Some good information for Dave

[Jane_Doe22]

You still do not refute any of their claims or fully disclose the Mormon doctrine of the trinity.

It's literally in post #2. And we talked more about it in the following posts.
And yes, I thoroughly addressed the actual beliefs here.

 

[Dave L]

Another junk book that can't be bothered to get it's facts straight (and yes, I have read that exact book).

This book reveals much about contemporary cults to any interested.

 

[Taken]

Justbyfaith ~

Which definition of cult would you apply to Mormonism?
and

Which definition of cult would you apply to Christianity?

Islam?

Buddhism?

cult
/kəlt/
noun

1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
   
   • 
     2. a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
     
     synonyms: sect, religious group, denomination, religious order, church, faith, faith community, belief, persuasion, affiliation, movement; More
     
     
   • 3. a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
     "a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
     synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for; More
     

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

It's literally in post #2. And we talked more about it in the following posts.
And yes, I thoroughly addressed the actual beliefs here.

You still do not make full disclosure of your beliefs trying to pass yourself off as orthodox christian.

 

[Dave L]

12. Mormonism; Jesus’ deity is no more unique than all of humankind; No real parallel—hints of Ebionism, Arianism, and Dynamic Monarchianism


Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 470). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You still do not make full disclosure of your beliefs trying to pass yourself off as orthodox christian.

I literally highlight the differences in it's own paragraph

The difference comes in:
LDS Christians believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through unity.
Athanasian Christians believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through consubstantiation.

Can't get anymore direct than that.

 

[Dave L]

I literally highlight the differences in it's own paragraph

Can't get anymore direct than that.

This is not a full disclosure. This is; Tritheism (MORMONISM). The belief in three separate gods, and hence the denial of the Christian »Trinity. Tritheism is a form of polytheism.

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 458). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

This is not a full disclosure. This is; Tritheism (MORMONISM). The belief in three separate gods, and hence the denial of the Christian »Trinity. Tritheism is a form of polytheism.

I specifically discussed how I am not an Athanasian Christian.
I did not say that I am a polytheist, because that is not my belief nor the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 458). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

Is a book full of false info.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yeah, this video is an great example of low-quality "anti-cultists" that for some reason can't be bothered to discuss about actual beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Literally the entire video is completely off base.

I don't care if someone disagrees with my beliefs- that's totally their right, and I disagree with many other people's beliefs. But it is silly to try to base an argument off of things which aren't even believed.

The point is these beliefs were preached by Brigham Young, and though now outlawed as is also polygamy, there are still some who want to practice them. I looked up sermons on this subject in the Journal of Discourses. But the church still believes that the blood of Jesus can't cover some sins, that the blood of the sinner must cover them. How is that belief being fulfilled?

 

[bbyrd009]

I literally highlight the differences in it's own paragraph

Can't get anymore direct than that.

but if he ever shows up lemme know ok

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The point is these beliefs were preached by Brigham Young, and though now outlawed as is also polygamy, there are still some who want to practice them. I looked up sermons on this subject in the Journal of Discourses.

Ok lots of points to address here--
- LDS believe very firmly that the only perfect person to have walked this earth is Christ. All others (including the prophets) are men serving God. Yes, they can be His mouthpieces, but that does not imply constant 24/7 perfection. This includes Brigham Young.
- Following the above, an individual person saying something (whomever that man is) does not make it automatically LDS doctrine. Rather, like every other faith, LDS have a process of accepting formally doctrines/cannon, voices of multiple witnesses, etc.
- The Journal of Discourses has never remotely been accepted as formal doctrines/cannon. It has many problems with it and is NOT a LDS doctrinal source.
- Side note: A low-quality anti-Mormon source will frequently heavily quote form it, while neglecting to tell the reader all of the above, that this is not a actual source of LDS doctrinal source, and these things they're quoting are not actual LDS doctrines.

But the church still believes that the blood of Jesus can't cover some sins, that the blood of the sinner must cover them. How is that belief being fulfilled?

Short answer: this idea never was LDS doctrine and still isn't.

Longer answer: even back in the 1800's this idea was very controversial, highly misunderstood, and never accept by the Church at large (formally or informally). Even Brigham Young himself pretty much abandoned the idea later in his life. Come late 1800's it had been pretty much discarded. In the mid 1900's it was formally discard.

 

[Dave L]

I specifically discussed how I am not an Athanasian Christian.
I did not say that I am a polytheist, because that is not my belief nor the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Is a book full of false info.

But you deny the trinity and assume your own tritheism in place of it.

Tritheism (MORMONISM). The belief in three separate gods, and hence the denial of the Christian »Trinity. Tritheism is a form of polytheism.

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 458). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

b. Mormonism

(1) Mormons speak of the “Holy Trinity”83 but redefine the doctrine into tritheism (i.e., three gods).
(2) James Talmage, one of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon church, states, “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are as distinct in their persons and individualities as are any three personages in mortality.”84
(3) The oneness that exists between the three “personages” in the Godhead is a oneness of purpose and agreement only.85


Alan W. Gomes. (n.d.). Unmasking the Cults.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

But you deny the trinity and assume your own tritheism in place of it.

Tritheism (MORMONISM). The belief in three separate gods, and hence the denial of the Christian »Trinity. Tritheism is a form of polytheism.

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 458). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

b. Mormonism

(1) Mormons speak of the “Holy Trinity”83 but redefine the doctrine into tritheism (i.e., three gods).
(2) James Talmage, one of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon church, states, “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are as distinct in their persons and individualities as are any three personages in mortality.”84
(3) The oneness that exists between the three “personages” in the Godhead is a oneness of purpose and agreement only.85


Alan W. Gomes. (n.d.). Unmasking the Cults.

Dave, I've given you the good information, being entirely honest about what I believe. You keep ignoring those facts in favor of these false ideas from a junk book.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, I've given you the good information, being entirely honest about what I believe. You keep ignoring those facts in favor of these false ideas from a junk book.

The pros who study your cult objectively say differently.

 

[Dave L]

To emphasize the oneness while disregarding the threeness ends in unitarianism. To emphasize the threeness while disregarding the oneness leads to tritheism (as in Mormonism). To accept both leads to the doctrine of the triunity of God.

Ryrie, C. C. (1999). Basic Theology: A Popular Systematic Guide to Understanding Biblical Truth (p. 60). Chicago, IL: Moody Press.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The pros who study your cult objectively say differently.

You mean the professionals who make their money lying in the name of God about what others believe? And selling these lies to unsuspecting Christians?
Quoting them is really not helping your case here.

 

[Dave L]

You mean the professionals who make their money lying in the name of God about what others believe? And selling these lies to unsuspecting Christians?
Quoting them is really not helping your case here.

This is not true. Everything is documented and quoted from Mormon sources. As proven above.

 

[Harvest 1874]

I have heard that Mormonism's definition as a cult is based on the fact that they change the information as you go deeper in, primarily by redefining words.

So, as an initiate Mormon you might be allowed to believe everything that is basically Christian. But as you go deeper in, the understanding changes so that your beliefs become anything but Christian.

The image of doctrine that they portray to the outside world is very different than what most of them actually believe when they get immersed deeper in.

"I have heard that Mormonism...", "I have heard that Jehovah's Witnesses...", "I have heard that Catholicism..." etc., etc.

This is all "hear say", we are not interested in hear say, someones always spouting off about the beliefs of one group or another and rather than go directly to the source to see what "they themselves" believe and practice they rely on the "hear say" of others most of which if one were to actually take the time to investigate they would find comes from some group or individual with an agenda, some anti-Catholic, anti-Witness, or in this case some anti-Mormon.

Unless you yourself were a Mormon at one time and had actually reached this supposed deeper understanding nothing you have presented here is of any vitality its merely "hear say".

 

[Jane_Doe22]

This is not true. Everything is documented and quoted from Mormon sources. As proven above.

Again, the sources they quote aren't even LDS doctrinal sources.
I've already addreseed this fact before, only to have you ignore.

 

[Dave L]

"I have heard that Mormonism...", "I have heard that Jehovah's Witnesses...", "I have heard that Catholicism..." etc., etc.

This is all "hear say", we are not interested in hear say, someones always spouting off about the beliefs of one group or another and rather than go directly to the source to see what "they themselves" believe and practice they rely on the "hear say" of others most of which if one were to actually take the time to investigate they would find comes from some group or individual with an agenda, some anti-Catholic, anti-Witness, or in this case some anti-Mormon.

Unless you yourself were a Mormon at one time and had actually reached this supposed deeper understanding nothing you have presented here is of any vitality its merely "hear say".

Their false beliefs come from their own lips. All of what I said so far has footnotes and documentation.