintain unity if some members of a congregation were voting one way, others were voting another way... you cant' be united when politics enters the picture.

 

[FHII]

thanks for your reply.

I would have to say that rule 2 and 3 are fairly central to Christs teachings and to the responsibility he put on all christians.

Christian followers were never meant to be 'armchair' followers. Their faith needed to be shared and Christ trained his disciples for the work of preaching:
Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord designated seventy others and sent them forth by twos in advance of him into every city and place to which he himself was going to come. 2 Then he began to say to them: “The harvest, indeed, is great, but the workers are few. Therefore beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest. 3 Go forth. Look! I am sending YOU forth as lambs in among wolves.


And if you take Jesus parting words as confirmation, his apostles were taught to preach, and Jesus said they should teach others to observe all the things that they themselves had been taught. So the apostles were not the only ones who would be preachers and teachers:
Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU
If those taking the lead in your church are not teaching you to be a preacher and teacher, then they are not obeying Christs command to them.

With regard to political neutrality, that is also central to being a member of Christs kingdom. Paul viewed himself as an 'ambassador for Christ'....you can't be an ambassador for two nations. You either align yourself with Gods kingdom, or you align yourself with some other kingdom. Besides that, Christ taught Christians to all 'think in agreement' and be 'united in the same mind'...Politics is a very divisive thing, it would be impossible to maintain unity if some members of a congregation were voting one way, others were voting another way... you cant' be united when politics enters the picture.

Hi Pegg,

I'm coming from the viewpoint that not all are apostles, or pastors, or teachers. Yes, we are all being trained to be kings and priests. But on the calandar, most sheep aren't there yet, including myself.... I get a bit nervous even posting stuff because of that. He sent 70 out, not everyone. The best I can say is that every Christian should study and be ready to give an answer of the hope that lies within them. However, we on the calander, are not the ones in charge. We are still sheep (students). We can point to something greater like a true ministry, but we are not a ministry in ourselves. So yes we can do that, but only by pointing... See what I'm saying?

As for political neutrality.... Pegg... I'm planning to vote in the next election. I'd rather have the earth shut down and what most people call the rapture happen! I'd rather us all desolve and let the animal kingdom flourish as told in Revelations. I am not of the earth, but I'm still in it. I still follow an ambassador of Christ, like Paul. Funny thing is I work in the Public School System and I rarely say the pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to God only!

But we are still in the world... The folks in Washington effect my earthly life, and so I pay attention to what's going on in my earthly life as long as I am still here. My Pastor is my friend... I am going to listen to my friend! I may not agree with him on certain things that pertain to this earthly life, but that has nothing to do with salvation. I agree with him on issues of salvation, but he and I both agree that political views aren't a matter of salvation.

But it's a damned shame when everyone can speak their minds, but a Pastor can't. I'll be frank... My Pastor is against Obama, bu he openly says it has nothing to do with salvation. He just thinks it's stupid to support him.

We have to be of one mind and one accord on heavenly matters, not earthly matters. My Pastor hates Alfredo Sauce. I love it! I ain't going to hell or am even in trouble for that!

 

[brionne]

Hi Pegg,

I'm coming from the viewpoint that not all are apostles, or pastors, or teachers. Yes, we are all being trained to be kings and priests. But on the calandar, most sheep aren't there yet, including myself.... I get a bit nervous even posting stuff because of that. He sent 70 out, not everyone. The best I can say is that every Christian should study and be ready to give an answer of the hope that lies within them. However, we on the calander, are not the ones in charge. We are still sheep (students). We can point to something greater like a true ministry, but we are not a ministry in ourselves. So yes we can do that, but only by pointing... See what I'm saying?

well im interesting to know why you think that not all christians are apostles or pastors or teachers. I mean, the Apostle Paul said that 'any' christian man could reach out for such privileges of service at 1Timothy 3:1
Do you think that the structure of most churches simply dont allow for all its members to be active in Gods service, or is it that you dont think all christians are qualified to serve?

As for political neutrality.... Pegg... I'm planning to vote in the next election. I'd rather have the earth shut down and what most people call the rapture happen! I'd rather us all desolve and let the animal kingdom flourish as told in Revelations. I am not of the earth, but I'm still in it. I still follow an ambassador of Christ, like Paul. Funny thing is I work in the Public School System and I rarely say the pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to God only!

But we are still in the world... The folks in Washington effect my earthly life, and so I pay attention to what's going on in my earthly life as long as I am still here. My Pastor is my friend... I am going to listen to my friend! I may not agree with him on certain things that pertain to this earthly life, but that has nothing to do with salvation. I agree with him on issues of salvation, but he and I both agree that political views aren't a matter of salvation.

Well i agree that we are still in the world and we must live and work in the world...but we must seriously consider the degree of our involvement in it because Christ said that he took us out of the world. John 15:19 If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU.
And we would seriously need to take James words into consideration when it comes to how involved we get in the will of the nations ...it could just put our salvation in jeopardy.
James 4:4 Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God
of course im not telling you that you should not vote, that is a matter for your own conscience to decide. If your conscience is based on your knowledge of the scriptures, then that will be beneficial to your faith.

 

[FHII]

well im interesting to know why you think that not all christians are apostles or pastors or teachers. I mean, the Apostle Paul said that 'any' christian man could reach out for such privileges of service at 1Timothy 3:1
Do you think that the structure of most churches simply dont allow for all its members to be active in Gods service, or is it that you dont think all christians are qualified to serve?

Have a look at 1 Cor 12:27 through the rest of the chapter. The whole chapter makes the point, but specifically those verses. We are to be kings and priests, but in this life, we are in training for that.

Well i agree that we are still in the world and we must live and work in the world...but we must seriously consider the degree of our involvement in it because Christ said that he took us out of the world. John 15:19 If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU.
And we would seriously need to take James words into consideration when it comes to how involved we get in the will of the nations ...it could just put our salvation in jeopardy.
James 4:4 Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God
of course im not telling you that you should not vote, that is a matter for your own conscience to decide. If your conscience is based on your knowledge of the scriptures, then that will be beneficial to your faith.

I hate to bicker over Bible versions, but I go by the KJV, and it has a slightly different view of John 15:19. The difference is that the KJV says "of this world" instead of "part of this world". However, I'll concede to your version. I am not a friend to this world (society, that is.... God's world and what it'll be restored to is perfect), but I am bound in this world. I have to live in it, and get along in it. Following politics is more of a hobby and an interest in the flesh for me. Gov'ts can do what they want, but if allowed to have a say in it, I'll take that say.

In medeval times, if you went against the Gov't (which at the time was the Pope) you were going to suffer precussions. I would suffer such if needed. However, if I have a say....

Wouldn't you do the same? If politician A wanted to raise your taxes 5% and politician B wanted to reduce your taxes by 5%, thus effecting how much money you have to buy groceries, pay rent, etc... What would you decide on? Of course, a tax raise might be better for you in the long run, but you'd have to look at the circumstances. I don't get entangled in politics or anything else of this world. I could walk away given the opportunity.

Do you think that the structure of most churches simply dont allow for all its members to be active in Gods service, or is it that you dont think all christians are qualified to serve?

Wow! I missed this question! Look, I think just showing up to Church, participating in the praise, the dancing, the giving, the singing and hearing the Word preached IS being an active member! I would argue it's just as important as the leadership of the Church.

If there are special talents someone possesses, of course they should be used. Do I think "most churches" use them? Don't know.... I've been going to one Church that does use them for 10 years and that's how long I've been an active Church member. I know of no other system other than a sporatic attendance of a few churches.

 

[brionne]

Have a look at 1 Cor 12:27 through the rest of the chapter. The whole chapter makes the point, but specifically those verses. We are to be kings and priests, but in this life, we are in training for that.

i must read this passages differently because when i read it im prompted to view 'every member' of the church as one who should be taking an active role in the church. Pauls likens the members of the congregation to a 'body'...they all have a part to play. To some there is prophesying, to another the gift of tongues, to another the gift of interpretation etc etc and towards the end he says that 'every member' of the congregation is a member of Christs body even though some are more prominent then others, they are still all useful members.

Im also convinced that this is what it means because Paul wrote to the hebrew congregation 13:15 Through him let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name"
If we do not participate in the work of declaring the good news publicly, then we are not really making this much needed 'sacrifice of praise'

But i think this is as much the responsibility of those who are leading a church to ensure they are helping their flock to fulfill this requirement.

I hate to bicker over Bible versions, but I go by the KJV, and it has a slightly different view of John 15:19. The difference is that the KJV says "of this world" instead of "part of this world". However, I'll concede to your version. I am not a friend to this world (society, that is.... God's world and what it'll be restored to is perfect), but I am bound in this world. I have to live in it, and get along in it. Following politics is more of a hobby and an interest in the flesh for me. Gov'ts can do what they want, but if allowed to have a say in it, I'll take that say.

even in the KJV it says clearly that the world is not a friend of christians. So why would we as christians want to support the world in the very thing opposed to Gods rulership, namely politics?
[sup]19[/sup]If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

In medeval times, if you went against the Gov't (which at the time was the Pope) you were going to suffer precussions. I would suffer such if needed. However, if I have a say....

Wouldn't you do the same? If politician A wanted to raise your taxes 5% and politician B wanted to reduce your taxes by 5%, thus effecting how much money you have to buy groceries, pay rent, etc... What would you decide on? Of course, a tax raise might be better for you in the long run, but you'd have to look at the circumstances. I don't get entangled in politics or anything else of this world. I could walk away given the opportunity.

me personally, no.
The governments are ruling and they have to make the decisions on how to do that effectively. If raising taxes is required, then so be it. Even if I have to pay more, i may not like paying more, but I respect their right to make me pay more regardless of the circumstances.

Thats why i dont vote in politics...i prefer to remain neutral because, really, as a christian, i want Jesus to be our ruler and I know that eventually he will be our ruler. Whatever happens in the meantime is merely testament to the fact that mankind do not have the know how to govern the people of earth successfully. In some way, their rulership is providing the world with the evidence that human rulership is futile. Why would I want to be involved in that futility?

Wow! I missed this question! Look, I think just showing up to Church, participating in the praise, the dancing, the giving, the singing and hearing the Word preached IS being an active member! I would argue it's just as important as the leadership of the Church.

If there are special talents someone possesses, of course they should be used. Do I think "most churches" use them? Don't know.... I've been going to one Church that does use them for 10 years and that's how long I've been an active Church member. I know of no other system other than a sporatic attendance of a few churches.

meeting together and upbuilding each other is a very important aspect of our worship, i couldnt agree more.... but we should never miss the point of why we meet together. We learn so that we can in turn impart to others (non believers) the hope of the good news of the kingdom.

Matthew 24: [sup]19[/sup]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[sup]20[/sup]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 Peter 3:[sup]15[/sup]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Remember what Jesus said:
Matthew 5: [sup]14[/sup]Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
[sup]16[/sup]Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
We cant shine our 'light' if we are only doing so in our church among believers... we must shine our light on 'non believers' so that they may "see your good works and glorify your Father" ...that is the purpose of meeting together.

 

[FHII]

i must read this passages differently because when i read it im prompted to view 'every member' of the church as one who should be taking an active role in the church. Pauls likens the members of the congregation to a 'body'...they all have a part to play. To some there is prophesying, to another the gift of tongues, to another the gift of interpretation etc etc and towards the end he says that 'every member' of the congregation is a member of Christs body even though some are more prominent then others, they are still all useful members.

Im also convinced that this is what it means because Paul wrote to the hebrew congregation 13:15 Through him let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name"
If we do not participate in the work of declaring the good news publicly, then we are not really making this much needed 'sacrifice of praise'

But i think this is as much the responsibility of those who are leading a church to ensure they are helping their flock to fulfill this requirement.

Even the way you are reading it the message is still the same. Yes, every member should have an active role. For some (not all) that role is prophecy. For some (not all) there is the gift of tongues. When Paul asked those questions (Are all apostles? Are all prophets? etc) it was a rhetorical question. The answer is no, not all are. Some are, though. And like my point in the second post yesterday, some have the roll of listening and attending and hearing the Word preached.

Thats why i dont vote in politics...i prefer to remain neutral because, really, as a christian, i want Jesus to be our ruler and I know that eventually he will be our ruler. Whatever happens in the meantime is merely testament to the fact that mankind do not have the know how to govern the people of earth successfully. In some way, their rulership is providing the world with the evidence that human rulership is futile. Why would I want to be involved in that futility?

Well, we are involved because we are here. That requires involvement to at least some degree. It's fine that you don't vote and I really do understand the reason why. Luke 19:13 is a parable in which Jesus says, "Occupy till I come." That's what we are doing by being in this physical life.

meeting together and upbuilding each other is a very important aspect of our worship, i couldnt agree more.... but we should never miss the point of why we meet together. We learn so that we can in turn impart to others (non believers) the hope of the good news of the kingdom.

Matthew 24: [sup]19[/sup]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[sup]20[/sup]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 Peter 3:[sup]15[/sup]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:



[sup]16[/sup]Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
We cant shine our 'light' if we are only doing so in our church among believers... we must shine our light on 'non believers' so that they may "see your good works and glorify your Father" ...that is the purpose of meeting together.

I agree.

 

[Nathantaurus90]

Jesus said in John 13:35;
''By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

I believe Christians should also take Jesus's advice to stay neutral in Politics
and Wars;

John 17:16:
''They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.''

Matthew 26:52 >>

New International Version (©1984)
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.''