Spiritual Abuse and Christmas Trees

[John_8:32]

The author fails to mention, the date that is taken from Pagan worship, the fact that ornaments are still involved to deck the trees, mistletoe, yule tide, yule log... Pagan..Pagan...Pagan...Pagan...Pagan.

God made trees. The smell of pine is good for you. Enjoy the beauty, enjoy the scent.

Decking it with ornaments, placing gifts underneath it as it's decorated, celebrating it exclusively on December 25th, Yule Tide, Yule Log, Mistletoe, Stockings... I could go on really.

Also, Jesus wasn't born anywhere near December 25th.

See, the problem is not one something minor, where if you have a tree one would go bananas. Pine trees smell fabulous, and I do believe that, and I love their scent. What's wrong with having a tree? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

The problem is, as I said above, December 25th, the ornaments, the gifts, the mistletoe, stocking, etc. etc. etc.

Deu 12:29 When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;
Deu 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
Deu 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

 

[Raeneske]

Deu 12:29 When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;
Deu 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
Deu 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Amen.

And as far as I can see, adding Christmas to the worship of God (Christmas service), which came from Pagan traditions, is doing exactly what He said not to do. And no kind of speech can change that fact.

And as I said, the tree was never the issue. Cutting down the pine tree, having it outside, or in your home was never the issue. The issue was taking a completely Pagan celebration, and trying to blend it with Christianity. That's the issue. God has warned us about adding these abominations to His worship. Someone may try to shoo me away, or call me a legalist all they want to. It doesn't change the fact that God said, "No, do not do it."

 

[HammerStone]

I thought about this thread when I came across a great post @ Pyromaniacs:

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2012/12/one-day-year.html

[1] It is frankly bizarre to associate what happens these days on December 25th (and the 4-ish weeks prior to 12/25) in the English-speaking world with Roman Catholicism in the theological, ecclesiological, or worshipological senses. That is: there's nobody I know who's celebrating Christmas because the day itself turns out to be more holy – except, of course, some Catholics. The rest of us are considering that Christ, in order to die for our sins in accordance with Scripture, had to be born. Which leads me to ...

The article scores some great points. It's written in the usual tone of Pyromaniacs, but you have to appreciate the humor at which they address some topics.

 

[Axehead]

I thought about this thread when I came across a great post @ Pyromaniacs:

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2012/12/one-day-year.html



The article scores some great points. It's written in the usual tone of Pyromaniacs, but you have to appreciate the humor at which they address some topics.

I like it. I was trying to express this thought that Pyro had.

Now, if that's true – and I'd love to see the person who's willing to say that Christians do not have this kind of obligation – how muchmore obvious is this same obligation on a day which, in the English-speaking world, bears the name of Christ and the whole world is frankly stopped because of it. Last year I published a harmony of the Gospels here at the blog – what if we intentionally gathered as families with both the saved and the sinners and read something like that rather than treating the day as if it's just another day, just like every other day, even though Wall Street and the banks are closed and everyone is frankly looking for something to do?

Opportunities like that don’t just fall out of the sky, especially in a post-Christian culture.

Why are we thinking about ourselves? It always turns out to be a great time to reach out to the Catholics in my family who don't talk about Christ at any other time of the year.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Just had to add this humorous dig....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrZ2xGTqpag

It's a solstice tree and I turn xmas wreathes into south-facing vertical sundials. :lol:

 

[IAmAWitness]

Next time you hear one of these Scrooges, pay close attention to the subtext:

• Everyone who doesn't believe precisely what we believe is unbiblical and pagan! (Exclusivity, dogmatism, spiritual pride.)
• The vast majority of Christians are evil pagans, so you had better stick with us if you want to please God! (Legalism, elitism, manipulation.)
• We have standards that you have to follow if you want to be holy, and if you don't follow them you're an ungodly pagan! (Superiority, shame.)
• Your external actions and displays--whether or not you put up a Christmas tree--are very important. (No mention of the grace of Christ.)

So I'm kind of a scrooge, I don't set up Christmas trees or festive decorations of any sort. But you haven't described me or people I have met who agree with me. Instead you described a typical pompous Jehovah's Witness. Your point is a fail.

 

[teamventure]

Amen.

And as far as I can see, adding Christmas to the worship of God (Christmas service), which came from Pagan traditions, is doing exactly what He said not to do. And no kind of speech can change that fact.

And as I said, the tree was never the issue. Cutting down the pine tree, having it outside, or in your home was never the issue. The issue was taking a completely Pagan celebration, and trying to blend it with Christianity. That's the issue. God has warned us about adding these abominations to His worship. Someone may try to shoo me away, or call me a legalist all they want to. It doesn't change the fact that God said, "No, do not do it."

Amen. i don't know as much about the pagan roots of Christmas as i do of Halloween, but pagan traditions must not be mixed with Christianity. The Lord forbids it. I am with you Raeneske.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Next time you hear one of these Scrooges, pay close attention to the subtext:

So I'm kind of a scrooge, I don't set up Christmas trees or festive decorations of any sort. But you haven't described me or people I have met who agree with me. Instead you described a typical pompous Jehovah's Witness. Your point is a fail.

I hear ya. No you are not a scrooge. If I was single, there'd be no decorations around me, but there's some here because the wife and the rest of the family want a stupid tree. So I always decorate it with pagan symbols lest I remotely associate any of it with Christ (Yahshua). I'll admit I'm not a man in that respect, but then again I'm not one to force my way on anyone. Gifts? Yeah, I'll give them and take them if someone wants to give me something, whether now or any time of year as I see xmas as a secular holiday, a solstice festival, nice to cuddle together and warm up. We do the same at other holidays such as the 4th of July which is also secular. I do not see Christ in the whole thing at all. Decorations look pretty, but that's it. Again, I know that Jesus is not the reason for the season.

Now, the feast days are another thing, and I look forward to observing them and the rich prophetic meaning.

I like to have off at xmas, again, not because that day means anything, but that's when the world lets everyone off, and it's family time. So is Memorial Day 4th of July, and Labor Day the same thing. When I keep the feasts, the rest of the world keeps on working and families are not together, so I want the best of both worlds in that regard, i.e. I'll take off the secular holidays just for the gains they provide. Getting old like I am I want as much family time as possible regardless of when it is.

What I ought to do (if I can afford it or find one) is if I want to really be spiritual, put up an olive tree instead. :lol:

 

[Raeneske]

Amen. i don't know as much about the pagan roots of Christmas as i do of Halloween, but pagan traditions must not be mixed with Christianity. The Lord forbids it. I am with you Raeneske.

Amen, Praise the Lord, and it’s good to see Christians willing to please the Lord, to put away the tree. Keep up your walk, and look at scriptures all in meanings in context

I hear ya. No you are not a scrooge. If I was single, there'd be no decorations around me, but there's some here because the wife and the rest of the family want a stupid tree. So I always decorate it with pagan symbols lest I remotely associate any of it with Christ (Yahshua). I'll admit I'm not a man in that respect, but then again I'm not one to force my way on anyone. Gifts? Yeah, I'll give them and take them if someone wants to give me something, whether now or any time of year as I see xmas as a secular holiday, a solstice festival, nice to cuddle together and warm up. We do the same at other holidays such as the 4th of July which is also secular. I do not see Christ in the whole thing at all. Decorations look pretty, but that's it. Again, I know that Jesus is not the reason for the season.

Now, the feast days are another thing, and I look forward to observing them and the rich prophetic meaning.

I like to have off at xmas, again, not because that day means anything, but that's when the world lets everyone off, and it's family time. So is Memorial Day 4th of July, and Labor Day the same thing. When I keep the feasts, the rest of the world keeps on working and families are not together, so I want the best of both worlds in that regard, i.e. I'll take off the secular holidays just for the gains they provide. Getting old like I am I want as much family time as possible regardless of when it is.

What I ought to do (if I can afford it or find one) is if I want to really be spiritual, put up an olive tree instead. :lol:

If you were single, there would be no decorations around you? I am not judging you, please don’t think that. But even while married, to the best of your ability I would put off the Christmas celebration. Warn the wife and children; tell them, and let them know your decision. You are the man of the household, and so you have perfect right to sit them down, tell them the truth of the matter, and then make the final decision in which you know is obvious according to the Word of God. I am not saying be hateful or anything, no, as a follower of Christ, I believe that all this should be done with immense love, but showing a great distaste for sin. If they then ignore you, and go about celebrating such an offense to God, the offense falls upon them. You have borne your duty.

As for me, I do agree with the statement about gifts. I’m fine with that. But, on December 25th, the Winter Season, around a tree, mistletoe, gold and silver on the trees, etc. etc. etc. – I want no part of such a Pagan festival. My Lord was clear, do not do it. He matters more.

So, I’m not saying it will be easy to say “No” to them. But surely, you’ll be blessed for your stand with the Lord

 

[biggandyy]

Axe, you and I differ on a lot of things, but I gave you a rep point for bringing that article to my attention.

Thanks.

And I would give another rep point to the original author for using the word syncretist and using it properly

 

[Axehead]

Axe, you and I differ on a lot of things, but I gave you a rep point for bringing that article to my attention.

Thanks.

And I would give another rep point to the original author for using the word syncretist and using it properly

Much appreciated, BigAndyy. I look forward to finding other things we agree on.

 

[Mungo]

The Christmas Tree

The Christmas Tree is completely Christian in origin. The origin goes back to the medieval German mystery plays. One of the most popular ‘mysteries’ was the Paradise play, representing the creation of man, the sin of Adam and Eve and their expulsion from Paradise. It usually closed with the consoling promise of the coming Saviour and with a reference to His incarnation. This made the Paradise play a favourite play for Advent, and its closing scenes used to lead directly into the story of Bethlehem. These plays were performed either in the open, or the large squares in front of churches, or inside the house of God. The garden of Eden was indicated by a fir tree hung with apples; it represented both the ‘Tree of Life’ and the ‘Tree of discernment of good and evil’ which stood in the centre of Paradise. After the suppression of the mystery plays in churches the Paradise tree, the only symbolic object of the play, found its way into homes, especially since many plays had interpreted it as a symbol of the coming Saviour. Following this symbolism, in the fifteenth century the custom developed of decorating the Paradise tree, already bearing apples, with small white wafers representing the Holy Eucharist; so, the tree which had borne the fruit of sin for Adam and Eve, now bore the saving fruit of the sacrament, symbolised by the wafers. These wafers were late replaced by little pieces of pastry cut into the shape of stars, angels, hearts, flowers and bells.


(from our church newsletter)

 

[tim_from_pa]

The Christmas Tree

The Christmas Tree is completely Christian in origin. The origin goes back to the medieval German mystery plays. One of the most popular ‘mysteries’ was the Paradise play, representing the creation of man, the sin of Adam and Eve and their expulsion from Paradise. It usually closed with the consoling promise of the coming Saviour and with a reference to His incarnation. This made the Paradise play a favourite play for Advent, and its closing scenes used to lead directly into the story of Bethlehem. These plays were performed either in the open, or the large squares in front of churches, or inside the house of God. The garden of Eden was indicated by a fir tree hung with apples; it represented both the ‘Tree of Life’ and the ‘Tree of discernment of good and evil’ which stood in the centre of Paradise. After the suppression of the mystery plays in churches the Paradise tree, the only symbolic object of the play, found its way into homes, especially since many plays had interpreted it as a symbol of the coming Saviour. Following this symbolism, in the fifteenth century the custom developed of decorating the Paradise tree, already bearing apples, with small white wafers representing the Holy Eucharist; so, the tree which had borne the fruit of sin for Adam and Eve, now bore the saving fruit of the sacrament, symbolised by the wafers. These wafers were late replaced by little pieces of pastry cut into the shape of stars, angels, hearts, flowers and bells.


(from our church newsletter)

Well then the Germans had it wrong. The scriptural tree (if we had to select anything) is the olive tree. Xmas trees smell nice, but the sap is used in making pine oil, a deadly thing to ingest.

On the other hand, olive oil is healthy. It's a healthy monounsaturated fat, just as saturated fats (from meats) are healthy as well. The body converts the latter into the former, and is one of the best sources of energy and nutrition for the human body.

I find that physical diet mimics spiritual truth--- as we eat healthy so we should ingest good spiritual food.

In short, I don't think Yahweh would select a toxic tree over a nutritious one. Just some thoughts and facts here. But I must respectfully disagree about the xmas tree not being pagan.

 

[Mungo]

Well then the Germans had it wrong. The scriptural tree (if we had to select anything) is the olive tree. Xmas trees smell nice, but the sap is used in making pine oil, a deadly thing to ingest.

On the other hand, olive oil is healthy. It's a healthy monounsaturated fat, just as saturated fats (from meats) are healthy as well. The body converts the latter into the former, and is one of the best sources of energy and nutrition for the human body.

I find that physical diet mimics spiritual truth--- as we eat healthy so we should ingest good spiritual food.

In short, I don't think Yahweh would select a toxic tree over a nutritious one. Just some thoughts and facts here. But I must respectfully disagree about the xmas tree not being pagan.

Do you think they had olive trees in Germany in the middle of a German winter?

 

[Raeneske]

The Christmas Tree

The Christmas Tree is completely Christian in origin. The origin goes back to the medieval German mystery plays. One of the most popular ‘mysteries’ was the Paradise play, representing the creation of man, the sin of Adam and Eve and their expulsion from Paradise. It usually closed with the consoling promise of the coming Saviour and with a reference to His incarnation. This made the Paradise play a favourite play for Advent, and its closing scenes used to lead directly into the story of Bethlehem. These plays were performed either in the open, or the large squares in front of churches, or inside the house of God. The garden of Eden was indicated by a fir tree hung with apples; it represented both the ‘Tree of Life’ and the ‘Tree of discernment of good and evil’ which stood in the centre of Paradise. After the suppression of the mystery plays in churches the Paradise tree, the only symbolic object of the play, found its way into homes, especially since many plays had interpreted it as a symbol of the coming Saviour. Following this symbolism, in the fifteenth century the custom developed of decorating the Paradise tree, already bearing apples, with small white wafers representing the Holy Eucharist; so, the tree which had borne the fruit of sin for Adam and Eve, now bore the saving fruit of the sacrament, symbolised by the wafers. These wafers were late replaced by little pieces of pastry cut into the shape of stars, angels, hearts, flowers and bells.


(from our church newsletter)

Sorry, I mean no disrespect here but: That tree is wholly and completely a Pagan idea. Trees itself aren't Pagan, neither is liking or using trees Pagan either. What's Pagan, is the use of a Christmas tree, in the winter Season, and decking it with gold, silver, gifts underneath it, all for December 25th. That's Pagan. The origins of Christmas need to be looked on more so.

Speaking of Christmas, it's strange how Christians say it has to do with the birth of Jesus Christ, seeing as how the term itself has to do with death.

Merry - Joyous
Christ - Jesus
Mass - Destruction of a Victim

Joyous destruction of Christ? No thank you.

 

[Mungo]

Sorry, I mean no disrespect here but: That tree is wholly and completely a Pagan idea. Trees itself aren't Pagan, neither is liking or using trees Pagan either. What's Pagan, is the use of a Christmas tree, in the winter Season, and decking it with gold, silver, gifts underneath it, all for December 25th. That's Pagan. The origins of Christmas need to be looked on more so.

Speaking of Christmas, it's strange how Christians say it has to do with the birth of Jesus Christ, seeing as how the term itself has to do with death.

Merry - Joyous
Christ - Jesus
Mass - Destruction of a Victim

Joyous destruction of Christ? No thank you.

It's not pagan at all. Thinking it is pagan is all in your head.

 

[Raeneske]

It's not pagan at all. Thinking it is pagan is all in your head.

It's a verifiable fact, sir.

Your signature sums up what I was about to say.

 

[Mungo]

Your signature sums up what I was about to say.

Exactly. And all we have are your opinions, to which you are welcome.

 

[jiggyfly]

I am not pro or anti Christmas and don't want to justify or find fault like my opinion even matters but I like the Christmas season because I can see no other time of year when people are more generous and considerate towards others and that makes me happy and give thanks to God. When you witness the kindness of others and it does nothing for you, maybe it's because your wood is all wet.

Be happy with those who are happy, and weep with those who weep. Live in harmony with each other. Don’t be too proud to enjoy the company of ordinary people. And don’t think you know it all!
Romans 12:15-16 (NLT)

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Even though I do not celebrate Christmas for I feel that the Satan Claws.. opps I mean Santa Claus image is idolatry and his image is the exact opposite as Father God the giver of good gifts that never spoil.
I can see a Pine Tree (EVER GREEN) always looks"alive" as it's leaves never FALL as a symbol of Jesus the tree of life being the Word of life for us to LIVE by and lights as he is the Light of the world and silver and gold bulbs as a symbol of royalty for he is King.
But another reason or two that I do not celebrate his fleshly birth is because I do not believe this is the day of his birth, but in Sept.Oct on the Feast of Tabernacles being God with us our Emmanuel.
And he did not ask us to celebrate the birth of his sinful flesh man, but to remember his death and RESURRECTION. He did for us so that we could live life more abundantly bringing us close to the Father and giving us the Word that brings blessing to our lives of misery under the devils captivity. The Spirit is the only way we can overcome the devil for the Spirit is our helper that those in the past did not have. The Spirit teaches us of the Word when we seek truth and the Word is the way the truth and the life, nobody can come to the Father but by accepting THE CHRIST the living Word.
I believe the rapture of the worthy will be on a Feast of Tabernacles as we exchange our earthly tents in the twinkling of an eye for our heavenly tabernacles as the temple of God in Christ and the sons of God birthed in the image(attributes) of the Word who they have made head over them.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
KJV

This is what Jesus said to do in remembrance of him:
Luke 22:19-20
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
KJV
1 Cor 11:24-26
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
KJV