Sound Doctrine

[Marymog]

Hi Mary, I don't think that Rollo needs to "redeem" himself. That job is only something Jesus can do.

I've learned that sometimes you just have to let things go. If I burst a blood vessel every time someone on this forum said something insulting to me, I prolly would've had a heart attach by now. Just some advice from someone older and, hopefully, wiser.
.

Love the redeem joke! Very witty.

Good advise....I'm letting it go.

 

[Marymog]

Um, I don't think most Protestants reject tradition. I can't even tell you what most Protestants think about it, and I've been a Protestant for a loooooog time. Let's face it. Protestants and Catholics have COMPLETELY different beliefs about this. Most Protestants I know would reject the idea that "oral tradition" trumps the written word (i.e. the Bible) and would believe the Roman Catholic Church is way off on this.

Thank you PW.

I guess we would have to define "most Protestants". I have no expectation of you answering the following questions. They are just things that are happening in Christianity that seem to go opposite of your suggestion and opposite of Tradition:

Traditionally (for 2,000 years) Christians have been gathering on Sunday to break bread. How many Protestant churches still do that?

Traditionally (for 2,000 years) it has been believed that the bread during that Church service becomes His body. How many Protestant churches still believe that?

Traditionally (for 2,000 years) Christians have believed that baptism saves. How many Protestant churches still believe that?

Traditionally gay marriage, woman pastors, gay/married pastors and abortion were never even considered acceptable by Christianity. How many Protestant churches practice those now and say scripture backs up their practice?

Do you have any examples of The Church accepting "oral tradition" over the Bible? I am not aware of any off the top of my head.

Mary

 

[Episkopos]

Do you have any examples of The Church accepting "oral tradition" over the Bible? I am not aware of any off the top of my head.

Say...the immaculate conception of Mary. Infant baptism. Transubstantiation. Statues. Sacraments. Hierarchies. Also bringing in the roman pontiff teaching which is pagan (there were always pontiffs to the gods in ancient Rome). Also the primacy of Rome. Praying to (and for ) the dead. Praying to Mary (because Jesus is busy). Creeds. Crusades. Inquisitions.

The list trails on and on and on. But the thing that is the most dishonest is this defence of what is blatanlty false and evil.

I got tired of this site some years ago because of some hyper-RCC people that came on here spouting ridiculous things and being very brash about it. Lord save us from hyper indoctrinated people.

 

[Marymog]

Say...the immaculate conception of Mary. Infant baptism. Transubstantiation. Statues. Sacraments. Hierarchies. Also bringing in the roman pontiff teaching which is pagan (there were always pontiffs to the gods in ancient Rome). Also the primacy of Rome. Praying to (and for ) the dead. Praying to Mary (because Jesus is busy). Creeds. Crusades. Inquisitions.

The list trails on and on and on. But the thing that is the most dishonest is this defence of what is blatanlty false and evil.

I got tired of this site some years ago because of some hyper-RCC people that came on here spouting ridiculous things and being very brash about it. Lord save us from hyper indoctrinated people.

Hi,

Which traditions do you accept that are not in Scripture?

Mary

BTW....I find your chosen screen name (Episkopos) fascinating. Why did you choose it?

 

[Episkopos]

Hi,

Which traditions do you accept that are not in Scripture?

Mary

BTW....I find your chosen screen name (Episkopos) fascinating. Why did you choose it?

I am against any kind of organized religion in the name of Jesus. I believe in a close relational friendship with God and His people. Keep it simple and real... No need for titles and religious shows.

Episkopos: At that time I was doing a major study about oversight in the church. Episkopos, means overseer but also inspector, visitor... Episkopai means visitation. As in...visitation from God. So then Episkopos is one who has been visited and inspected by God and entrusted to help others come into the fulness of the calling in Christ.

I have also been an overseer in a fellowship for close to 20 years now. I don't expect anyone on this site to understand this...but I was visited and anointed by God to do what I do. I am in full time ministry...since around that time...about 18 years or so.

So then the word episkopos has a special significance for me. I like the "visitation" definition.

He who desires to be visited by God desires a good thing. I don't see an overseer as an office...but as a function..to lead God's people by example and sound instruction. One who has been inspected can then help others through inspection and preparation...hopefully to be inspected in turn by God.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The following is a quote from the Papal Encyclical of Pope Pius IX (1854), The Immaculate Conception, section "Interpreters of the Sacred Scripture."

Hence, just as Christ, the Mediator between God and man, assumed human nature, blotted the handwriting of the decree that stood against us, and fastened it triumphantly to the cross, so the most holy Virgin, united with him by a most intimate and indissoluble bond, was, with him and through him, eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely triumphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot.
​

Under the section "The Definition," second paragraph:

Hence, if anyone shall dare — which God forbid! — to think otherwise than as has been defined by us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment; that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith; that he has separated from the unity of the Church; and that, furthermore, by his own action he incurs the penalties established by law if he should are to express in words or writing or by any other outward means the errors he think in his heart.​

Ineffabilis Deus - Papal Encyclicals

​

 

[Nancy]

Thank you. I understand what you are saying and get the gist of your beliefs.

One just has to ask: How did they (Luke and Acts) get into Scripture if we really don't KNOW who wrote them and how reliable the writer is? We BELIEVE they are reliable because to the men of The Church AFFIRMED they were reliable and that those writings should be in Scripture. There were many other "extra-biblical" (Clemet, Barnabas, Didache etc.) writings that these same men considered putting in scripture but ultimately didn't.

My point/question is, if you rely on these men as your "final authority" for what belongs in your bible then why don't you rely on these men for other things of "final authority"? How can they be smart/inspired enough to know what books belong in our bible but not smart/inspired enough to know how to interpret those books?

Mary

Okay Mary, I will try to say this one more way and i must be done with it. If it is in the bible that I have been using for a very long time and, it's in there...I believe it is Gods living Word revealed to ME through the Holy Spirit. I believe what the bible say's in 2 Tim.3:16 that "All scripture is God Breathed...." God does NOT depend on "men" to reveal His truth, only the Holy Spirit. I sure hope, for your own peace of mind, if anything, that you can learn to pray for discernment when reading His Word alone, be blessed. And it does not matter if one is "smart" enough for the Holy Spirit to teach us, like God has to depend on human intelligence?? That would be funny if it weren't so sad.

 

[Grams]

I just spotted this post, and wonder if any one knows there is a group called
sound doctrine ? They sing in Mich. and other places at times and are real good...
I guess no one has ! I posted this earlier and got no response .

They are a good group of christens that is why I mentioned this..........

 

[Helen]

I just spotted this post, and wonder if any one knows there is a group called
sound doctrine ? They sing in Mich. and other places at times and are real good...
I guess no one has ! I posted this earlier and got no response .

They are a good group of christens that is why I mentioned this..........

Hey Grams...No, I've never heard of them.
I will check them out on YouTube and see it anyone has posted a video of them.

Bless you...Helen

 

[Marymog]

I am against any kind of organized religion in the name of Jesus. I believe in a close relational friendship with God and His people. Keep it simple and real... No need for titles and religious shows.

Episkopos: At that time I was doing a major study about oversight in the church. Episkopos, means overseer but also inspector, visitor... Episkopai means visitation. As in...visitation from God. So then Episkopos is one who has been visited and inspected by God and entrusted to help others come into the fulness of the calling in Christ.

I have also been an overseer in a fellowship for close to 20 years now. I don't expect anyone on this site to understand this...but I was visited and anointed by God to do what I do. I am in full time ministry...since around that time...about 18 years or so.

So then the word episkopos has a special significance for me. I like the "visitation" definition.

He who desires to be visited by God desires a good thing. I don't see an overseer as an office...but as a function..to lead God's people by example and sound instruction. One who has been inspected can then help others through inspection and preparation...hopefully to be inspected in turn by God.

Thank you Episkopos. I love to learn new words. Unfortunately the only time I am able to find the word "Episkopai" using a search engine (Google Scholar in this case) it has the word associated to archbishops and bishops not "visitation" as you alluded to. As you know the word Episkopos is also associated to overseer, supervisor, ruler, especially used with reference to the supervising function exercised by an elder or presbyter of a church or congregation.

What I am confused by is how you can say you are an "overseer" in your fellowship but you reject organized religion and have no need for titles. However, you have taken the title of a church leader. I am confused by your contradictory statements and practices. Can you explain your thought process better to help clear my confusion up?

Mary

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_u...1-6e2G75xFz6pqKH07oRXU4KA&nossl=1&ws=1684x816

 

[Marymog]

Okay Mary, I will try to say this one more way and i must be done with it. If it is in the bible that I have been using for a very long time and, it's in there...I believe it is Gods living Word revealed to ME through the Holy Spirit. I believe what the bible say's in 2 Tim.3:16 that "All scripture is God Breathed...." God does NOT depend on "men" to reveal His truth, only the Holy Spirit. I sure hope, for your own peace of mind, if anything, that you can learn to pray for discernment when reading His Word alone, be blessed. And it does not matter if one is "smart" enough for the Holy Spirit to teach us, like God has to depend on human intelligence?? That would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Thank you Nancy.

I certainly don't understand what you are trying to say. If God didn't depend on men to reveal His Truth then how did we, as Christians, get the 27 books of the NT? Why not 30 or 22? Men, inspired by God, decided and they disagreed about what books belonged in the Bible for 300 years after the death of Christ. You used your own "human intelligence" to come to your conclusion. They used their "human intelligence" to come to their conclusion.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you.....none the less...God bless.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I am against any kind of organized religion in the name of Jesus. I believe in a close relational friendship with God and His people. Keep it simple and real... No need for titles and religious shows.

Episkopos: At that time I was doing a major study about oversight in the church. Episkopos, means overseer but also inspector, visitor... Episkopai means visitation. As in...visitation from God. So then Episkopos is one who has been visited and inspected by God and entrusted to help others come into the fulness of the calling in Christ.

I have also been an overseer in a fellowship for close to 20 years now. I don't expect anyone on this site to understand this...but I was visited and anointed by God to do what I do. I am in full time ministry...since around that time...about 18 years or so.

So then the word episkopos has a special significance for me. I like the "visitation" definition.

He who desires to be visited by God desires a good thing. I don't see an overseer as an office...but as a function..to lead God's people by example and sound instruction. One who has been inspected can then help others through inspection and preparation...hopefully to be inspected in turn by God.

Hi,

I can't find an answer to my question: Which traditions do you accept that are not in Scripture? (2nd try)

(I know of at least two traditions that you and I agree on)

Patient Mary

 

[Episkopos]

Hi,

I can't find an answer to my question: Which traditions do you accept that are not in Scripture? (2nd try)

(I know of at least two traditions that you and I agree on)

Patient Mary

I can't think of one. We follow apostolic tradition as we can.

 

[Marymog]

I can't think of one. We follow apostolic tradition as we can.

If you can't think of one Tradition that you accept then how can you state that you "follow apostolic tradition"?

Maybe you miss-spoke?

Here are two traditions you follow: According to tradition Luke wrote Luke and Acts (Scripture doesn't say who wrote it). According to tradition you have accepted the 27 books of the NT as inspired, God breathed Scripture, since scripture doesn't tell us what books belong in the NT.

Traditional Mary

 

[Enoch111]

...since scripture doesn't tell us what books belong in the NT.

We have gone over this before but you continue to ignore facts. There are just five books in the Bible which do not clearly state that they are divinely inspired, yet they have been accepted as Scripture from the time of the apostles.

 

[Marymog]

We have gone over this before but you continue to ignore facts. There are just five books in the Bible which do not clearly state that they are divinely inspired, yet they have been accepted as Scripture from the time of the apostles.

Hi Enoch.

I can't find where "We have gone over this before...". Can you please reference the post # that WE have been over this before? I can't find it in a search.

Thank you in advance.

Mary

 

[Enoch111]

Can you please reference the post # that WE have been over this before?

It may not have been directed to you personally, and I too would have a hard time finding it at this time. However, to sum up:

1. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself confirmed that our entire OT canon is inspired. He EXCLUDED the so-called Deuterocanonicals.
2. Peter confirmed that all of Paul's epistles are Scripture. That's 51% of the NT.
3. The remaining NT books bear internal testimony to their divine inspiration. Only Matthew, Mark, Acts, James, and Jude do not plainly claim inspiration, but have been regarded as such since the second century.

 

[farouk]

Purgatory -- just like the Mass -- makes a mockery of the finished work of Christ.

"It is finished" indeed!

 

[Marymog]

It may not have been directed to you personally, and I too would have a hard time finding it at this time. However, to sum up:

1. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself confirmed that our entire OT canon is inspired. He EXCLUDED the so-called Deuterocanonicals.
2. Peter confirmed that all of Paul's epistles are Scripture. That's 51% of the NT.
3. The remaining NT books bear internal testimony to their divine inspiration. Only Matthew, Mark, Acts, James, and Jude do not plainly claim inspiration, but have been regarded as such since the second century.

Thank you.

1. Where in scripture did Jesus say he was excluding the Deuterocanonical books? Can you explain your statement? That statement is confusing.
2. I assume your referring to 2 Peter 3:16?
3. Since Matthew, Mark, Acts, James and Jude DON'T claim inspiration, how did they end up as one of the 27 books of the NT? Some Churches considered Clement, Ignatius and Polycarp's letters as scripture and read them as such in their churches. Why didn't they make the final cut? Who made that decision?

Mary

 

[farouk]

Thank you.

1. Where in scripture did Jesus say he was excluding the Deuterocanonical books? Can you explain your statement? That statement is confusing.
2. I assume your referring to 2 Peter 3:16?
3. Since Matthew, Mark, Acts, James and Jude DON'T claim inspiration, how did they end up as one of the 27 books of the NT? Some Churches considered Clement, Ignatius and Polycarp's letters as scripture and read them as such in their churches. Why didn't they make the final cut? Who made that decision?

Mary

The issue is their Apostolic Authorship of NT books and the subsequent general recognition of the inherent genuineness of the Bible books.