Sola Fide

[bbyrd009]

don't be deceived, little children...

a good deed covers many sins

Guess you folks will have to read between the lines.

ha, a little Scriptural humor there lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Let's explore Hebrews 11. Why not?

17. By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

The verse says it was by faith he offered up Isaac. What for? As a burnt offering. He was to burn and kill Isaac. Did he suceed? Well, there is a surprise answer to that question. But the answer is they both walked off the mountain. So Abraham did nothing other than show up and be willing. By the way... The verse says he received "promises". Isaac certainly was one. What was the other?

But let's look at the account first hand:

Genesis 17:19-21 KJV
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

God said he was going to establish a covenant with Isaac's seed. That is Jacob, of course.

Gen 22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

Abraham said to his servants that they (Abraham and Isaac were coming back). Does that not seem strange? It shouldn't, because Abraham had faith in that God was going to establish a covenant with Isaac's seed.

THAT is some strong faith! God first said Isaac's seed would have the Covenant and Abraham still believed it even as he was going to sacrifice Isaac... So much that he said, we're coming back!

Back to Hebrews 11:

[18] Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: [19] Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

This is not a matter of Abraham believing he was going to lose his son whom he just loved so much (Im sure he did). It was a matter of the covenant being fulfilled.

Verse 19 suggests that Abraham believed he was going to go through with it and then God was going to bring him back.

Either way.... The faith was in the promised covenant. Yes God wanted to see if he would go through with it... I understand that. But the faith of Abraham was in that somehow they were both returning. It had nothing to do with any "works" were being done. Abraham wasn't worried about it.

Isaac, on the other hand, he might have been a little concerned at the moment....

so, i went into "bb code editor" (upper right in edit window, the little page with a corner turned down) which i have no idea what that even is, but it revealed a [ S ] (without spaces) leading me to believe that you accidentally found a bb code shortcut for "strikethrough."

 

[bbyrd009]

Let's explore Hebrews 11. Why not?

17. By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

The verse says it was by faith he offered up Isaac. What for? As a burnt offering. He was to burn and kill Isaac. Did he suceed? Well, there is a surprise answer to that question. But the answer is they both walked off the mountain. So Abraham did nothing other than show up and be willing. By the way... The verse says he received "promises". Isaac certainly was one. What was the other?

But let's look at the account first hand:

Genesis 17:19-21 KJV
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

God said he was going to establish a covenant with Isaac's seed. That is Jacob, of course.

Gen 22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

Abraham said to his servants that they (Abraham and Isaac were coming back). Does that not seem strange? It shouldn't, because Abraham had faith in that God was going to establish a covenant with Isaac's seed.

THAT is some strong faith! God first said Isaac's seed would have the Covenant and Abraham still believed it even as he was going to sacrifice Isaac... So much that he said, we're coming back!

Back to Hebrews 11:

[18] Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: [19] Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

This is not a matter of Abraham believing he was going to lose his son whom he just loved so much (Im sure he did). It was a matter of the covenant being fulfilled.

Verse 19 suggests that Abraham believed he was going to go through with it and then God was going to bring him back.

Either way.... The faith was in the promised covenant. Yes God wanted to see if he would go through with it... I understand that. But the faith of Abraham was in that somehow they were both returning. It had nothing to do with any "works" were being done. Abraham wasn't worried about it.

Isaac, on the other hand, he might have been a little concerned at the moment....

 

[Marymog]

Nor do I recall me saying you did. Its just funny that twice I've talked about Romans 4 and the conversation switched to Isaac being offered up.

Good. So lets talk about Eph 2, Romans 4 and Galatians. OR would you rather just talk about James 2 or Heb 11 (which says it was by faith)? What 1 or 2 verses would you like to discuss woth "the fullness of scripture"?

You don't really want to discuss Romans 4 or Galatians or Romans 3 or Eph 2, do you? Ok.... We can discuss Heb 11. But don't tell me about "fullness of scripture" if you don't acknowledge such verses.

Huh? How is "yes" not an answer?

Dear FHII,

You were the first to mention Isaac to me in post #47. I have only responded to what YOU have said. I don't think I have switched anything....but maybe I am missing something here!

Before we dig deeper I just want to make sure I understand what you believe.

What is a person supposed to have faith IN to be saved? You have to have faith in _________(fill in the blank) to be saved.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

See tabletalks reply. If that is not enough then the actually is plenty more.

Yea... I actually know many of those verses and they don't counter grace through faith. Its your burden to tell me how those verses apply. Not mine.

Hi FHII,

I never said they "counter grace through faith". Are we talking about "grace through faith" or Sola Fide? You have me confused....again.

Mary

 

[FHII]

You were the first to mention Isaac to me in post #47. I have only responded to what YOU have said. I don't think I have switched anything....but maybe I am missing something here!

Then why did you bring them up? What was your purpose for listing all them? Did you want me to weed through them? If so, what is the point or conclusion those verses make?

[On the topic of Isaac]
You brought it up twice in post #41. Tabletalk was discussing Romans 4 and you switched the conversation it Gen 22 and James 2. Not necessarily wrong in doing so except you never commented on what he was talking about: Romans 4. You switched the conversation from Abraham's faith in Isaac being promised to whether or not he had faith+works in Isaac's being offered up.

I never said they "counter grace through faith". Are we talking about "grace through faith" or Sola Fide? You have me confused....again.

Its really not that confusing. Do you really need to ask all these "clarifying questions? "What are we supposed to have faith in?" what do you think, Mary? Buddha? The 1969 Mets? Every time Jesus or the Apostles talked about having faith, whom so you think they were saying have faith in? When some one says "grace through faith" or "saved by faith" what else was mentioned? Nothing. Just faith.

I am looking forward to you once again contributing to the discussion. There are alot of subtopics you can choose from. There's Romans 4, Eph 2, Heb 11 (you can give a rebuttal on my post of that chapter), you can even go back and tell me what I have wrong about James 2. You can even bring up something new.

Just please... No more clarifying questions or "you said/I never said".... Stuff.

 

[Marymog]

Then why did you bring them up? What was your purpose for listing all them? Did you want me to weed through them? If so, what is the point or conclusion those verses make?

[On the topic of Isaac]
You brought it up twice in post #41. Tabletalk was discussing Romans 4 and you switched the conversation it Gen 22 and James 2. Not necessarily wrong in doing so except you never commented on what he was talking about: Romans 4. You switched the conversation from Abraham's faith in Isaac being promised to whether or not he had faith+works in Isaac's being offered up.

Its really not that confusing. Do you really need to ask all these "clarifying questions? "What are we supposed to have faith in?" what do you think, Mary? Buddha? The 1969 Mets? Every time Jesus or the Apostles talked about having faith, whom so you think they were saying have faith in? When some one says "grace through faith" or "saved by faith" what else was mentioned? Nothing. Just faith.

I am looking forward to you once again contributing to the discussion. There are alot of subtopics you can choose from. There's Romans 4, Eph 2, Heb 11 (you can give a rebuttal on my post of that chapter), you can even go back and tell me what I have wrong about James 2. You can even bring up something new.

Just please... No more clarifying questions or "you said/I never said".... Stuff.

Fair enough FHII.

Do infants go to heaven?

Curious Mary

 

[Helen]

so, i went into "bb code editor" (upper right in edit window, the little page with a corner turned down) which i have no idea what that even is, but it revealed a [ S ] (without spaces) leading me to believe that you accidentally found a bb code shortcut for "strikethrough."

Oh thats great...I just want to have a little practice here.
Humpty Dumpty Sat on the wall.

Hummm I have clicked on the turned page on top right twice..I didn't get an S but my whole post, and your quote, went down to font size #5 !!!!

 

[Helen]

Oh, I just found it!! Yay!
It is under the black + next the camera and the other thing. The strike-though is the bottom of the drop down.

Blah blah blah

But I have no idea what the second option is for..it says " spoiler"...not a clue what that means.

 

[FHII]

Fair enough FHII.

Do infants go to heaven?

Curious Mary

I honestly don't know. I have considered the question, seen scripture on both sides, and have never came up with a solid answer. I hope so... But I don't have anything that has compelled me to come to a conclusion.

So this is your point. Would you actually like to make a point?

 

[Helen]

So this is your point. Would you actually like to make a point?

You posted somewhere that the 'point' was always to get off topic and derail a thread.

 

[Armadillo]

Grace is Jesus?

So God can't show grace? I can't show grace to you? Only Jesus can?

Doctrines don't appear.

Titus 2:11, For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
Titus 2:11, For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,

 

[FHII]

You posted somewhere that the 'point' was always to get off topic and derail a thread.

Well if I said that I misspoke. I want the conversation to stay on point. I don't like when it gets off task (like it is now). But I also acknowledge this isn't an academic discussion (in academic settings a moderator will strike down off topixs) and also some great conversations have come from getting off point.

Marymog wants to discuss infants going to or not going to heaven. She hasn't tied it into the conversation yet, but I will give her the opportunity to do so.

 

[Armadillo]

Do infants go to heaven?

My beautiful cat, had him for 16 years, died 2 months ago. I believe he's in heaven. He had a soul, didn't he? Do babies have souls? Yes, indeed they do.

 

[Helen]

Do infants go to heaven?

Curious Mary

They have no sin...so yes thy do.
I think 'heaven' is different than we think.
I believe they are growing before the Lord. I don't believe that it is a place where 'nothing happens', I believe the angels have their ministry and maybe the lead the little souls into maturity. Or, maybe a baby soul is a complete soul and is mature instantly.
What surprises we will all have finding out hope close or far away we are from truth! lol
Why I believe that I have no idea...I just do. I have no scripture quotes either!

 

[mjrhealth]

They have no sin...so yes thy do.

Of course they do, who do people think God is?? or what..There is an age of which we dont know, only God does where everyone becomes responsible for what they do. There is a reason why in Australia one doesnt need a log book as 25 to do a driving test, for our government they think that is an age where we can be considered responsible, although some never do take on any responsibility.

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh thats great...I just want to have a little practice here.
Humpty Dumpty Sat on the wall.

Hummm I have clicked on the turned page on top right twice..I didn't get an S but my whole post, and your quote, went down to font size #5 !!!!

ah, well you would have to click the bb code thingy @ his post to see the S though; actually i think i clicked "reply" first, then that.

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh, I just found it!! Yay!
It is under the black + next the camera and the other thing. The strike-though is the bottom of the drop down.

Blah blah blah

But I have no idea what the second option is for..it says " spoiler"...not a clue what that means.

well, i'll tell you, if you want a "spoiler"

Spoiler: voila

spoiler alert should have been my title, i guess, rather than voila lol

you can also make polls, and you should be able to set a countdown clock in a new thread also

 

[bbyrd009]

Do infants go to heaven?

not in the manner taught to us, because they never left the kingdom of God, having not fallen yet. As infants do not commit sins might indicate. An infant has not gotten as far as "Law" yet, right, so if you just follow the passages about how those who never attained Law are treated, that would apply to infants also. No Law, no sin.

 

[bbyrd009]

Doctrines don't appear.

hmm, they don't?