Smoke Screens?

[justbyfaith]

I don't ignore any scripture.

Jesus did not teach us that God is to be feared.

To these two statements, I respond:

Please read the following passages:

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

If you want to identify the fear that is spoken of as reverence/respect, that is fine and dandy; however, such a fear as what you speak of may not serve to keep a person in the kingdom when they desire to walk away.

The following kind of fear, however, will:

2Co 5:11, Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
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Mat 10:28, And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luk 12:5, But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

I suggest that you take the time to read the scriptures that I have quoted above; because I think that you are ignoring them in the formulation of your theology.

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Do YOU believe God created evil/darkness/calamity?

I have answered this before. Yes, I believe that He did so indirectly, in that He created His creation with the capacity for free will.

 

[GodsGrace]

To these two statements, I respond:

I suggest that you take the time to read the scriptures that I have quoted above; because I think that you are ignoring them in the formulation of your theology.

I have answered this before. Yes, I believe that He did so indirectly, in that He created His creation with the capacity for free will.

I agree that God created us with free will.
This free will He gave us is not the cause of evil...not even in an indirect way.
Evil existed BEFORE man was given a choice.

Regarding fear of God: I have nothing further to say.
I'm not here to argue about biblical matters UNLESS they have to do with salvation (soteriology).

If you want to believe that God wants us to fear him...you're free to do so.
No problem.

 

[justbyfaith]

Evil existed BEFORE man was given a choice.

Please elaborate on this. What are your biblical reasons for believing such a thing?

Oh wait...I think you are saying that there was satan before man; and that he was evil.

But I would say to that, that satan was evil because of the free will that God had given him.

So then, free will (and evil) did not originate with man; and yet evil originated as the result of free will, because satan's rebellion was the result of free will; which God gave to him as a positive thing: which nevertheless turned out for evil. God knew that it would. As the Holy Ghost, He had already been through the Cross as the payment for mankind's sin.

Regarding fear of God: I have nothing further to say.

Then I will pray for you that you come to a biblical knowledge of the truth of the matter. Get 'er Holy Ghost.

 

[GodsGrace]

Please elaborate on this. What are your biblical reasons for believing such a thing?

Oh wait...I think you are saying that there was satan before man; and that he was evil.

But I would say to that, that satan was evil because of the free will that God had given him.

So then, free will (and evil) did not originate with man; and yet evil originated as the result of free will, because satan's rebellion was the result of free will; which God gave to him as a positive thing: which nevertheless turned out for evil. God knew that it would. As the Holy Ghost, He had already been through the Cross as the payment for mankind's sin.



Then I will pray for you that you come to a biblical knowledge of the truth of the matter. Get 'er Holy Ghost.

LOL
What? You won't be happy till I'm afraid of God?
I'm afraid of satan...I understand the power he has...he's the Prince of the Air.
IOW, he's the prince of the earth and we're on HIS territory.

Right about satan. He came before man and he CHOSE to abandon God.
So he had free will.
But free will to choose WHAT?
Biblical free will means the choice to choose between two choices...moral choices.

So when satan CHOSE to reject God and go our on his own....
and we can call that rejection evil, right?

So where did THAT evil come from?
It's a rhetorical question JBF...I don't really expect you to answer it.
Just something to think about.

 

[justbyfaith]

So where did THAT evil come from?
It's a rhetorical question JBF...I don't really expect you to answer it.

I'll answer it anyway....it didn't come from God (directly).

It came out of the inherent problem of free will (in being able to choose between good and evil)...that if you can choose, you can choose one way or the other.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

There was a friend of mine who said that he discovered the fear of the Lord when he realized how much God could mess with his life.

I look at it this way. God is faithful, and He is my Father. He will not relent, but He Will conform me to the image of Christ.

I have a deep respect for God's hammer and anvil!

Much love!
Mark

I was kind of like your friend. I was way too bold with God from needing to learn fear. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. It wasn't until I began to see that He loved me so much that He would literally strip everything from me to have me and keep me safe, that I began to fear Him.

His love is a frightening love because it's so fierce. He will do whatever is necessary to make a man broken, in order to have the man.

 

[justbyfaith]

What? You won't be happy till I'm afraid of God?

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge (Psalms 111:10, Proverbs 1:7).

And also, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom (Job 28:28).

 

[marks]

I was kind of like your friend. I was way too bold with God from needing to learn fear. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. It wasn't until I began to see that He loved me so much that He would literally strip everything from me to have me and keep me safe, that I began to fear Him.

His love is a frightening love because it's so fierce. He will do whatever is necessary to make a man broken, in order to have the man.

I find His love comforting, knowing that He is completely and eternally faithful. Yes, He can rock my world, and in fact He has. Stripping away our flesh life never seems to be fun. But I want nothing more than that He would continue to strip away every last vestige, and this is what He wants, so we are in agreement.

Knowing that through difficulty and affliction is often how He does it, this is how we know our trials are our friends. Difficulty comes, and we know God is improving us.

I like the way you put it . . . seeing His love brings recognition of His intent. He is faithful, and He has promised.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

@stunnedbygrace said:
"I was kind of like your friend. I was way too bold with God from needing to learn fear. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. It wasn't until I began to see that He loved me so much that He would literally strip everything from me to have me and keep me safe, that I began to fear Him."
Took me some time too, to understand the "fear of The Lord" I know there is scripture pertaining to The Fear of The Lord as being a deterrent to sin...as He say's: "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Luke 12:5...
Proverbs 22:4 – "By humility and the fear of the Lord
are riches and honor and life.

7. Proverbs 16:6 – In mercy and truth atonement is provided for iniquity; And by the fear of the Lord one departs from evil.

8. Psalm 25:12 – 12 Who is the man that fears the Lord?
Him shall He teach in the way He chooses

...I no longer fear Satan as, I have the Holy Spirit living inside of me...as long as I invoke the Name Of Jesus and Know that God rebukes Satan..I am safe. No way would I ever be insane enough to dialog with Satan other than through the Holy Spirit and God Breathed Word! AMEN SISTAH!!! Lol.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I like it when you call me sister.

 

[marks]

here's one that speaks to me,

Proverbs 14:27 "The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death."

 

[Nancy]

I like it when you call me sister.

We DO have the same DNA

 

[Nancy]

We DO have the same DNA

God ha

here's one that speaks to me,

Proverbs 14:27 "The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death."

Awesome verse. Makes me think of a mother or father that drives the point home when their kids are in danger...running in the street...strangers...pools...ANYTHING, lol. The child will get chastised by their mom or dad for doing these things so, yes...fear The Lord as His wisdom and chastisement are ONLY for our good and His will. He always has our best if we walk in His statutes!
Hallelujah
!

 

[GodsGrace]

I'll answer it anyway....it didn't come from God (directly).

It came out of the inherent problem of free will (in being able to choose between good and evil)...that if you can choose, you can choose one way or the other.

That's not an answer.
But let's let it go,,,really.

There is NO problem with free will.
(the problem is that evil exists)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Yes, it's a rather mixed up theology.

Let me improve, Since God predestined EVERYTHING Calvinist's have only themselves to blame, not God, whom they know they can never blame. Free will worshippers will never blame themselves, so they pass their bucket to the Calvinists' God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Let me improve, Since God predestined EVERYTHING Calvinist's have only themselves to blame, not God, whom they know they can never blame. Free will worshippers will never blame themselves, so they pass their bucket to the Calvinists' God.

OK GE,,,,I've already had my coffee AND lunch...
but I still can't understand what you're saying.

IF GOD predestined everything...then HE IS to blame.
Free will worshipers have ONLY THEMSELVES to blame.

Is this what you're saying?
Anyway, that's what I believe to be true.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

It's the second time we discovered that we actually agreed while we disagreed. Funny I think

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No, I dislike funny things...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh yeah, funny things are the worst, huh!?

 

[Nancy]

Oh yeah, funny things are the worst, huh!?

Well, a good belly laugh does the soul good. All in CLEAN fun!!!!! I never cared for the worldly innuendos, double entendres. Not even when I was IN the world...give me Steve Martin anyday, lol...not to mention all the Christian Comedians...they are FUNNY! Oh well, some people just have NO sense of humor God can be Glorified in many, many ways...IMHO