Some good information for Dave

[Jane_Doe22]

Mormon doctrine teaches that there are many gods and that God the Father is god only of this world. The gods were once humans who achieved a glorified status, which is taught in the couplet “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” The goal of Mormonism is ultimately to become a god of one’s own world. In heaven, a Heavenly Father and Mother produce spirit children who await bodies so they can become human and begin the process (this is the main reason Mormons typically have large families).
Jesus, the first of God the Father’s spiritual children, became a human through physical relationship between God the Father and a human mother. His death purchased resurrection for all people, who will face a judgment and spend eternity in one of four places. The celestial kingdom is for those who accept Mormon doctrine. The terrestrial kingdom is for good people who reject Mormon teaching on earth but later accept it in the spirit world. The telestial kingdom is for those who twice reject Mormon doctrine. The outer darkness is for Satan, his angels, and former Mormons who left the Church.


Morgan, G. R. (2012). Understanding World Religions in 15 Minutes a Day (pp. 156–157). Minneapolis, MN: Bethany House Publishers.

And you now know that this is junk information.

Two good pieces of advice when it comes to understanding what someone beliefs:
- Actually ask the person. First hand sources are your best go.
-Spend more than 15 minutes.
I'm sure you would appreciate these basic things when it comes to people understanding your own beliefs. I likewise do the same for others.

 

[Dave L]

And you now know that this is junk information.

Two good pieces of advice when it comes to understanding what someone beliefs:
- Actually ask the person. First hand sources are your best go.
-Spend more than 15 minutes.
I'm sure you would appreciate these basic things when it comes to people understanding your own beliefs. I likewise do the same for others.

I don't think you know enough about your church to respond to the claims against it. I have more with documentation as time permits.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I don't think you know enough about your church to respond to the claims against it. I have more with documentation as time permits.

And I'm letting you know what information is good or bad.

 

[farouk]

Mormon doctrine teaches that there are many gods and that God the Father is god only of this world. The gods were once humans who achieved a glorified status, which is taught in the couplet “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” The goal of Mormonism is ultimately to become a god of one’s own world. In heaven, a Heavenly Father and Mother produce spirit children who await bodies so they can become human and begin the process (this is the main reason Mormons typically have large families).
Jesus, the first of God the Father’s spiritual children, became a human through physical relationship between God the Father and a human mother. His death purchased resurrection for all people, who will face a judgment and spend eternity in one of four places. The celestial kingdom is for those who accept Mormon doctrine. The terrestrial kingdom is for good people who reject Mormon teaching on earth but later accept it in the spirit world. The telestial kingdom is for those who twice reject Mormon doctrine. The outer darkness is for Satan, his angels, and former Mormons who left the Church.


Morgan, G. R. (2012). Understanding World Religions in 15 Minutes a Day (pp. 156–157). Minneapolis, MN: Bethany House Publishers.

Bethany House Publishers has produced some good material. Some of James R. White's books are issued by them, for example.

 

[farouk]

“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”” (John 4:24) (HCSB)

Great verse there.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Bethany House Publishers has produced some good material.

I do not judge and entire publishing house, or even the entire book. I"m just stating this particular passage is bad information.

Some of James R. White's books are issued by them, for example.

I respect White's work n his own faith, but when it comes to his writings on other faiths... not so much (major understatement there).

 

[Dave L]

And I'm letting you know what information is good or bad.

I don't think you know enough to withstand the claims against Mormonism. How long have you been a member?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I don't think you know enough to withstand the claims against Mormonism. How long have you been a member?

30+ years, and have been addressing these exact same misconceptions for 15 of those years.

It's much more than the 15 minute approach.

 

[Dave L]

30+ years, and have been addressing these exact same misconceptions for 15 of those years.

It's much more than the 15 minute approach.

I think you are still in over your head. You still have not made a full disclosure about the Mormon view of the trinity. You are only trying to sell it showing the similarities with Christianity.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I think you are still in over your head. You still have not made a full disclosure about the Mormon view of the trinity. You are only trying to sell it showing the similarities with Christianity.

Actually, I spent 5 years of intense study on that exact topic, including hearing a variety of viewpoints. I literally highlight the similarities and the differences.

Note: my studying of different viewpoints includes months of time, attending services in person, having lengthy conversations with knowledgable adherents, and directly reading source materials myself.

 

[Dave L]

Mormonism teaches:

--God used to be a man on another planet and Mormon members
may become gods of their own worlds. 1
--There are many gods. 2
--The Trinity is three separate Gods. 3
--Entrance into celestial heaven is by the consent of God and the
Mormon prophet Joseph Smith. 4
--God has a body of flesh and bones. 5
--God is married and produces spirit babies by having physical
relations with his goddess wife. 6
--Jesus, Satan, and all of us are spirit brothers and sisters
procreated in a pre-existent spirit life. 7
--God had relations with Mary to make Jesus’ body. 8
--You must shed your own blood for the forgiveness of some sins. 9
--Good works are necessary for the forgiveness of sins. 10

Be careful. Rarely will they mention these 'higher' doctrines. Therefore, you really don't know what they are teaching until long after you have joined. Be warned.


DOCUMENTATION FROM MORMON WRITINGS

1) Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, p. 321. 2) Ibid., p. 163. 3) Ibid., p. 319. 4) Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 289. 5) Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. 6) McConkie, p. 516. 7) Ibid., pp. 192; 589. 8) Ibid., pp. 741-742; The Seer, p. 158. 9) Doctrines of Salvation by Joseph Smith, Vol. I, p. 135. 10) Articles of Faith, p. 79.

Borrowed from CARM

 

[Dave L]

Actually, I spent 5 years of intense study on that exact topic, including hearing a variety of viewpoints. I literally highlight the similarities and the differences.

Note: my studying of different viewpoints includes months of time, attending services in person, having lengthy conversations with knowledgable adherents, and directly reading source materials myself.

You are blinded by your denominational ball and chain and have too much to lose reading scripture objectively for yourself.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Mormonism teaches:

--God used to be a man on another planet and Mormon members
may become gods of their own worlds. 1
--There are many gods. 2
--The Trinity is three separate Gods. 3
--Entrance into celestial heaven is by the consent of God and the
Mormon prophet Joseph Smith. 4
--God has a body of flesh and bones. 5
--God is married and produces spirit babies by having physical
relations with his goddess wife. 6
--Jesus, Satan, and all of us are spirit brothers and sisters
procreated in a pre-existent spirit life. 7
--God had relations with Mary to make Jesus’ body. 8
--You must shed your own blood for the forgiveness of some sins. 9
--Good works are necessary for the forgiveness of sins. 10

I have literally discussed how of these points are incorrect/flawed TWICE already.

Be careful. Rarely will they mention these 'higher' doctrines. Therefore, you really don't know what they are teaching until long after you have joined. Be warned.

Oh, the classic "anti-cult" line and ego shining through. Supposing that a 15 minute glimpse teaches these "secret" stuff that someone how's done an in-depth decadal study (including look these exact same materials) doesn't know.

DOCUMENTATION FROM MORMON WRITINGS

1) Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, p. 321. 2) Ibid., p. 163. 3) Ibid., p. 319. 4) Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 289. 5) Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. 6) McConkie, p. 516. 7) Ibid., pp. 192; 589. 8) Ibid., pp. 741-742; The Seer, p. 158. 9) Doctrines of Salvation by Joseph Smith, Vol. I, p. 135. 10) Articles of Faith, p. 79.

Borrowed from CARM

Psst-- not a single one of those citations actually an LDS doctrinal source. Something that CARM conveniently neglects to tell it's readers. Literally every sentence on CARM's site about LDS beliefs is full of deception and falsehoods.

Again, I don't care if anyone agree with my beliefs. Totally don't care. But trying to "disprove" something no one believes is just downright silly. Let us instead by earnest disciples of Christ, and get our facts straight.

 

[Dave L]

I have literally discussed how of these points are incorrect/flawed TWICE already.

Oh, the classic "anti-cult" line and ego shining through. Supposing that a 15 minute glimpse teaches these "secret" stuff that someone how's done an in-depth decadal study (including look these exact same materials) doesn't know.

Psst-- not a single one of those citations actually an LDS doctrinal source. Something that CARM conveniently neglects to tell it's readers. Literally every sentence on CARM's site about LDS beliefs is full of deception and falsehoods.

Again, I don't care if anyone agree with my beliefs. Totally don't care. But trying to "disprove" something no one believes is just downright silly. Let us instead by earnest disciples of Christ, and get our facts straight.

You have not refuted a single one with a contrasting Mormon doctrine.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You are blinded by your denominational ball and chain and have too much to lose reading scripture objectively for yourself.

Oh, you're making me laugh here. You'd be hard pressed to find a person who's more thoroughly and honestly studied a variety of viewpoints.

 

[Dave L]

Tritheism (MORMONISM). The belief in three separate gods, and hence the denial of the Christian »Trinity. Tritheism is a form of polytheism.

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 458). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

 

[Dave L]

Oh, you're making me laugh here. You'd be hard pressed to find a person who's more thoroughly and honestly studied a variety of viewpoints.

Tritheism (MORMONISM). The belief in three separate gods, and hence the denial of the Christian »Trinity. Tritheism is a form of polytheism.

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 458). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You have not refuted a single one with a contrasting Mormon doctrine.

I literally did that the second post of this thread, only to have you continue repeating it.

Why do you think CARM neglects to tell it's reader the sources it's citing aren't actually LDS doctrinal sources? (Despite the horrible misnomer that is the name of McConkie's book).

 

[Dave L]

I literally did that the second post of this thread, only to have you continue repeating it.

Why do you think CARM neglects to tell it's reader the sources it's citing aren't actually LDS doctrinal sources? (Despite the horrible misnomer that is the name of McConkie's book).

You still do not refute any of their claims or fully disclose the Mormon doctrine of the trinity.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Tritheism (MORMONISM). The belief in three separate gods, and hence the denial of the Christian »Trinity. Tritheism is a form of polytheism.

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 458). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

Another junk book that can't be bothered to get it's facts straight (and yes, I have read that exact book).