Some good information for Dave

[Jane_Doe22]

"I have heard that Mormonism...", "I have heard that Jehovah's Witnesses...", "I have heard that Catholicism..." etc., etc.

This is all "hear say", we are not interested in hear say, someones always spouting off about the beliefs of one group or another and rather than go directly to the source to see what "they themselves" believe and practice they rely on the "hear say" of others most of which if one were to actually take the time to investigate they would find comes from some group or individual with an agenda, some anti-Catholic, anti-Witness, or in this case some anti-Mormon.

Unless you yourself were a Mormon at one time and had actually reached this supposed deeper understanding nothing you have presented here is of any vitality its merely "hear say".

THIS!!!!!!

 

[Dave L]

Again, the sources they quote aren't even LDS doctrinal sources.
I've already addreseed this fact before, only to have you ignore.

They quote LDS sources.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Again, I don't care if anyone agree with my beliefs. Totally don't care. But trying to "disprove" something no one believes is just downright silly. Let us instead by earnest disciples of Christ, and get our facts straight.

Well said.

 

[justbyfaith]

Which definition of cult would you apply to Mormonism?

a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

Which definition of cult would you apply to Christianity?

sect (of Judaism)...which broke off and became a religion of its own.

Islam?

Islam is a world religion.

Buddhism?

Buddhism is a world religion.
,

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Their false beliefs come from their own lips. All of what I said so far has footnotes and documentation.

Again: even the documentation is false. The sources they quote aren't even LDS doctrinal sources.

For a third time: I don't care if anyone agree with my beliefs. Totally don't care. But trying to "disprove" something no one believes is just downright silly. Let us instead by earnest disciples of Christ, and get our facts straight.

 

[justbyfaith]

Tritheism (MORMONISM).

Tritheism is not confined to Mormonism; it can be a misunderstanding of the Trinity among Trinitarians in which the Oneness of the Lord is missed.

To emphasize the oneness while disregarding the threeness ends in unitarianism. To emphasize the threeness while disregarding the oneness leads to tritheism (as in Mormonism). To accept both leads to the doctrine of the triunity of God.

I emphasize the oneness without disregarding the threeness. Nevertheless I do emphasize the oneness in order to fight against the second mistake.

Believe it or not, @Dave L, you have more in common with @Jane_Doe22 than you would like to realize.

 

[Dave L]

Tritheism is not confined to Mormonism; it can be a misunderstanding of the Trinity among Trinitarians in which the Oneness of the Lord is missed.



I emphasize the oneness without disregarding the threeness. Nevertheless I do emphasize the oneness in order to fight against the second mistake.

Believe it or not, @Dave L, you have more in common with @Jane_Doe22 than you would like to realize.

Judged by your own words.

 

[Dave L]

Again: even the documentation is false. The sources they quote aren't even LDS doctrinal sources.

For a third time: I don't care if anyone agree with my beliefs. Totally don't care. But trying to "disprove" something no one believes is just downright silly. Let us instead by earnest disciples of Christ, and get our facts straight.

For example, Smith preached a sermon in 1844 titled “The Christian Godhead—Plurality Godheads,” in which he said:

I will preach the plurality of Gods, … I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit.… Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one and one in three!10


Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 195). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

 

[justbyfaith]

"I have heard that Mormonism...", "I have heard that Jehovah's Witnesses...", "I have heard that Catholicism..." etc., etc.

This is all "hear say", we are not interested in hear say, someones always spouting off about the beliefs of one group or another and rather than go directly to the source to see what "they themselves" believe and practice they rely on the "hear say" of others most of which if one were to actually take the time to investigate they would find comes from some group or individual with an agenda, some anti-Catholic, anti-Witness, or in this case some anti-Mormon.

Unless you yourself were a Mormon at one time and had actually reached this supposed deeper understanding nothing you have presented here is of any vitality its merely "hear say".

Even hearsay can have the ring of truth and be valid information.

I believe that the source from which I "heard" what you are calling "hearsay" was someone who had been steeped in Mormonism for many years and had escaped the cult.

If "hearsay" isn't valid, then the only people even qualified to fight against false doctrines such as this are those who have been in the cult and escaped...and those who heard their testimony do not have a leg to stand on in repeating what they have heard.

So, if you want to fight against a false doctrine, you have to go and become fully immersed in it first, fully believing in it; and only then are you qualified to speak about it to other people.

That certainly limits the number of people who will be able to fight against false doctrine in the eternal scheme of things; thus I can already see that this idea will lead to satan having a hayday with deceiving people with false doctrine.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

For example, Smith preached a sermon in 1844 titled “The Christian Godhead—Plurality Godheads,” in which he said:

I will preach the plurality of Gods, … I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit.… Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one and one in three!10


Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 195). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

Once again, this isn't even an LDS doctrinal source. Your book keeps giving you junk info.

 

[Dave L]

Once again, this isn't even an LDS doctrinal source. Your book keeps giving you junk info.

Mormonism departs from historic Christian »orthodoxy in its teachings about God. The Christian church has always taught and maintained that God exists in himself apart from creation and that he is one. The Hebrew Shema, “Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one” (Deut. 6:4), is enjoined by the first commandment of the Decalogue (Ex. 20:3–5). God does not share his sovereignty or his divinity with any aspect of the cosmos.
Against Smith’s contention that the triune God is “a strange God,” the church teaches that the »Trinity is indeed a scriptural doctrine. Summarizing such passages as Matthew 28:19; Mark 1:10–11; 2 Corinthians 13:14; and the like, the Athanasian Creed (Appendix 1) states clearly the historic doctrine of the Trinity:

And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in three persons and three persons in one God, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one.11


Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 195). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

 

[justbyfaith]

Judged by your own words.

The second mistake being what is spoken of here:

To emphasize the threeness while disregarding the oneness leads to tritheism (as in Mormonism).

 

[Dave L]

Even hearsay can have the ring of truth and be valid information.

I believe that the source from which I "heard" what you are calling "hearsay" was someone who had been steeped in Mormonism for many years and had escaped the cult.

If "hearsay" isn't valid, then the only people even qualified to fight against false doctrines such as this are those who have been in the cult and escaped...and those who heard their testimony do not have a leg to stand on in repeating what they have heard.

So, if you want to fight against a false doctrine, you have to go and become fully immersed in it first, fully believing in it; and only then are you qualified to speak about it to other people.

That certainly limits the number of people who will be able to fight against false doctrine in the eternal scheme of things; thus I can already see that this idea will lead to satan having a hayday with deceiving people with false doctrine.

This doesn't make sense. Did Jesus become a Satanist before he spoke against evil?

 

[Dave L]

The second mistake being what is spoken of here:

One serious error is only the tip of the iceberg. I can point out many errors in your belief system.

 

[justbyfaith]

One serious error is only the tip of the iceberg. I can point out many errors in your belief system.

By all means. I am all ears.

(if you love me with any kind of Christian love you will not hesitate to show me the error of my ways):

Jas 5:19, Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20, Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

"I have heard that Mormonism...", "I have heard that Jehovah's Witnesses...", "I have heard that Catholicism..." etc., etc.

This is all "hear say", we are not interested in hear say, someones always spouting off about the beliefs of one group or another and rather than go directly to the source to see what "they themselves" believe and practice they rely on the "hear say" of others most of which if one were to actually take the time to investigate they would find comes from some group or individual with an agenda, some anti-Catholic, anti-Witness, or in this case some anti-Mormon.

Unless you yourself were a Mormon at one time and had actually reached this supposed deeper understanding nothing you have presented here is of any vitality its merely "hear say".

One thing I've noticed about "anti-cult" apologists-
They create this idea that "oh, these poor people are brainwashed, they just believe what they've been told and haven't put any thought into it." And then they proceed to "educate" people and just urge the audience member to just listen to the anti-cultist apologist without putting any thought into it. Independent verification from firsthand is directly put down and discouraged-- you're just supposed to take the anti-cultist apologist words for everything.

It's a great irony.

Meanwhile, I LOVE visiting other churches, listening to their sermons, having high quality discussions about what people believe and why. I don't always agree with everything, but I find great fulfillment in better understanding this -- it deepens my love my fellow men so much.

 

[justbyfaith]

This doesn't make sense. Did Jesus become a Satanist before he spoke against evil?

No kidding, it doesn't make sense.

My argument is that hearsay can be a valid source of information.

 

[Dave L]

By all means. I am all ears.

(if you love me with any kind of Christian love you will not hesitate to show me the error of my ways):

Jas 5:19, Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20, Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

One thing I've noticed about "anti-cult" apologists-
They create this idea that "oh, these poor people are brainwashed, they just believe what they've been told and haven't put any thought into it." And then they proceed to "educate" people and just urge the audience member to just listen to the anti-cultist apologist without putting any thought into it. Independent verification from firsthand is directly put down and discouraged-- you're just supposed to take the anti-cultist apologist words for everything.

It's a great irony.

Meanwhile, I LOVE visiting other churches, listening to their sermons, having high quality discussions about what people believe and why. I don't always agree with everything, but I find great fulfillment in better understanding this -- it deepens my love my fellow men so much.

If they document their findings from original cult spokespersons, what's the problem?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Mormonism departs from historic Christian »orthodoxy in its teachings about God. The Christian church has always taught and maintained that God exists in himself apart from creation and that he is one. The Hebrew Shema, “Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one” (Deut. 6:4), is enjoined by the first commandment of the Decalogue (Ex. 20:3–5). God does not share his sovereignty or his divinity with any aspect of the cosmos.
Against Smith’s contention that the triune God is “a strange God,” the church teaches that the »Trinity is indeed a scriptural doctrine. Summarizing such passages as Matthew 28:19; Mark 1:10–11; 2 Corinthians 13:14; and the like, the Athanasian Creed (Appendix 1) states clearly the historic doctrine of the Trinity:

And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in three persons and three persons in one God, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one.11


Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 195). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

I keep showing you how this book is actively giving you false information, and yet you keep quoting from it...

 

[Dave L]

I keep showing you how this book is actively giving you false information, and yet you keep quoting from it...

everything I post against Mormonism is documented using Mormon sources.