So than who can be saved

[ATP]

Just because you believe in God, does not mean you are saved. Satan believes in God, is he saved?

There is a difference between believing in God and believing God. Yes, there are a lot of people out there that believe in God. They accept what they call "intelligent design". That is not the same as believing God. Believing God has a will for you, believing that He is the one and only.

Matthews 7:21 . . .. “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Of course RL. Demons do not believe Jesus is their Savior. Once you believe Jesus is Savior you then have eternal life..

Jesus died for past, present and future sins...Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Rom 8:38-39 ESV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-14 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV

There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

Once we believe, we have eternal life...John 3:14-16 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, John 6:54 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Rom 6:22-23 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV, Tit 1:1-3 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, 1 John 5:9-14 NIV

We are heirs to Christ...Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV

We have an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade...Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV

Overcoming and being victorious is based on belief, not works...John 16:33 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, Rom 8:35 NIV, Rom 8:37 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 2 Cor 2:14 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 John 2:13-14 NIV, 1 John 4:4 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

We are sealed until the day of redemption...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

The seed of God that is in us is imperishable...Matt 13:20-23 NIV, Luke 8:11 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV

The truth will be in us forever...Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV

And lastly, neither death nor life can separate us from the love of God...Rom 8:38-39 NIV, Rev 20:14 NIV.

 

[ATP]

Where in the NT does it say the Spirit of the Lord does this after resurrection?

1 Sam 16:14 NIV Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him.

 

[mjrhealth]

The cross is not a free lottery ticket available to those who take advantage of it. It is a gift from God to those that love Him.

No, its a free gift from God because He loves us, as foolish, arrogant and as proud as we are.

In all HisLove

 

[mjrhealth]

Even his often quoted, "still struggling to find Christians who believe God" is pretty rude. It seems he is saying no one here believes God.

I actually havnt found to many that will say they do. They say they believe the bible?? and yet here we all are arguing over the bible, is God the author of confusion.

 

[Wormwood]

mjrhealth,

The problem is that you assume that the confusion is coming from others, while you, on the other hand, are completely pure in your understanding. The reason "confusion" exists is not because God expects every believer to agree on everything (Rom. 14:1)...as if a "right" relationship leads to right or inerrant opinions, but because many Christians are carnal and lack Christlike humility. I think your struggle is not because people do not believe God, but because you believe godliness = agreement with you on every opinion and your lack of humility causes you to act as judge over those who disagree by determining they must not be believers (cf. Rom. 14:10).

 

[StanJ]

I actually havnt found to many that will say they do. They say they believe the bible?? and yet here we all are arguing over the bible, is God the author of confusion.

No, people are, as Paul clearly taught in 1 Cor 14, and believing the Bible is the first step in our walk of faith.

 

[OzSpen]

duplicate

 

[OzSpen]

[SIZE=11pt]Here is the dilemma, according to the Non OSAS , you may start your walk but somewhere along the line you will sin, fall away, loose your love as one keeps persisting and therefore reject Christ and your salvation and as the bible says.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]So according to them it is impossible for God to save anyone even them So what is it they believe in??[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I guess it is a good thing some do believe God and are saved, not because of them but because of the works of Christ and the power of God, which the Non OSAS deny.[/SIZE]

When will you quit bearing false witness about the non-OSAS people? For you to say that the non-OSAS believe it is 'impossible for God to save anyone even them' is nonsense. Then you have the audacity to say that the non-OSAS deny the power of God. This is a lie.

How do I know? I've spoken to many non-OSAS people in my life and they not only believe God saves them but they affirm the power of God. I don't use OSAS in regard to my own beliefs as I consider it is misleading language. I affirm the Perseverance of the Saints.

I urge you to quit misrepresenting non-OSAS people as you have done with your post.

Let's get back to the topic of this thread that you started: So then who can be saved? That's easy to understand from Scripture:

• Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV): 'For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast'.
• And there is the critical factor of Acts 4:12 (ESV): 'And there is salvation in no one else [than Jesus], for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved'.

What did Paul and Silas tell the Philippian jailer? The jailer asked them, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' and they said, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household' (Acts 16:30-31 ESV).

So we are saved by grace through faith. It is the gift of God and no works can get us into God's kingdom. We need to believe in Jesus alone to receive salvation. What happens at the point of salvation? 'Since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ' (Rom 5:1 ESV). We are forensically declared righteous before God - that's the meaning of justification.

What is salvation? We are saved from the penalty of sin and death to live a new life in Christ. This is not a sinless life in Christ but one that increasingly becomes more like Jesus because of progressive sanctification. We are being made holy (sanctified); it's a growing process.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I actually havnt found to many that will say they do. They say they believe the bible?? and yet here we all are arguing over the bible, is God the author of confusion.

Do you know what hermeneutics means? I see you are an Aussie. If you read the Sydney Morning Herald (SMH) online, you will find that you need to engage in interpretation (hermeneutics) of what is written. You not only have to know the English language words, sentences and paragraphs (semantics), but you also need to understand Aussie and international culture to be able to make sense of news articles in the SMH.

The same applies to the Bible. We need to engage in grammatical, historical, cultural interpretations of OT & NT. The problems arise when we understand that we are centuries removed from OT and NT original writings. Knowing how to interpret grammar in the original language, history and culture that is diverse from ours, causes many headaches with interpretation.

Yes, God is not the author of confusion, but we Christians can cause confusion among ourselves over the many interpretations that seem to confuse some aspect of hermeneutics. That's why the Scriptures exhort us: 'Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another' (Prov 27:17 ESV). We need each other to sharpen our interpretations of Scripture. Also, 'Test everything; hold fast what is good' (1 Thess 5:20 ESV). This back and forth on CyB is especially helpful for those of us who want to sharpen our grasp of the Christian faith and to test what is taught on this forum by anyone, against what the Scriptures (when interpreted) state.

Oz

 

[Wormwood]

I am a non-OSAS/Pers of Saints person and I assure you I affirm that it is possible for God to save me and impossible for me to save myself. It seems obvious is mjrhearth does not really understand the position he is criticizing or else he wouldn't make such statements. I dont fault his ignorance, but the fact he is so eager to condemn something he doesnt understand is what is troubling. Based on the statements he has given in this forum and others, I dont really see the point in trying to clarify the matter.

 

[OzSpen]

I am a non-OSAS/Pers of Saints person and I assure you I affirm that it is possible for God to save me and impossible for me to save myself. It seems obvious is mjrhearth does not really understand the position he is criticizing or else he wouldn't make such statements. I dont fault his ignorance, but the fact he is so eager to condemn something he doesnt understand is what is troubling. Based on the statements he has given in this forum and others, I dont really see the point in trying to clarify the matter.

Wormwood,

I'm coming to that conclusion also. Understanding accurately the position of one's opposition is primary in being able to critique it.

 

[StanJ]

Ditto Oz and WW.

 

[justaname]

Oz,

A major issue is when the poster refuses to clarify ambiguity in their language. I believe they do this in order to not have to logically look at their point of view. Once they start to answer questions concerning their position, they must confront what they believe. Then attempting to place clear language on illogical statements points them away from their position.

 

[StanJ]

A major issue is when the poster refuses to clarify ambiguity in their language. I believe they do this in order to not have to logically look at their point of view. Once they start to answer questions concerning their position, they must confront what they believe. Then attempting to place clear language on illogical statements points them away from their position.

and who exactly, determines that? The person NOT understanding, or playing their own word games?

 

[tom55]

Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


So than, who can be saved?? According to the NoN OSAS followers, no one can, according to them it is impossible for anyone to be saved, and even to the point of denying their own. Who would have thought such a thing.

To put the scripture you have quoted into full context one should read on: Peter then said to Jesus "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?” Jesus then said to them "......you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel..."

So according to the scripture (you didn't fully quote) we have to follow Him to be saved. It says nothing about being OSAS!! Why didn't you fully quote that passage?



Here is the dilemma, according to the Non OSAS , you may start your walk but somewhere along the line you will sin, fall away, loose your love as one keeps persisting and therefore reject Christ and your salvation and as the bible says.

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

So according to them it is impossible for God to save anyone even them So what is it they believe in??

Once again you didn't fully quote scripture and did not put that passage in context. So the answer to your question..."what is it they believe in??". We believe in reading all of scripture, in context, to find the answers we seek.

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

How is it that those who are supposed to be showing the world the love and power of God , deny the very same themselves??

Once again you didn't fully quote scripture and did not put it in context. In full context (starting with Heb 2:1) it is saying we should heed (follow) what we have been taught and the teaching that God spoke (thru angels) was shown to be true. And every time his people did something against that teaching, they were punished for what they did or they were punished when they did not obey that teaching. What you quoted (Heb2:3) means: How are we going to escape this punishment if we ignore such a great salvation or teaching? It was first spoken by Jesus and confirmed by those that heard Him.

And to put it in full context we can't leave out Heb 2:4 which says God vouched for or bared witness their message with signs, amazing things, various miracles, and gifts from the Holy Spirit.

Once again what you have (not fully) quoted has nothing to do with OSAS!! What you have done is fulfilled 2 Peter 3:16

respectfully....Tom55

And here were are. Two weeks later and no answer from mjrhealth!!

 

[mjrhealth]

And here were are. Two weeks later and no answer from mjrhealth!!

Is that pride creeping through. So impatient. So many christians think they can read teh bible and figure it all out. Yet when one takes things to Christ, it can take 5 years just for Him to teach you the understanding of one line.

Salvation comes through believing not following, those who follow Him belong to Him, those whom God has given to the Son, His Sheep.

You believe in reading teh scripture to learn I spend most of my Life with Him patiently waiting for answer.

You have a long way to go. Go to Jesus learn from Him you will not find a better teacher.

In all His Love

 

[StanJ]

Sometimes it's best to just let a thread die a natural death.

 

[ATP]

If we can lose our salvation, then why did John see his name written on the wall in the New Jerusalem? Rev 21:14 NIV

 

[KingJ]

If we can lose our salvation, then why did John see his name written on the wall in the New Jerusalem? Rev 21:14 NIV

I admire your perseverance on this subject ^_^.

 

[Wormwood]

Actually, the names were written on the "foundations" not the wall. This image portrays the foundation of the church being the message of the Apostles. It has nothing to do with the individual salvation of John. This passage is no different than what we read in Eph. 2:20. It has nothing to do with OSAS or individual election.