It is kind of hard to read past your 3,000 quotes you put around things... not sure if it's for emphasis, you have a broken keyboard or a poor job of cutting and pasting...
So , How were OT Saints saved ?
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ONE WAY.
AND THAT IS NOT BY MAN'S WISDOM.
THAT ONE WAY IS GOD'S WISDOM BORN OF GOD'S LOVE.
AND ARE WE NOT GRATEFUL?
ALL DIED IN ADAM (NOT BECAUSE OUR BODIES WERE DOOMED TO BE CORRUPT BY SHEAR VIRTUE OF ADAM'S SIN) BECAUSE GOD HAD EVERY RIGHT TO END ADAM'S LIFE RIGHT THEN AND THERE.
WHY THEN DID GOD NOT INSTANTLY COMPLETE THE PUNISHMENT UPON ADAM THAT ADAM DESERVED?
IDENTIFY THAT AND YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED THE ONE THING THAT FROM THE BEGINNING HAS ALLOWED ANYONE OF US IN ANY GENERATION AT ANY TIME TO BE SAVED.
THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. :lol:
AND THAT IS NOT BY MAN'S WISDOM.
THAT ONE WAY IS GOD'S WISDOM BORN OF GOD'S LOVE.
AND ARE WE NOT GRATEFUL?
ALL DIED IN ADAM (NOT BECAUSE OUR BODIES WERE DOOMED TO BE CORRUPT BY SHEAR VIRTUE OF ADAM'S SIN) BECAUSE GOD HAD EVERY RIGHT TO END ADAM'S LIFE RIGHT THEN AND THERE.
WHY THEN DID GOD NOT INSTANTLY COMPLETE THE PUNISHMENT UPON ADAM THAT ADAM DESERVED?
IDENTIFY THAT AND YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED THE ONE THING THAT FROM THE BEGINNING HAS ALLOWED ANYONE OF US IN ANY GENERATION AT ANY TIME TO BE SAVED.
THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. :lol:
People should really read their Bibles........ALL OF IT!
Galations 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Romans 8:9-11 [sup]9[/sup] You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. [sup]10[/sup] But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[sup][a][/sup] because of righteousness.
Col 1:27 [sup]27[/sup] To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
It was actually a request for clarification but if your skin is that thin so be it.
Prentis
New Member
No wonder, Richard, that you don't believe in overcoming sin, because it is indeed impossible apart from being crucified and raised with Christ, that he would live through us.
But hey, you don't believe in that either! ;)
The gospel centers around this power, this grace, made available to man, by which he might become one with Christ, and thus one with the Father, having fellowship in the Spirit with them. Thus those who walk in the light and in love of the brethren are cleansed.
Paul makes this clear, saying that by Christ he is FREED from the law of sin and death... And can actually walk by the law of the Spirit and life, ie, living by the Spirit and thus reaping life.
Anything short of this is a counter gospel that seeks to find another way to God, apart from walking by his Spirit.
But hey, you don't believe in that either! ;)
The gospel centers around this power, this grace, made available to man, by which he might become one with Christ, and thus one with the Father, having fellowship in the Spirit with them. Thus those who walk in the light and in love of the brethren are cleansed.
Paul makes this clear, saying that by Christ he is FREED from the law of sin and death... And can actually walk by the law of the Spirit and life, ie, living by the Spirit and thus reaping life.
Anything short of this is a counter gospel that seeks to find another way to God, apart from walking by his Spirit.
goodshepard55
New Member
Why oh why can't people just be nice and not say rude things back to people? Why can't we just ignore and not answer a post if we do not have nice things to say or can't show scriptures to point to our opinions? We all have them you know opinions...that is the very reason I do not post so much here, because someone has got to be rude..it never fails...in all post I have read ...someone is rude...off my high horse now....Aspen your post are spot on...by faith the OT Saints were saved...
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Okay then try this.
[sup]10[/sup] But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[sup][a][/sup] because of righteousness. (not man's righteousness/ nor does it mean the body is made perfect since it says the body is subject to death)
If you place your belief, faith, trust and confidence IN CHRIST then the knowledge of Christ is in your heart.
If you place your belief, faith, trust and confidence IN CHRIST then Christ is in you Spiritually through faith (trust).
If you place your belief, faith, trust and confidence IN CHRIST then Christ is your hope of glory,
Faith is seeing things through spiritual eyes.
But it seem to me that you are not set free from the law of sin and death because you still think you have to do something to be set free.
We have a different idea of what is meant by walking in the Spirit. To you it is trying not to sin by what you do. To me it is walking in the knowledge that Jesus' blood covers all my sins of the flesh. IMHO your faith is in your works of the flesh. Mine is in Jesus' work on the cross.
You are absolutely correct when you say I do not believe in overcoming my sinful nature by my works. I overcome it by placing my belief, faith, trust and confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross; in His shed blood that has reconciled this sinful man to God. Since I truely believe this then Christ has indeed freed me from the law of sin and death. Since Jesus Christ has freed me from the law of sin and death I no longer have to worry about it. I live by the Spirit that has Spiritually set me free from this body of death and since I am free from it I no longer live in my sinful body, I live in the Spirit (by faith).
Most can not see that they are living in a body of sin and therefore they can not be set free from it. Romans 7 clearly shows that there are TWO natures in the child of God and that they struggle with one other. Many can't see this and therefore can not experience new life in Christ, they can only see themselves as ONE. -- Therefore IMHO they have not been born again by the Spirit of God.
Richard says: “We have a different idea of what is meant by walking in the Spirit. To you it is trying not to sin by what you do. To me it is walking in the knowledge that Jesus' blood covers all my sins of the flesh. IMHO your faith is in your works of the flesh. Mine is in Jesus' work on the cross.”
Richard ignores: Hebrews 12:4 “Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.”
And now Richard is (" ") that I said this. :lol:
Richard ignores: Hebrews 12:4 “Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.”
And now Richard is (" ") that I said this. :lol:
how were old testament people saved?
richardburger had the right idea. there is a little misrepresentation of meaning that happens which is what we should be here to discuss and not the knocking down of each other. now i don't have much scripture at this time but should someone need it i can provide it for them. here are 2 verses that were used previously so lets look at them.
We see that Jesus went from the cross to be three days in the heart of the earth.
Matt 12:40
40 "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(NKJ)
Jesus went to hell not paradise when he died because of the sin he took upon himself at the cross.
We see what he did while He was there.
1 Pet 3:19
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
(NKJ) -----
Jesus preached to everyone both in hell and in paradise in order to choose salvation or not. in the old testament they offered sacrifices to God that their sins may be covered. when i say covered i do not mean forgiven. that is why when they died that they went to hell. in order for the people to go to heaven there had to be someone to die for their sins. that is why those that trusted in God were separated from the others. but they could not enter heaven with the Father because of their sin so until someone died for their sins to cleanse them they had to stay within the earth. Then with the coming of Jesus he became our sacrifice which cleansed us. now hell at that time was broken up into 2 separate areas in the earth. you had paradise and the fire and brimstone part of hell. now Jesus preached to both sides while he was there. we know those in paradise went to heaven but it does not say how many from hell received what he was offering. it would of been unjust for the Lord not to of given everyone the chance to go to heaven. hope this helps.
upon further study richardburger was right because you asked about old testament saints and not everyone in the old testament that i explained about. scriptures can be given to back up what is said upon request.
vengle you want to learn that is good but walking in the knowledge that Jesus' blood covers all my sins of the flesh is salvation and not walking in the spirit. to put it simply walking in the spirit is being obedient and doing the will of God.
richardburger had the right idea. there is a little misrepresentation of meaning that happens which is what we should be here to discuss and not the knocking down of each other. now i don't have much scripture at this time but should someone need it i can provide it for them. here are 2 verses that were used previously so lets look at them.
We see that Jesus went from the cross to be three days in the heart of the earth.
Matt 12:40
40 "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(NKJ)
Jesus went to hell not paradise when he died because of the sin he took upon himself at the cross.
We see what he did while He was there.
1 Pet 3:19
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
(NKJ) -----
Jesus preached to everyone both in hell and in paradise in order to choose salvation or not. in the old testament they offered sacrifices to God that their sins may be covered. when i say covered i do not mean forgiven. that is why when they died that they went to hell. in order for the people to go to heaven there had to be someone to die for their sins. that is why those that trusted in God were separated from the others. but they could not enter heaven with the Father because of their sin so until someone died for their sins to cleanse them they had to stay within the earth. Then with the coming of Jesus he became our sacrifice which cleansed us. now hell at that time was broken up into 2 separate areas in the earth. you had paradise and the fire and brimstone part of hell. now Jesus preached to both sides while he was there. we know those in paradise went to heaven but it does not say how many from hell received what he was offering. it would of been unjust for the Lord not to of given everyone the chance to go to heaven. hope this helps.
upon further study richardburger was right because you asked about old testament saints and not everyone in the old testament that i explained about. scriptures can be given to back up what is said upon request.
vengle you want to learn that is good but walking in the knowledge that Jesus' blood covers all my sins of the flesh is salvation and not walking in the spirit. to put it simply walking in the spirit is being obedient and doing the will of God.
They have no ability to see, Prentis.
They could read 2 Corinthians chapter 6 or anything in the scriptures all day long and they will see nothing but what they believe.
We also believe in walking in the knowledge that Jesus' blood covers all our sins of the flesh, don't we Prentis?
We also see that "walking' involves some sort of action, isn't that right?
And we have sought to determine accurately what that action is, is that not also right?
We are not stuck in only believing that Jesus' blood covers all our sins, we appreciate why and what it means we must now do in imitation of Christ's example to us.
Hebrews 12:4 “Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.”
What kind of bride it would it be that does not walk with her husband as he walks?
They could read 2 Corinthians chapter 6 or anything in the scriptures all day long and they will see nothing but what they believe.
We also believe in walking in the knowledge that Jesus' blood covers all our sins of the flesh, don't we Prentis?
We also see that "walking' involves some sort of action, isn't that right?
And we have sought to determine accurately what that action is, is that not also right?
We are not stuck in only believing that Jesus' blood covers all our sins, we appreciate why and what it means we must now do in imitation of Christ's example to us.
Hebrews 12:4 “Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.”
What kind of bride it would it be that does not walk with her husband as he walks?
Just do a word search on the word "grace" and see all the examples we are given in the OT to teach us how to find grace.
Then perhaps you will be able to see clearly that those of Hebrews 11 all sought that grace of God.
But you won't do that if you are set on believing what you prefer to believe.
You have this idea that because God's grace is a free gift that this means you need do nothing to receive it.
You nullify much scripture with that belief.
I suggest that you search for God while he may yet be found else your free gift will flee from you.
It is only free in that nothing He requires of us could have ever earned it apart from his love providing us the opportunity. For he very justly could have destroyed us all when Adam sinned and never blinked His eye.
Andrey son of Lion
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How I know from explaining of our Orthodox Church, all righteousness before Christ were in hell, excepting Enoch and Elia (who were brought into the heaven alive) and waited there Redeemer.
Jesus Christ after His death went down in hell and gathered there all righteousness and lift many of them on the earth.
"And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which were slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many" (St.Mattew 27,52-53) I think and sure, then a big part of dead saints, who died many ages ago, was lifted by Christ straight in the heavens.
Jesus Christ after His death went down in hell and gathered there all righteousness and lift many of them on the earth.
"And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which were slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many" (St.Mattew 27,52-53) I think and sure, then a big part of dead saints, who died many ages ago, was lifted by Christ straight in the heavens.
You are a thinker and that is good.
I would like to encourage to ponder how spiritually the following scriptures are related to what you have just brought into focus:
Ephesians 2:1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;"
Ephesians 2:5 "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)"
John 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"
And now see how the ransom provided by Christ is so precious in the eyes of the Father that the Father credited it all the way back to the beginning so as to even recognize faith as righteousness:
Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Ponder this. Meditate on it as you comb your Bible and other scriptures connected to it will begin to stand out like glowing little pearls of precious truth. And the way you see it will then keep growing ever fuller.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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