Soul Sleep yes or no?

[Heart2Soul]

Yes how much plainer does it need to get. Jesus was resurrected with a spiritual body and was able to materialize physical bodies so his Apostles and disciples could see him when he needed to.

When Mary went to His tomb and saw the stone was rolled away she went inside and discovered His body was gone....
Where did His body go?
John 20 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
² Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
³ Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
⁴ So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
⁵ And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
⁶ Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
⁷ And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
⁸ Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
⁹ For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
¹⁰ Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
¹¹ But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
John 20 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹² And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
¹³ And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
¹⁴ And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
¹⁵ Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
¹⁶ Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
¹⁷ Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
¹⁸ Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

 

[quietthinker]

Quietthinker, why do you quote over AJ's Scriptural quote without commenting on the verses she presented, Luke 24:30-31? While Jesus was physically resurrected, it was not in a normal body, such as Lazarus, but a glorified body. The difference seems to be that a glorified body does not decay and can appear and vanish at will, yes?

The texts given are unambiguous. Comment is not necessary.
The word 'spirit' is pliable. It has different uses/meanings according to context. Men willingly ignore context and use it to justify their own imaginings.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yes how much plainer does it need to get. Jesus was resurrected with a spiritual body and was able to materialize physical bodies so his Apostles and disciples could see him when he needed to.

Here is something else to ponder....they never found His body. His grave clothes were still in the tomb...but His body was never to be found.
Why?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Well.....when an idea becomes deeply entrenched, no matter what he scriptures say as a whole, specific verses that appear to support an accepted doctrine are jumped on.

Do tell....such as the ones you use?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do tell....such as the ones you use?

Always used with an understanding of where they fit into the whole Bible narrative.
I find that most Christians do not delve much into what they call “the Old Testament”...perhaps calling it “old” makes them believe that something replaced it.....something "new" that cancelled the "old"?....but that is very far from the truth. Jesus used the Hebrew Scriptures to prove who he was and to quote from them in his teachings. We need to study all the scriptures to make sense of what Jesus taught.....otherwise we end up like the churches, fractured and bickering over what they 'think' he taught. How many ways can you divide the Christ?

Context is everything, but verses plucked out of context or poorly translated give people the wrong ideas. Why do you think Christendom is such a divided mess? They are miles away from what Jesus and his apostles taught. They can’t agree on anything. (1 Corinthians 1:10) How is that not a red flag that perhaps they have all got it wrong? Didn't Jesus say that "few" are on the road to life? The "many" are headed in the opposite direction. (Matthew 7:13-14)
The majority do not have the truth if that is the case...a hated minority do, just like Jesus and his disciples in the first century were despised by the Jews who were whipped up by their leaders to persecute and even murder Christ's followers. Why? Because they made them feel bad about themselves. (John 15:18-21)
It is easier to oppose what you don't want to believe, than to adjust your thinking to accommodate an inconvenient truth. Change is hard....

History repeats because people never learn the lessons from the past and are therefor doomed to repeat them.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Here is something else to ponder....they never found His body. His grave clothes were still in the tomb...but His body was never to be found.
Why?

God promised that his flesh would not see corruption.....his body was taken by God so that no one could claim bits of him to become sacred relics to some people who were want to do that. God did that with Moses body too....no one knew where Moses was buried because God buried him.

 

[Heart2Soul]

God promised that his flesh would not see corruption.....his body was taken by God so that no one could claim bits of him to become sacred relics to some people who were want to do that. God did that with Moses body too....no one knew where Moses was buried because God buried him.

Conjecture...unless you have a scripture confirming this.
The only thing we know about Moses body is that Michael wrestled with Satan over it...
Anything else is conjecture unless you have a scripture to back up what you say happened.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

When Mary went to His tomb and saw the stone was rolled away she went inside and discovered His body was gone....
Where did His body go?
John 20 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
² Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
³ Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
⁴ So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
⁵ And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
⁶ Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
⁷ And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
⁸ Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
⁹ For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
¹⁰ Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
¹¹ But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
John 20 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹² And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
¹³ And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
¹⁴ And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
¹⁵ Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
¹⁶ Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
¹⁷ Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
¹⁸ Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

It's possible for God to do anything such as dispose of a body. God disposed of Moses body and nobody knows where.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Here is something else to ponder....they never found His body. His grave clothes were still in the tomb...but His body was never to be found.
Why?

The prophet Moses was foreshadow of the greatest of all prophet which was Jesus Christ. No one knows we're Moses body is. The same is true of Jesus Christ.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Conjecture...unless you have a scripture confirming this.
The only thing we know about Moses body is that Michael wrestled with Satan over it...
Anything else is conjecture unless you have a scripture to back up what you say happened.

Moses was a foreshadow of the greatest of all prophets which was Jesus Christ. Jesus body was disposed of by God just as Moses body was disposed of by God. Even today no one knows where Moses body is.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Here is something else to ponder....they never found His body. His grave clothes were still in the tomb...but His body was never to be found.
Why?

Because Jesus body was done away by God just as God disposed of Moses body. No one today knows where Moses body is.

 

[Heart2Soul]

It's possible for God to do anything such as dispose of a body. God disposed of Moses body and nobody knows where.

Or it's possible Jesus is still using it...

 

[Heart2Soul]

Moses was a foreshadow of the greatest of all prophets which was Jesus Christ. Jesus body was disposed of by God just as Moses body was disposed of by God. Even today no one knows where Moses body is.

Again this is conjecture...an educated guess based on your assumptions.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Thanks @BARNEY BRIGHT and @Aunty Jane for the discussion.
I am going to move on from this thread since it is an endless repetition of an age old argument amongst theologians and bible scholars and every denomination out there that teaches from the KJV.
Ya'll have a blessed night.
In all things give God the Glory.
Amen!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The texts given are unambiguous. Comment is not necessary.
The word 'spirit' is pliable. It has different uses/meanings according to context. Men willingly ignore context and use it to justify their own imaginings.

1Corinthians 15:44 shows us there are physical bodies, visible and palpable, there are also spiritual bodies , invisible to human eyes and entirely beyond human senses.
At 1 Peter 3:18 In this Greek text the words "flesh" and "Spirit" are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator translates 1 Peter 3:18 with the phrase "by the spirit" he should consistently say "by the flesh," or if he uses a phrase such as "in the flesh" he should consistently say "in the spirit."
Angels had in the past materialized physical bodies to talk to human servants of the true God, such as when the True God sent angels of the True God to talk to Abraham just before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah and other times that God sent angels to talk to other of his human servants. The point I'm trying to make here is that Jesus didn't have a glorified physical body but an actual spiritual body that was immortal and incorruptible. Jesus could materialize physical bodies just as angels did in the past. However the angels are neither immortal or incorruptible.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Or it's possible Jesus is still using it...

According to the scriptures Jesus was resurrected with a spiritual body. At 1Peter 3:18 the words flesh and Spirit are contrasted with each other and are in the dative case. So if a translator says put to death "by the flesh" he should consistently say made alive "by the spirit" or if he uses put to death " in the flesh" he should consistantly say made alive "in the spirit."

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Again this is conjecture...an educated guess based on your assumptions.

Moses was a foreshadow of Jesus Christ, that's scripture not conjecture. Plus scripture shows that Jesus was resurrected as a spiritual person who was immortal and incorruptible, and as I said at 1Peter 3:18 the words Spirit and flesh are contrasted with each other. Jesus wasn't resurrected with a glorified physical body, he was resurrected with a immortal incorruptible spiritual body

 

[Davy]

1Corinthians 15:44 shows us there are physical bodies, visible and palpable, there are also spiritual bodies , invisible to human eyes and entirely beyond human senses.
At 1 Peter 3:18 In this Greek text the words "flesh" and "Spirit" are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator translates 1 Peter 3:18 with the phrase "by the spirit" he should consistently say "by the flesh," or if he uses a phrase such as "in the flesh" he should consistently say "in the spirit."
Angels had in the past materialized physical bodies to talk to human servants of the true God, such as when the True God sent angels of the True God to talk to Abraham just before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah and other times that God sent angels to talk to other of his human servants. The point I'm trying to make here is that Jesus didn't have a glorified physical body but an actual spiritual body that was immortal and incorruptible. Jesus could materialize physical bodies just as angels did in the past. However the angels are neither immortal or incorruptible.

That's not what God's Word actually teaches, particularly in the New Testament.

There is no... written Scripture anywhere in God's Word that shows angels appearing on earth with the image of man, that they somehow 'materialized' a flesh body to appear in.

No, the way they appeared on earth is the same way they appear in Heaven. God said He created Adam after 'Our' likeness and image, and that image is the image of man. It began with God's Own Image, not with the flesh man Adam.

Many today are so attached to their flesh, that they cannot understand about the heavenly dimension being a totally separate dimension of existence than flesh.

We have two bodies, one is made up of spirit, and the other one is our flesh. The one of spirit is not made up of earthly matter, it is eternal incorruptible like Apostle Paul showed in 2 Corinthians 5.

I tend to declare a lot what Lord Jesus was showing Nicodemus in John 3. It's because there Jesus showed these two separate dimensions when He said 'that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit'. What is it that is 'born again' He was pointing to? our flesh body, or our spirit that's inside our flesh body? The latter of course.

At flesh death our spirit inside our flesh body is loosed, and goes back to God. Our soul (person) is attached to it, and this is how the story Jesus gave in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man taken to Paradise is how it really is.

 

[theefaith]

What sects actually teach soul sleep?

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Lk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

 

[theefaith]

When Mary went to His tomb and saw the stone was rolled away she went inside and discovered His body was gone....
Where did His body go?
John 20 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
² Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
³ Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
⁴ So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
⁵ And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
⁶ Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
⁷ And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
⁸ Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
⁹ For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
¹⁰ Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
¹¹ But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
John 20 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹² And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
¹³ And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
¹⁴ And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
¹⁵ Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
¹⁶ Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
¹⁷ Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
¹⁸ Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

it’s the same body that is glorified
But it still has the outward sign of crucifixtion