I've actually spoken with people who were paid a lot of money to help Benny Hinn perpetrate his fraud.StanJ said:
SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT?
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Are your tongues regular human languages, like my friend who found herself speaking Hawaiian?StanJ said:
Word of Knowledge....I've heard of that. How does it work?
Wisdom? I guess these gifts must come and go, eh?
I believe that I have been given discernment. And I believe my writing is a gift, as well, but I'm not sure if there is a name for that one.
I'm not a Pentecostal, and I do not believe in the so-called "charismatic movement"...but I do believe that the Holy Spirit is still bestowing gifts on God's people.
I also believe that when God gives a gift, Satan tries to come up with a phony. There are an awful lot of phonies about....be careful!
No, hence the need to be accompanied by an interpretation. Tongues mean a language never before used or heard on earth.The Barrd said:Are your tongues regular human languages, like my friend who found herself speaking Hawaiian?
Word of Knowledge....I've heard of that. How does it work?
Wisdom? I guess these gifts must come and go, eh?
I believe that I have been given discernment. And I believe my writing is a gift, as well, but I'm not sure if there is a name for that one.
I'm not a Pentecostal, and I do not believe in the so-called "charismatic movement"...but I do believe that the Holy Spirit is still bestowing gifts on God's people.
I also believe that when God gives a gift, Satan tries to come up with a phony. There are an awful lot of phonies about....be careful!
When you speak to an issue in someone's life that you were never told about or that they never told anyone about.
ALL gifts come and go as the Holy Spirit sees fit. They are meant for corporate worship and fellowship.
You may well have discernment, however that IMO is not a gift as taught by Paul, but indeed can be a gift from God just as any talent would be considered. I have been told I have the gift of gab.
The people in Corinth were not called Pentecostal, but did exercise those gifts. Labeling is not always a good thing. What you call the "Charismatic movement", actually started within the RCC, but has become adulterated by false teachers like Todd Bentley and Benny Hinn.
Yes indeed, the devil does appear to some as an angel of light, which is why we must ALWAYS test the spirits. He IS the father of lies.
Benny Hinn, IMO, will have a special place in God's realm of Eternal Punishment.The Barrd said:
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
The phrase “slain in the Spirit” was coined by theologians and pastors, they feel there is some kind of spiritual significance, especially in the Pentecostal congregation however, the opposite is true.
Being “slain in the Spirit” is equivalent to “calling fire from heaven” which MEANS to be under judgment.
Lu 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? (see, 2Ki 1:10-12).
Lu 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Satan cannot call fire from heaven. The underlined words is equivalent to falling backwards, (see 1Ki 18}.
Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
To God Be The Glory
Being “slain in the Spirit” is equivalent to “calling fire from heaven” which MEANS to be under judgment.
Lu 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? (see, 2Ki 1:10-12).
Lu 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Satan cannot call fire from heaven. The underlined words is equivalent to falling backwards, (see 1Ki 18}.
Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
To God Be The Glory
Yes, it indeed came out of the Holiness movement Jun2u, but it did NOT come from these scriptures you quote.
It came from becoming prostrate in God's presence. Sadly it was misused and abused by those who do everything else in the flesh.
It came from becoming prostrate in God's presence. Sadly it was misused and abused by those who do everything else in the flesh.
Born_Again
Well-Known Member
Yea, I gotta agree with Stan on this one, Jun. What you quote and what slain in the spirit mean are two completely different things. Think about it. If someone is wiggling around on the floor being "Slain in the Spirit" they aren't exactly being judged at that moment.StanJ said:
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
Born_Again said:
I suppose people have many different ways to interpret scriptures. I follow the rules set forth in Mr 4:34 that God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritual meaning and this makes the Bible a story book.
Mr 4:11-12 reads: And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
This was also the method of interpretation followed by Origin who lived in the first or second century, and unfortunately, after 400 years of his death his followers changed many of his methods of interpretation because of misunderstanding of scriptures.
I find that using the method of interpretation set above I get many more understanding of the deeper meanings of scriptures..
You may agree with others but consensus does not make things to be true and we see this in the story of Elijah (who was alone) against the fifty Baal worshipers. We know who prevailed.
One either EXEGETES scripture, or one EISEGETES it.Jun2u said:
Mark 4:34 and Matt 13:34, is about that one crowd on that one day. It not what Jesus did ALL the time, unless you only read parables in the gospel?
Consensus IS indeed how we learn God's word, and comparing modern Christianity to Baal worship doesn't hold ANY water.
I think anyone with half a brain cell would know that being "slain in the spirit" is as phony as a two dollar bill.
It certainly isn't Biblical.
It certainly isn't Biblical.
Ummm......"wiggling around on the floor"?Born_Again said:
Honestly, do you see Jesus, or any of His Apostles touching someone, and they fall over backward and get to "wiggling around on the floor"?
I don't think so.
Holy laughter, Drunk in the Spirit, etc.....none of these are Biblical.
Where ever they originated, they do not come from God.
Born_Again
Well-Known Member
Well, I have seem them wiggling around on the floor like an epileptic. I don't believe anything is really happening to them. I think they are just going with the moment and feeling what they want to feel. I have never personally had the urge to drop to the floor and convulse.The Barrd said:
The spirt of the prophet is subject to the prophet. 1 Cor 14:32.
This doesn't mean it can't happen, it means it's up to us HOW it happens. If we were to always use bad examples to live our lives, many would never have been saved.
One's personal experience in the Holy Spirit cannot be understood by human comprehension, as most things of God. We do it in the Spirit, and not everybody is the same.
The only thing the NT shows us about the baptism of the Holy Spirit is that it comes with speaking in tongues as an initial evidence. Just like most things, the NT does NOT go into blow by blow descriptions of a church service unless it was OUT of order like Paul addressed in 1 Cor 12 & 14
If one has never experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, then one CANNOT say what is right or wrong.
This doesn't mean it can't happen, it means it's up to us HOW it happens. If we were to always use bad examples to live our lives, many would never have been saved.
One's personal experience in the Holy Spirit cannot be understood by human comprehension, as most things of God. We do it in the Spirit, and not everybody is the same.
The only thing the NT shows us about the baptism of the Holy Spirit is that it comes with speaking in tongues as an initial evidence. Just like most things, the NT does NOT go into blow by blow descriptions of a church service unless it was OUT of order like Paul addressed in 1 Cor 12 & 14
If one has never experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, then one CANNOT say what is right or wrong.
I've seen it, too.Born_Again said:
But there is nothing in the Bible like that at all. You never see Jesus touching someone and they fall on the floor and start wiggling around.
Jesus never needed "catchers".
He seems to be lifting people up, not knocking them out.
He also doesn't seem to have ever affected people with "holy laughter", nor did He make anyone "drunk in the Spirit", or any other such thing.
It's all fake. An honest man or woman isn't going to get the urge to drop. That might be why you have not felt the urge to do so.
As a former epileptic, I can tell you....what you are seeing is nothing at all like epilepsy.
I would like to share something with you.The Barrd said:
I have had holy laughter when I was first saved. I didn't know what it was at the time, but I can tell you that it was from God. I have also been slain in the spirit several times and can tell you that it was from God. Just because you may not believe it to be true, it doesn't mean that it isn't.
God Bless!
BA is not disagreeing with real experiences John3, he is just pointing out the issues of bad practises by some Pentecostals. I myself have never experienced Holy Laughter or being slain, but I do believe it can be legit. The problem is many of those type of services become very emotionally charged and CAN lead to emotional responses. The Holy Spirit is the one who decides what is manifested, but we still control what we do.John3 said:
With all due respect, and meaning no offense, I don't know you.John3 said:
But I do know my Bible. And there is no "holy laughter" or "slain in the spirit" in it's pages.
I grew up in upstate New York, not far from Buffalo. I know about "the Toronto Blessing".
Currently, I live in a small town in Alabama, not far from Pensacola, Florida. I actually know people who have been paid to help Benny Hinn put on his show.
Now, I don't know what is happening to you....but whatever it is, it is not Biblical. I have serious doubts that the Holy Spirit is doing anything that God did not authorize.
Again, I don't know you. You could be telling stories, although I doubt it. Or, you could be caught up in the emotion of the moment...kind of a "mass hysteria" thing. You could be convincing yourself....after all, that guy fell down, so God is really knocking people over...
But the likelihood that God is overpowering you is not real great. Jesus always lifts people up....He doesn't knock them over.
I can tell you that when I experienced these things it was in a very small group setting of under 10 people. This is not something that was made up as I got that saved that night and started laughing at almost everything. This was not a normal laugh it was more of a spiritual laugh kind of like the Holy Spirit is inside of me now devil and this person is now saved. I can tell you for sure that it was from God. You need to be more open to the deep things of God instead of saying that it is not true and using some past experiences/stories as though it is not of God.The Barrd said:
I wouldn't worry about Barrd's opinion. She does NOT know the Bible as she likes to think she does. Your personal experience was very likely a real one caused by the Holy Spirit over flowing your spirit. Barrd has a very real bias against Pentecostals.John3 said:
You obviously don't get what is written in John 21:25? The Bible contains ALL we need, NOT everything ever.The Barrd said:
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