So than who can be saved

[mjrhealth]

[SIZE=11pt]Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]So than, who can be saved?? According to the NoN OSAS followers, no one can, according to them it is impossible for anyone to be saved, and even to the point of denying their own. Who would have thought such a thing.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Here is the dilemma, according to the Non OSAS , you may start your walk but somewhere along the line you will sin, fall away, loose your love as one keeps persisting and therefore reject Christ and your salvation and as the bible says.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]So according to them it is impossible for God to save anyone even them So what is it they believe in??[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I guess it is a good thing some do believe God and are saved, not because of them but because of the works of Christ and the power of God, which the Non OSAS deny.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]How is it that those who are supposed to be showing the world the love and power of God , deny the very same themselves??[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]In all His love[/SIZE]

 

[heretoeternity]

Rev 14...salvation is for those who "have the testimony of Jesus, and follow the commandments of God"

 

[ATP]

Rev 14...salvation is for those who "have the testimony of Jesus, and follow the commandments of God"

That's right hereto, because the seed of God remains in them 1 John 3:9 NIV. The testimony is shown through belief, and through belief results in eternal life...

1 John 5:9-14 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

[SIZE=11pt]Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]So than, who can be saved?? According to the NoN OSAS followers, no one can, according to them it is impossible for anyone to be saved, and even to the point of denying their own. Who would have thought such a thing.[/SIZE]

This is a really good point. We are "saved" and justified only once Rom 10:9-10 NIV.

[SIZE=11pt]Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.[/SIZE]

And the repentance spoken of here comes from the law and sacrifice of animals Heb 6:1 NIV. We also see that believers cannot crucify the Son over and over because the Son died for all sins once and for all...

Heb 6:6 NIV and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Heb 10:10-12 NIV And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

Heb 10:26 NIV If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left.

How can there be no sacrifice for sins left when the body of Jesus was the one time sacrifice for sins..Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV.

[SIZE=11pt]How is it that those who are supposed to be showing the world the love and power of God , deny the very same themselves??[/SIZE]

Praying ~

 

[mjrhealth]

Rev 14...salvation is for those who "have the testimony of Jesus, and follow the commandments of God"

Yes these two,

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Its all about love, not God beating mankind into submission an some would suppose.

In all His Love

 

[Wormwood]

mjhealth,

This is only indicative of your own preconceptions and misunderstandings of the non-osas position. This is nothing more than a straw-man. There are brilliant non-osas people out there (and osas people) and posts like this are just unfair characterizations that certainly do not accurately reflect non-osas thinking on the subject.

 

[tom55]

[SIZE=11pt]Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]So than, who can be saved?? According to the NoN OSAS followers, no one can, according to them it is impossible for anyone to be saved, and even to the point of denying their own. Who would have thought such a thing.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]To put the scripture you have quoted into full context one should read on: Peter then said to Jesus "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?” Jesus then said to them "......you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel..."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] So according to the scripture (you didn't fully quote) we have to follow Him to be saved. It says nothing about being OSAS!! Why didn't you fully quote that passage?[/SIZE]



[SIZE=11pt]Here is the dilemma, according to the Non OSAS , you may start your walk but somewhere along the line you will sin, fall away, loose your love as one keeps persisting and therefore reject Christ and your salvation and as the bible says.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]So according to them it is impossible for God to save anyone even them So what is it they believe in??[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Once again you didn't fully quote scripture and did not put that passage in context. So the answer to your question..."what is it they believe in??". We believe in reading all of scripture, in context, to find the answers we seek.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]How is it that those who are supposed to be showing the world the love and power of God , deny the very same themselves??[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Once again you didn't fully quote scripture and did not put it in context. In full context (starting with Heb 2:1) it is saying we should heed (follow) what we have been taught and the teaching that God spoke (thru angels) was shown to be true. And every time his people did something against that teaching, they were punished for what they did or they were punished when they did not obey that teaching. What you quoted (Heb2:3) means: How are we going to escape this punishment if we ignore such a great salvation or teaching? It was first spoken by Jesus and confirmed by those that heard Him. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]And to put it in full context we can't leave out Heb 2:4 which says God vouched for or bared witness their message with signs, amazing things, various miracles, and gifts from the Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Once again what you have (not fully) quoted has nothing to do with OSAS!! What you have done is fulfilled 2 Peter 3:16[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]respectfully....Tom55[/SIZE]

 

[StanJ]

[SIZE=11pt]I guess it is a good thing some do believe God and are saved, not because of them but because of the works of Christ and the power of God, which the Non OSAS deny.[/SIZE]

Most of the assertions in your post here are not TRULY representative of those who do not accept OSAS. You use language that is full of hyperbolic absolutes, that do NOT apply to this issue. Hence, you show you are NOT willing to discuss the issue, but only use bombastic language to try and force your POV. Sorry...that DOESN'T work.

 

[KingJ]

[SIZE=11pt]So according to them it is impossible for God to save anyone even them So what is it they believe in??[/SIZE]

Judging ourselves to be in Christ?

Salvation is a plane that takes us from the airport to heaven. Nobody can build this plane. It is a gift from God to those that love Him. The issue centres 100% on how we determine whether or not we do in fact love Him. So i see little point discussing the plane. Yes we have nothing to do with it. But we have everything to do with getting to the airport. We need to focus on that discussion.

Many think they love Jesus because they have the emotions. Because they repeated magical lines claiming to believe in Jesus. Or because they think they have faith.

Rom 12:9 is crystal clear on what genuine love is. Hate what is evil and cling to what is good. Add to this Pau's warning in Phil 2:12 to continue to work out our salvation in fear and trembling...and we can certainly forgive / completely understand many choosing to hold to a non OSAS point of view. Nobody is attempting to play God. Only God is able to judge heart and mind at the level needed to come close to making an OSAS statement on any person Jer 17:10.

So it is simply sad to see those who boldly claim they are saved and yet their fruits / hatred for what is evil reveal otherwise.

You and I lie to ourselves daily!

[SIZE=11pt]I guess it is a good thing some do believe God and are saved, not because of them but because of the works of Christ and the power of God, which the Non OSAS deny[/SIZE]

You think you are saved because you believe God?

 

[KingJ]

The cross is not a free lottery ticket available to those who take advantage of it. It is a gift from God to those that love Him.

 

[ATP]

The cross is not a free lottery ticket available to those who take advantage of it. It is a gift from God to those that love Him.

1 John 3:9 NIV No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[ATP]

You think you are saved because you believe God?

Yes.

John 3:14-16 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54 NIV Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

Tit 1:1-3 NIV Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, 3and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,

Heb 9:12 NIV He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

1 John 5:9-14 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[mjrhealth]

You think you are saved because you believe God?

No, I know I am saved because Jesus is teh author and finisher of my faith, and Guess what I believe Him., if you dont believe God, than who do you believe??

 

[mjrhealth]

Judging ourselves to be in Christ?

Salvation is a plane that takes us from the airport to heaven. Nobody can build this plane. It is a gift from God to those that love Him. The issue centres 100% on how we determine whether or not we do in fact love Him. So i see little point discussing the plane. Yes we have nothing to do with it. But we have everything to do with getting to the airport. We need to focus on that discussion.

Many think they love Jesus because they have the emotions. Because they repeated magical lines claiming to believe in Jesus. Or because they think they have faith.

Rom 12:9 is crystal clear on what genuine love is. Hate what is evil and cling to what is good. Add to this Pau's warning in Phil 2:12 to continue to work out our salvation in fear and trembling...and we can certainly forgive / completely understand many choosing to hold to a non OSAS point of view. Nobody is attempting to play God. Only God is able to judge heart and mind at the level needed to come close to making an OSAS statement on any person Jer 17:10.

So it is simply sad to see those who boldly claim they are saved and yet their fruits / hatred for what is evil reveal otherwise.

You and I lie to ourselves daily!

See but you dont know where I come from. Most that I know who do know Christ would never put there testimony on a christian forum for christians would tear them apart with all there unbelief. Still struggling to find christans who believe God, is it that hard or has the deception so great.??

in all His Love

 

[Loretta]

Romans 8:1 [SIZE=12pt]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.[/SIZE]
Romans 10:9 That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

In fact, the question has troubled me for a long time that how to be saved. W[SIZE=12pt]hat is “being saved”? What does man’s truly “being saved” mean? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]But I still living in the condition of repeatedly committing sins by day and confessing them by night.[/SIZE]

Hebrews 12:14 “…and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.”

[SIZE=12pt]I really don't know....... [/SIZE]
Maybe I need pray to [SIZE=12pt]seek God’s purpose [/SIZE]

 

[KingJ]

Yes.

John 3:14-16 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54 NIV Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

Tit 1:1-3 NIV Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, 3and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,

Heb 9:12 NIV He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

1 John 5:9-14 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

The statement was ''you think you are saved because you believe God''. The only related verse is James 2:19.

As for all the scripture you have quoted on believing. It is good but it has to all be read int he context of 1 Cor 12:3. '''we can say Jesus is Lord by the Holy Spirit''. Meaning believing Jesus is Lord is a revelation we receive. Much like Peter did in Matt 16:16-17. Now we know that God only comes in / give us a revelation of Jesus when we...come to Him on His terms Psalm 51:17, Rom 12:9, James 1:27.

I am not sure if you believe God does everything His side. It sounds to me like you are trying to push a Calvinistic viewpoint. I could be wrong. I have always mostly agreed with your posts ;).

 

[KingJ]

No, I know I am saved because Jesus is teh author and finisher of my faith, and Guess what I believe Him., if you dont believe God, than who do you believe??

I believe the working brain God gave me. It is able to excuse or condemn me. 1 Cor 11:31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.

 

[KingJ]

See but you dont know where I come from. Most that I know who do know Christ would never put there testimony on a christian forum for christians would tear them apart with all there unbelief. Still struggling to find christans who believe God, is it that hard or has the deception so great.??

in all His Love

I don't think anyone will mock your personal testimony. But we must learn not to take critisizm personally. On the matter of life vs death / eternal hell vs eternal heaven, nobody can put thier heads in the ground. We must be vigilant and scrutinize everything.

 

[FHII]

I don't think anyone will mock your personal testimony. But we must learn not to take critisizm personally. On the matter of life vs death / eternal hell vs eternal heaven, nobody can put thier heads in the ground. We must be vigilant and scrutinize everything.

It'd be wrong to criticize anyone's testimony, but I see where mjrhealth is coming from. People can be and are pretty nasty on boards. Even his often quoted, "still struggling to find Christians who believe God" is pretty rude. It seems he is saying no one here believes God.

But anyway, if there's something dear to your heart and you'd be offended if someone mocked or attacked it, don't post it.

 

[Jun2u]

Romans 8:1 [SIZE=12pt]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.[/SIZE]
Romans 10:9 That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

In fact, the question has troubled me for a long time that how to be saved. W[SIZE=12pt]hat is “being saved”? What does man’s truly “being saved” mean? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]But I still living in the condition of repeatedly committing sins by day and confessing them by night.[/SIZE]

Hebrews 12:14 “…and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.”

[SIZE=12pt]I really don't know....... [/SIZE]
Maybe I need pray to [SIZE=12pt]seek God’s purpose [/SIZE]

There is no formula by which we can be saved.

However, God gave an example how we might become saved through the Republican of Luke 18:38-39 where he cried:

38 And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
39 And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much the more, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
(Words in bold and underlined are for emphasis).

I believe this is the teaching of the Bible on how we might come to God for salvation. In fact, He

tells us not to be anxious but wait on Him.

Ps 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

Pr 20:22 Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee.

Concerning sin, Paul in Romans 7:19-25 said:

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Even after we have become saved our bodies still lusts after sin. But be of good cheer Jesus is victorious.

I hope this helped.

To God Be The Glory

 

[RLeighB96]

Just because you believe in God, does not mean you are saved. Satan believes in God, is he saved?

There is a difference between believing in God and believing God. Yes, there are a lot of people out there that believe in God. They accept what they call "intelligent design". That is not the same as believing God. Believing God has a will for you, believing that He is the one and only.

Matthews 7:21 . . .. “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."