So, were these wrong also?...and why?

[aspen]

I am not Catholic but I would venture to guess that when the leadership acts in sin, the catholic church as a whole does not scramble to help them cover it up. As our brother Aspen stated above, they most likely are upset with it but that does not change what they believe or their relationship with Christ. Our best option is to pray for the leadership that they change their ways and get right with God.

BA

Indeed. This is one of the lessons learned from Vatican II. The leadership is just like us, sinful. The body of Catholicism is finally getting it - we are waiting for the leadership to follow - some of the old guard still like to cover things up. Personally, I have no tolerance for it, but I also think the situation will continue to get better (The current Pope is a good start) - whether it is due to inspiration or replacement.

 

[Born_Again]

And to touch or corruption....
As previously stated, the protestant church has it's corruption as well. Corruption has different forms. Traditionally we think of sex crimes and money misappropriation. Do we consider false doctrine corruption? I do. There are churches, claiming to be protestant, and even some of the bigger ones, that are accepting gay marriage. That would be a corrupt doctrine. But for the purposes of the media and what generally will get the public riled up, sex crimes seem to fit the bill. But we all know better.. don't we????

Anytime we don't agree with a churches teachings we go off and create another church that soon creates another church and so forth. Had the doctrine not been corrupt, would they have left? And on the other side of that, do we break off from the church and create our own with a corrupt doctrine so it fits what we want to do and believe?

Corruption in the church has many forms. Before we point fingers, make sure we are looking at the whole picture. Make sure we are bringing glory to God and His kingdom.

BA

 

[DogLady19]

Corruption is unavoidable. I think it is a myth that the smaller the church, they less corruption exists. The way it has been handled in the past by Protestants is to declare a 'do over' by staring a new denomination - we all know how that has turned out. Based on my experience, where two or more are gathered, corruption is in the mix. So the smaller you get, the more tribal you get and the more heretical because there is no authority to reign it in AND corruption.

I think I did not make myself clear... Churches of any size can become corrupt.

But each local congregation should have its own personality and/or culture. Too much control from a nonlocal governing body leads to legalism and oppression. History bears this out.

For sure, churches of a specific denomination should all agree on certain things. But their commonality should solely be in their core doctrine, not in the micromanagement of each congregation when it comes to culture and community. It impedes a church's ability to reach their lost neighbors, which is the prime directive of all churches.

Tribalism is something to strive for, not prevent. Even in Peter and Paul's day, each congregation was tribal in nature.

The only conformity any church is required to adhere to is the death and resurrection of Jesus for the salvation of our souls, and loving everyone as God loves them.

 

[aspen]

I think I did not make myself clear... Churches of any size can become corrupt.

But each local congregation should have its own personality and/or culture. Too much control from a nonlocal governing body leads to legalism and oppression. History bears this out.

For sure, churches of a specific denomination should all agree on certain things. But their commonality should solely be in their core doctrine, not in the micromanagement of each congregation when it comes to culture and community. It impedes a church's ability to reach their lost neighbors, which is the prime directive of all churches.

Tribalism is something to strive for, not prevent. Even in Peter and Paul's day, each congregation was tribal in nature.

The only conformity any church is required to adhere to is the death and resurrection of Jesus for the salvation of our souls, and loving everyone as God loves them.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think the danger of heresy and private interpretation is far too great with decentralize authority. I live in the NW and the Christian Identity Movement is strong here - heresy + tribalism = yikes.

 

[DogLady19]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think the danger of heresy and private interpretation is far too great with decentralize authority. I live in the NW and the Christian Identity Movement is strong here - heresy + tribalism = yikes.

It did not occur to me until now that we may be using the word "tribalism" differently... When I use the word "tribalism" I am not using Ayn Rand's definition, which means creating classism, castes, etc. I believe that leads to all kinds of chaos and false prophets...

I am using the basic sociological definition of the word, which is simply loyalty to a particular culture with which they identify. If you listen to your local music and dress similarly to your community members, then you are practicing tribalism in that very basic sense.

PS: I'm in a non-denominational church with a world-wide network of congregations that holds each accountable for the others when it comes to the fundamentals of Christianity and the Gospel. It works quite well for us. When it comes to a group of people working together, there is no one-size-fits-all system of governance. Yours works for you and ours work for us.