Soul sleep

[n2thelight]

n2thelight,

You have taken most of this material word for word from this website: http://www.newchurch.org/societies/dawsonCreek/about/beliefs/God/articles/resurrection

Is this your website or have you plagiarised it?

This material that you have quoted is from an heretical Swedenborgian church that is Preterist in its eschatology - the Second Coming has taken place and is now taking place. It has other heretical doctrines, some of which are articulated HERE.

Do you support Swedenborg theology?

Oz

Post 239,I gave the source so stop with the accusations...I support what I posted...

 

[kerwin]

Not at all, because "destruction" carries with it the intrinsic characteristic of permanence, which is never associated with the First Death, hence the reason it is repeatedly referred to as "sleep" by Jesus, Job, Paul, etc. --- because God knows the First Death is temporary until the time when they "that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 KJV)

"Sleep" is never associated with the permanence of the Second Death, except in the case of Jeremiah 51 where twice he says the wicked will "sleep a perpetual sleep". Notice the qualifier "perpetual", which disqualifies this as a reference to the First Death for the reason given above.

Therefore, since the worst a man can do to another is only temporary, God alone is able to render the "destruction" of a soul - the permanence of the Second Death.

The body can be destroyed in the first death but not the soul and it is not permanent when it is destroyed the in the first death because it recombines when it is changed to an immortal body. According to prophesy destroyed means killed as their corpses are existing eternally and the maggots that eat of them never die.

I think sleep means an altered state of consciousness. It is also called rest.

 

[kerwin]

Post 239,I gave the source so stop with the accusations...I support what I posted...

It is correct to credit the source on each and every post you cite.

 

[OzSpen]

Post 239,I gave the source so stop with the accusations...I support what I posted...

I quoted you at #238 and you did NOT give the source. You did it at #239 but I was replying to #238. You plagiarised the material at #238 by not identifying where you got it.

You still haven't told me whether you are a supporter of Swenborgian theology that promotes the Preterist view of eschatology and has an unorthodox view of the Trinity.

 

[n2thelight]

I quoted you at #238 and you did NOT give the source. You did it at #239 but I was replying to #238. You plagiarised the material at #238 by not identifying where you got it.

You still haven't told me whether you are a supporter of Swenborgian theology that promotes the Preterist view of eschatology and has an unorthodox view of the Trinity.

Like I said,I support what I posted....

You wanna talk about that or just me ?

 

[OzSpen]

Post 239,I gave the source so stop with the accusations...I support what I posted...

So you support the heretical Swenborgian theology of Preterist eschatology that Jesus' Second Coming has taken place and is taking place? Is this what you believe?

 

[OzSpen]

Like I said,I support what I posted....

You wanna talk about that or just me ?

Admit what you did. At #238 you committed plagiarism. You stolen another person's writing and did not give credit in that post.

To acknowledge in #239 your source is to admit that I caught you out with your plagiarism at #238.

Do you admit to being a follower of Swedenborg and that theology?

 

[n2thelight]

Admit what you did. At #238 you committed plagiarism. You stolen another person's writing and did not give credit in that post.

To acknowledge in #239 your source is to admit that I caught you out with your plagiarism at #238.

Do you admit to being a follower of Swedenborg and that theology?

What part you not understanding?

Post 239 was a continuation of 238,so get off it...........

 

[OzSpen]

What part you not understanding?

Post 239 was a continuation of 238,so get off it...........

I understand perfectly. You plagiarised at #238. There was nothing at the end of #238 to say that it was continuing.

Secondly, you refuse to admit you are a follower of Swenborg's Preterism.

 

[Born_Again]

Okay guys, before we take off on SwedishChef Peterism Theology (LOL I couldnt resist) lets remember what the OP is. Unless you can tie the two together in a smorgasbord of theology.

 

[StanJ]

Like I said,I support what I posted....
You wanna talk about that or just me ?

Is not a matter of what you support it is a matter of whether or not the Bible support what you assert. Instead of arguing technicalities are striving about words how about you just exegete the scripture and show us how it supports your point of view? If you make it about you and your word then that's what it becomes.

 

[OzSpen]

Okay guys, before we take off on SwedishChef Peterism Theology (LOL I couldnt resist) lets remember what the OP is. Unless you can tie the two together in a smorgasbord of theology.

BA,

n2the light has stated, 'I believe the resurrection happens at death'. That is taken from the Swedenborg church website which he plagiarised.

So is the OP of 'Soul Sleep' related to 'the resurrection happens at death'?

Oz

 

[kerwin]

You looked it up? How does that make you right because you looked it up? It doesn't matter how much you look up, if you don't understand what you're reading you can't possibly know it is right and despite people who do know telling you you're wrong you still don't believe. How long have you been studying the Bible? A month, two months, six months. Again what exactly is your mother tongue? You see you failed to answer all these questions even though they've been asked of you several times so I have a distinct feeling that you're hiding something that you don't want anybody to know but that will verify my instinct and recognition of your infancy in this regard. Try reading the following link. It may have a lot of words you don't understand but it does contain truth.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/soul/

You ask the questions of the world?

Credentials are those written on the heart. (2 Corinthians 3:2) The rest you asked about my credentials is irrelevant.

I agree with most if not all of what he argues though it could be argued more clearly. He seems to be a supporter of the KJV though I am not sure if it is the AV of it or not. He does mention any changes in the word "soul" occurring since the 17th Century.

 

[kerwin]

BA,

n2the light has stated, 'I believe the resurrection happens at death'. That is taken from the Swedenborg church website which he plagiarised.

So is the OP of 'Soul Sleep' related to 'the resurrection happens at death'?

Oz

Yes, since soul sleep could not occur if that were true; which it isn't. He could have just said that and avoided a lot of unnecessary reading on the parts of those that actually read it. After looking at the site I see they are basing their doctrine are cultural beliefs and then interpreting Scriptures to support them

Soul sleep is correct if interpreted as an altered state of mine and not non-existence. I was surprised anyone held the later viewpoint but then I am often surprised by strange tenets.

 

[StanJ]

You ask the questions of the world?

Credentials are those written on the heart. (2 Corinthians 3:2) The rest you asked about my credentials is irrelevant.

I agree with most if not all of what he argues though it could be argued more clearly. He seems to be a supporter of the KJV though I am not sure if it is the AV of it or not. He does mention any changes in the word "soul" occurring since the 17th Century.

I ask the questions of one who determines the spirit of something I see and I do not see truth in your responses.

 

[Phoneman777]

PROOF THAT THE LIVING SOUL EXISTS ONLY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE UNION OF THE BODY AND THE SPIRIT:

Hebrews 4:12 KJV is written in "Hebrew Chiastic Structure" - an example of Hebrew poetry where not words, but ideas are rhymed. Chiasms abound in Scripture and stand as a guard against misinterpretation of them, especially the prophetic passages. The verse says that the Word of God is capable of "...piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, of the joints and marrow..." A joint is formed where two marrow-filled bones meet and pivot upon each other. If the components of this joint are separated and spread out upon a table, does the joint yet exist or cease to exist? No one will argue that it does.

Since Genesis 2:7 KJV plainly states that a "Living Soul" is comprised of the union of the Body and the Spirit, therefore, by recognizing and not disregarding the Chiasm here in Hebrews 4:12 KJV, we must conclude that just in the case where the separation of the marrow from the joint causes the joint to cease from existence, so then the dividing of the spirit from the soul causes the same state of non-existence of the soul.

 

[kerwin]

I ask the questions of one who determines the spirit of something I see and I do not see truth in your responses.

Then you would not see the truth in Paul's response as I only did as I saw him do.

You should judge, me or in fact anyone, by their fruit but when you do be careful to remove the wood beam or sawdust from your eye.

 

[kerwin]

PROOF THAT THE LIVING SOUL EXISTS ONLY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE UNION OF THE BODY AND THE SPIRIT:

Hebrews 4:12 KJV is written in "Hebrew Chiastic Structure" - an example of Hebrew poetry where not words, but ideas are rhymed. Chiasms abound in Scripture and stand as a guard against misinterpretation of them, especially the prophetic passages. The verse says that the Word of God is capable of "...piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, of the joints and marrow..." A joint is formed where two marrow-filled bones meet and pivot upon each other. If the components of this joint are separated and spread out upon a table, does the joint yet exist or cease to exist? No one will argue that it does.

Since Genesis 2:7 KJV plainly states that a "Living Soul" is comprised of the union of the Body and the Spirit, therefore, by recognizing and not disregarding the Chiasm here in Hebrews 4:12 KJV, we must conclude that just in the case where the separation of the marrow from the joint causes the joint to cease from existence, so then the dividing of the spirit from the soul causes the same state of non-existence of the soul.

Hebrews 4:12 is wording that seems to be able to be translated in multiple ways.

Hebrews 4:12Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)

12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

This one is worded different than to the KJV you use which may be the AV.

Hebrews 4:12Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I hypothesize the interpretation-translation was chosen based on what they believed was more in tune with their particular doctrine or the doctrine of the majority in those case that involved a multi-doctrine group of translators.

Your argument is therefore based on an unsound premise.

 

[StanJ]

Then you would not see the truth in Paul's response as I only did as I saw him do.
You should judge, me or in fact anyone, by their fruit but when you do be careful to remove the wood beam or sawdust from your eye.

I guess that just shows how well I understand what I read and how you don't, but in any event it's not a case of judging it's a case of recognizing.

 

[kerwin]

I guess that just shows how well I understand what I read and how you don't, but in any event it's not a case of judging it's a case of recognizing.

You boast about what you do not understand. I pity you for your lack of knowledge but I know Jesus spoke true when he said "You will recognize them by their fruits". Why do you doubt?