So what the hell you doing with your life

[Ezra]

It is only through God's mercy that any of us have hope at all. Because of His love for us, He had mercy on us and sent open the Way that was closed to mankind since their first carnal parents were put outside the garden of Eden.

The paragraph which both @Helen and you stumble on is one which many people use in support of OSAS. Inadvertently I left verse 15 out of my post #35. I have edited the post to include it, but it is missing in yours and in Helen's posted copies.

"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." I Cor 3:15

Some people read it to say that even though a lot of their own works burn up they are still saved. I read in conjunction with verse:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." I Cor 3:11

Verse 11 makes it clear that the foundation is equal to Jesus Christ, the Rock. He is not sand. Without the Proper Foundation, that is without Jesus, the best on materials available [gold, silver and precious stones] used to build a house on that Foundation of Rock will wash away in the flood.

"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matt 7:26-27

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock" Matt 7:24:25

The Proper Foundation is the key. If a person does not have or loses that Proper Foundation he loses any hope that the house which he is endure to the end!
[Rev 2:4 (first love lost)] [II Thess 2:10-11 (no love of truth results in delusion)]

this is the key to our salvation bing secure 1. it is of his mercy / due to Grace then having the right foundation if we are built upon the rock as peter said thou art the Christ . Christ replied upon this revelation i will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail ( battering rams of hell) to many build the foundation on sand and the structure out of wood hay stubble

"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." I Cor 3:15

Some people read it to say that even though a lot of their own works burn up they are still saved. I read in conjunction with verse:

this scripture is in conjunction of the Bema seat judgment its our works..not salvation . but our quality of works will speak of our salvation. as i was talking with another preacher buddy of mine discussed the issue eternal security . if your going to believe it. then you have to live it also. that means 1 john 1:7 & 9 walk in the light confess our sins . anything outside that is not salvation. that is why those who believe and teach it and defend it this is where the black eye comes in .those not walking in the light or confessing sins.. we all fail to liv it like we should at times.. but not living it through grace...then there is a major problem

 

[amadeus]

this is the key to our salvation bing secure 1. it is of his mercy / due to Grace then having the right foundation if we are built upon the rock as peter said thou art the Christ . Christ replied upon this revelation i will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail ( battering rams of hell) to many build the foundation on sand and the structure out of wood hay stubble this scripture is in conjunction of the bna seat judgment if our works..not salvation . but our quality of works will speak of our salvation. as i was talking with another preacher buddy of mine discussed the issue eternal security . if your going to believe it. then you have to live it also. that means 1 john 1:7 & 9 walk in the light confess our sins . anything outside that is not salvation. that is why those who believe and teach it and defend it this is where the black eye comes in .those not walking in the light or confessing sins.. we all fail to liv it like we should at times.. but not living it through grace...then there is a major problem

Thank you for this post. I read something in your words that also was enhancing the black eye I'd already been giving to myself. I try to avoid discussing [arguing?] this issue very much because while I do stand on one side, quite a while ago the argument from the other side became clearer to me. That I can see it, does not mean that I can or even should try to describe what I have seen. For a person to stand right with God on the side where I have not been, if he ever found himself slipping, he would need to re-secure his lashings to the Proper Foundation because he never had really been where he thought he had been. This is what some on that other side might say when someone supposedly back slides: "He was never really saved in the first place". What if this is the case with everyone who has not yet completely overcome as Jesus overcame?

But now I may be confusing some here and maybe me too.

I see the potential for salvation on both sides of the OSAS line even though I personally continue to stand against the OSAS. I cannot see God removing from a person the capability during his allotted time [each person has an allotted period] to go any way he likes. However, if a person get started for real with Jesus as his foundation, why would he or why should he reach down and undermine his own foundation? To do so would be very foolish, but in doing that would he the first or the last man to act foolishly?

My own belief here really is firm, but who is edified by one position or the other, depends on just where a person is. Some need to be where I am and some, I believe, need to be on the other side in order in each case to walk with God to the end of the road.

 

[Ezra]

My own belief here really is firm,

there is nothing wrong with your belief . i will say i lean toward the eternal security .but not the point the southern the missionary and independent. Baptist do. i don teach you can nor can not i teach /preach a know so salvation. a pentecostal minister i us to enjoy listening to. once said God is not up in haven waiting with a big hammer to take you out when you sin. i agree there is no place in the Bible that says we can sin all the time on purpose and make heaven our home . paul covered that in rom 6 what shall we sin because we are under grace? GOD FORBID/certainly not..if a person is using grace as to say even though i am in sin not turning from. i will make it to heaven..that is no longer grace// . i do like to discuss /not argue in a civil manner this issue . we do and can hav security in Christ. unless its point blank false doctrine like purgatory or work based salvation . i will not argue what i mean by black eye is living in sin /no repentance claiming eternal security . gives the black eye . i am not a promoter of osas but of knowing you have eternal life

 

[Ezra]

"He was never really saved in the first place". What if this is the case with everyone who has not yet completely overcome as Jesus overcame?

calvinist lean that way call p.o.s perseverance of the saints. those who are truly saved will stay saved. some merit to this .. but like you confusing for me also. i have studied this out for years .. i had rather leave earth at the end of my life IN HIM than not

 

[amadeus]

there is nothing wrong with your belief . i will say i lean toward the eternal security .but not the point the southern the missionary and independent. Baptist do. i don teach you can nor can not i teach /preach a know so salvation. a pentecostal minister i us to enjoy listening to. once said God is not up in haven waiting with a big hammer to take you out when you sin. i agree there is no place in the Bible that says we can sin all the time on purpose and make heaven our home . paul covered that in rom 6 what shall we sin because we are under grace? GOD FORBID/certainly not..if a person is using grace as to say even though i am in sin not turning from. i will make it to heaven..that is no longer grace// . i do like to discuss /not argue in a civil manner this issue . we do and can hav security in Christ. unless its point blank false doctrine like purgatory or work based salvation . i will not argue what i mean by black eye is living in sin /no repentance claiming eternal security . gives the black eye . i am not a promoter of osas but of knowing you have eternal life

Thank you for softly spoken words from another view point. I really like to hear them, to listen to them, to understand them. Some people cannot do that without the harshness, the sarcasm and the attack mode. There are unfortunately some on here I seldom ever talk with... because they don't know how to just talk. Once I realize that I may purposely avoid their posts. It is not that hard to do when as I cannot spend an awful lot of time on here reading all of the posts. There are too many and I am both a slow reader and a slow absorber... especially of different ideas.

I believe God can help us to talk with others and thereby both give and receive. That is one place I believe where the Holy Spirit can and will help us. But... some who talk about the Holy Spirit never let the Holy Spirit really do a work in them. How does that happen? Many of them believe they are able to tell me and will move quickly to do so, but really do not want to hear me or anyone else. Why is that?

 

[amadeus]

calvinist lean that way call p.o.s perseverance of the saints. those who are truly saved will stay saved. some merit to this .. but like you confusing for me also. i have studied this out for years .. i had rather leave earth at the end of my life IN HIM than not

I am with you here. Sometimes I want it all to beover... and when I talk like that to my wife she rebukes me. Yes, I say, I know, the choosing that time is definitely mine to do. Nevertheless when I have days of physical pain and I am tired but cannot sleep, it is easy to laps into wrong ways. But really, today has been good day, and you have lifted it up a bit more...

 

[Ezra]

Thank you for softly spoken words from another view point. I really like to hear them, to listen to them, to understand them.

hey i discussed tongues with you .it went rather well . i do love to discuss this..it takes a open mind to understand what i am saying

Many of them believe they are able to tell me and will move quickly to do so, but really do not want to hear me or anyone else. Why is that?

good question..on a note aa preacher buddy of min told me of a 2 beers and Bible study going on at a local restaurant in another town they will host a thursday night Bible study at a restaurant and you can drink beer... i posted in face book boom the Bible does not say you cant drink alcohol. coming from 2 different Christians.my point was beer and Bible study really?

 

[Ezra]

I am with you here. Sometimes I want it all to beover... and when I talk like that to my wife she rebukes me. Yes, I say, I know, the choosing that time is definitely mine to do. Nevertheless when I have days of physical pain and I am tired but cannot sleep, it is easy to laps into wrong ways. But really, today has been good day, and you have lifted it up a bit more...

when your work is done you go home not day sooner

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is only through God's mercy that any of us have hope at all. Because of His love for us, He had mercy on us and sent open the Way that was closed to mankind since their first carnal parents were put outside the garden of Eden.

The paragraph which both @Helen and you stumble on is one which many people use in support of OSAS. Inadvertently I left verse 15 out of my post #35. I have edited the post to include it, but it is missing in yours and in Helen's posted copies.

"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." I Cor 3:15

Some people read it to say that even though a lot of their own works burn up they are still saved. I read in conjunction with verse:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." I Cor 3:11

Verse 11 makes it clear that the foundation is equal to Jesus Christ, the Rock. He is not sand. Without the Proper Foundation, that is without Jesus, the best on materials available [gold, silver and precious stones] used to build a house on that Foundation of Rock will wash away in the flood.

"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matt 7:26-27

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock" Matt 7:24:25

The Proper Foundation is the key. If a person does not have or loses that Proper Foundation he loses any hope that the house which he is endure to the end!
[Rev 2:4 (first love lost)] [II Thess 2:10-11 (no love of truth results in delusion)]

Thank you. As I think we have discussed before I’m just not there. Can’t say it will never change as I believe you said your perspective did with growth, but right now I do have unanswered questions which maybe have to do with the topic of Salvation and leaving it open for now. Like my mom who repeats the same retelling of a moment from her childhood where her father rejected her. Even elderly now, she asks me the same question every time I see her and I’m not exaggerating. Asking “I had no other place to go. I was a child. Where was I supposed to go?” She is stuck there in that rejection. But every time my answer is the same to her “Go to God. He is the Father who will not reject you.” She doesn’t want to hear it or receive it. Instead she continues to relive something that she can’t go back and change about her natural father. So I have whys...does that make sense?

 

[amadeus]

hey i discussed tongues with you .it went rather well . i do love to discuss this..it takes a open mind to understand what i am saying

My memory is slipping quite a bit. I used to always lean heavily on my wife because her memory was always so good, then when she started missing things, I knew we were both in trouble. LOL. I am trying to be honest. I don't remember our discussion on tongues, but then again I don't remember discussions I had yesterday and that certainly is the truth. But... tongues is a topic I have enjoyed with many people over the years. Some agreed with my point of view and some certainly did not.

good question..on a note aa preacher buddy of min told me of a 2 beers and Bible study going on at a local restaurant in another town they will host a thursday night Bible study at a restaurant and you can drink beer... i posted in face book boom the Bible does not say you cant drink alcohol. coming from 2 different Christians.my point was beer and Bible study really?

I was always a beer drinker in my youth. I loved the German dark beer. These days my beers are rare, but not gone. I had two bottles last month which was more than I had all the rest of last year. None yet for 2020. I wish I were around close enough to join one of those Bible and beer discussions.

 

[amadeus]

when your work is done you go home not day sooner

Yes, I know this very well. When the idea of checking out according to own timetable gets to be too favorable in my own mind, I know it is time to talk to the Lord some more.

 

[Helen]

My own belief here really is firm, but who is edified by one position or the other, depends on just where a person is. Some need to be where I am and some, I believe, need to be on the other side in order in each case to walk with God to the end of the road.

Amen John. Agree

If we all keep on keeping on.. until the end, keeping close to Father .
On That Day we will all see on which side the truth falls ...all will then be revealed. "For me" it is not a beach to die upon.
I choose my beaches LOL

 

[amadeus]

Thank you. As I think we have discussed before I’m just not there. Can’t say it will never change as I believe you said your perspective did with growth,

It certainly did and even now in small ways or even large one it is still changing.

but right now I do have unanswered questions which maybe have to do with the topic of Salvation and leaving it open for now.

The topic of salvation is one of the ones definitely changing in me more recently and now...

Like my mom who repeats the same retelling of a moment from her childhood where her father rejected her. Even elderly now, she asks me the same question every time I see her

My old pastor who I visit every Wednesday morning unless he is out of town has some wonderful stories to relate but likely I have heard every one of them many times before. Each time he starts to tell one, he will begin with something like, "I don't know if I've told you this before..." and then goes into it. He really does not remember that he did tell, more than once. I listen as if it were a brand new one. It's important to him so I try to keep it important to me.

and I’m not exaggerating. Asking “I had no other place to go. I was a child. Where was I supposed to go?” She is stuck there in that rejection. But every time my answer is the same to her “Go to God. He is the Father who will not reject you.” She doesn’t want to hear it or receive it. Instead she continues to relive something that she can’t go back and change about her natural father. So I have whys...does that make sense?

Your mother is stuck on an old rejection, a place of pain which remains in spite of the years. My pastor is stuck on old stories which usually include some really good testimonies. Both of these older people give us an idea what does happens in some measure to all older people, both those who serve God and those who do not. It doesn't to this point look good for your mother, but maybe in the back of her mind or hidden in her heart is a list of the times you have tried to open up a door to God for her. Maybe one day something will soften in her heart and she will reach out to you. Keep on trying when you can and always keep her in prayer. I will as well.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The topic of salvation is one of the ones definitely changing in me more recently and now...

Would love to ask about these changes recently and now ...but maybe wouldn’t understand.

Keep on trying when you can and always keep her in prayer. I will as well.

Her name is Betty.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Your mother is stuck on an old rejection, a place of pain which remains in spite of the years. My pastor is stuck on old stories which usually include some really good testimonies. Both of these older people give us an idea what does happens in some measure to all older people, both those who serve God and those who do not.

see your point although it is sad. not for your pastor but my mother. All her retelling and memories are loss, physical abuse, and pain. These are her memories and yes I agree, she doesn’t realize she has told me them before. To her each time we talk, she is telling it for the first time. What is your perspective of James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

[amadeus]

Would love to ask about these changes recently and now ...but maybe wouldn’t understand.

Salvation is a word most of us who have ever attended church learned early. This is so regardless of the doctrines/views/denominations involved. Most pastors/priests/teachers put a lot of emphasis on it and so do their audiences. Probably over 20 years ago I heard a message from a preacher who I have had reason to dislike, but I never did... dislike him that is. [I was never a member of his church but that too is another story.] He made a comparison between himself and his mother. His mother, he said, always loved God because He was loveable whereas the son, the preacher, was into more for the benefits to be received, meaning salvation and never ending life. He said that while he was not where his mother was on this he recognized it as being a better place. [He is a worse condition today, but again that is another story.]

Before I heard that man say that, I guess I had never really considered the two positions he defined carefully before although they had certainly crossed my mind. After hearing him, I got to thinking on it and praying on it and studying on it.

That preacher was hard for me to like even though he was supposed to be a minister of God and the pastor of a large assembly. His mother on the other hand was a lovable person and everyone who knew her liked and loved her.

From that point while never doing a specific Bible study on it that difference between son and mother always was in my mind/heart when I was reading scripture, talking to God or when I stood to teach/preach a message myself. The difference was growing on me. I guess it was in this past year [time really uncertain] as I was reading through, on this forum, one of the many discussions between those who embrace OSAS and those opposed to it that the change on my part became more pronounced. After following this particular discussion I held myself back from standing so strong against the OSAS by personal involvement even though I was still opposed to it. Several months ago [still uncertain of the time] I tried to describe my feeling to our friend @Helen and maybe she remembers it better than I do.

All of this was coming together mixing with a position I have held for many years that is not usually a popular one with regard to who could be saved. It could be complicated, but simply stated it is approaching the Name, or even being in the Name without knowing that the Messiah's name was Jesus or even knowing in one's mind that there was a Messiah who would come or did come as Jesus has done.

But... from the heart one little Chinese girl or one little Nigerian boy or another child on a remote South Pacific island directed toward God without ever reading a Bible or hearing from any formal Christian folks she/he touches and is touched by God... the One God.

Very recently on this forum on a nearly unrelated thread I wrote the following:

One Baptism

As you see I was really taking the position with these 4 men that each and every one of them could be saved in spite of their differences because of the direction of their hearts.

But that brought me back to salvation the thing most every one seems to want, sometimes more than anything else. Should it be salvation. In a short post God let me write it down here:

No one can see the Kingdom of God unless...

That whole OSAS argument, for or against, has to do with salvation, but that is where that preacher I mentioned above was in error while his mother was right.

So much discussion here about salvation and how to get it or statements that we already have it and so forth... Is that not a selfish direction to take with primary concern being for me and for my salvation, and/or for me and for my never dying...

'''Rather than because I love God so much I would be willing to do anything... even what Jesus was asked by his Father to do?

Her name is Betty.

Easy name for me to remember. Last year, my wife and I lost one Betty [in her late 80's], a friend for many years, to cancer and other complications. The second Betty is now recovering from pancreatic cancer surgery.

I will certainly be praying for this Betty, your mother, that God might touch her heart that she might really hear all of the words you have spoken and want to have spoken to her about Him.

 

[amadeus]

see your point although it is sad. not for your pastor but my mother. All her retelling and memories are loss, physical abuse, and pain. These are her memories and yes I agree, she doesn’t realize she has told me them before. To her each time we talk, she is telling it for the first time. What is your perspective of James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

In the next verse [James 5:16] it says that the "effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" and so it does. What I have understood is that our prayers can cause a person's heart to open so that he/she hears indeed. But this is assuring that she does not miss the opportunity to be healed or to be saved due to her ignorance of God's message.

Your prayer for her salvation from a righteous place [your own heart] can do that. The salvation of course is still up to her once she has opened herself up and heard what really is available to whosoeverwill. Then she must make the right 'educated' choices. Up to now she has apparently been completely blind and deaf to your efforts, but while there is time, there is hope for her. Pray that God open her eyes and see what her real situation is before Him!

 

[Ezra]

He made a comparison between himself and his mother. His mother, he said, always loved God because He was loveable whereas the son, the preacher, was into more for the benefits to be received, meaning salvation and never ending life. He said that while he was not where his mother was on this he recognized it as being a better place. [He is a worse condition today, but again that is another story.]

dont sound like he had the real thing

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Salvation is a word most of us who have ever attended church learned early. This is so regardless of the doctrines/views/denominations involved. Most pastors/priests/teachers put a lot of emphasis on it and so do their audiences. Probably over 20 years ago I heard a message from a preacher who I have had reason to dislike, but I never did... dislike him that is. [I was never a member of his church but that too is another story.] He made a comparison between himself and his mother. His mother, he said, always loved God because He was loveable whereas the son, the preacher, was into more for the benefits to be received, meaning salvation and never ending life. He said that while he was not where his mother was on this he recognized it as being a better place. [He is a worse condition today, but again that is another story.]

Before I heard that man say that, I guess I had never really considered the two positions he defined carefully before although they had certainly crossed my mind. After hearing him, I got to thinking on it and praying on it and studying on it.

That preacher was hard for me to like even though he was supposed to be a minister of God and the pastor of a large assembly. His mother on the other hand was a lovable person and everyone who knew her liked and loved her.

From that point while never doing a specific Bible study on it that difference between son and mother always was in my mind/heart when I was reading scripture, talking to God or when I stood to teach/preach a message myself. The difference was growing on me. I guess it was in this past year [time really uncertain] as I was reading through, on this forum, one of the many discussions between those who embrace OSAS and those opposed to it that the change on my part became more pronounced. After following this particular discussion I held myself back from standing so strong against the OSAS by personal involvement even though I was still opposed to it. Several months ago [still uncertain of the time] I tried to describe my feeling to our friend @Helen and maybe she remembers it better than I do.

All of this was coming together mixing with a position I have held for many years that is not usually a popular one with regard to who could be saved. It could be complicated, but simply stated it is approaching the Name, or even being in the Name without knowing that the Messiah's name was Jesus or even knowing in one's mind that there was a Messiah who would come or did come as Jesus has done.

But... from the heart one little Chinese girl or one little Nigerian boy or another child on a remote South Pacific island directed toward God without ever reading a Bible or hearing from any formal Christian folks she/he touches and is touched by God... the One God.

Very recently on this forum on a nearly unrelated thread I wrote the following:

One Baptism

As you see I was really taking the position with these 4 men that each and every one of them could be saved in spite of their differences because of the direction of their hearts.

But that brought me back to salvation the thing most every one seems to want, sometimes more than anything else. Should it be salvation. In a short post God let me write it down here:

No one can see the Kingdom of God unless...

That whole OSAS argument, for or against, has to do with salvation, but that is where that preacher I mentioned above was in error while his mother was right.

So much discussion here about salvation and how to get it or statements that we already have it and so forth... Is that not a selfish direction to take with primary concern being for me and for my salvation, and/or for me and for my never dying...

'''Rather than because I love God so much I would be willing to do anything... even what Jesus was asked by his Father to do?


Easy name for me to remember. Last year, my wife and I lost one Betty [in her late 80's], a friend for many years, to cancer and other complications. The second Betty is now recovering from pancreatic cancer surgery.

I will certainly be praying for this Betty, your mother, that God might touch her heart that she might really hear all of the words you have spoken and want to have spoken to her about Him.

maybe we are not that far apart here. I don’t know how to explain it but lately I’ve leaned toward not trying so hard to acquire Salvation for myself. For some of the reasons you mentioned (if I understood you correctly); it makes me always the focus even to the point of becoming defensive. something that has stood out lately is when Paul spoke (inspired by the Spirit of God) it was often speaking of power (a measure given of God)toward others. I don’t remember Jesus Christ obsessed over His own Salvation. of course He is the Son of God, but then so are the children of God. Glad you shared your perspective coming from experience. Thank you. I do love Him. But also can remember when I said I was Christian when there was no relationship or love.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

In the next verse [James 5:16] it says that the "effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" and so it does.

Yes. Thank you again. “the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much” “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.” Galatians 6:15