Stand alone

[michaelvpardo]

Gonna start this with a question.Are you willing to stand alone before God,and make an account of what you are teaching?I ask because I can't count the many different views on this forum,and many other's that are different,in other words,we are teaching or suppose to be His Word,and we will be held accountable.

So my next question,are you willing to bet your soul on what you teach?

To answer my own question ,I am!!!!

Yes and no. Yes I'm prepared to stand before God to give an account for what I've shared of my understanding (I'm just acting according to His word, His promises, and His teaching through His own Spirit). No with regard to judment. The bema seat judgment is one of rewards and I'm used to having empty pockets. According to my Lords own words, I've passed out of judgment (to condemnation, not rewards.)
To quote the self professed chief of sinners:
O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God— through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Thinking on my OP,I don't feel I should have said betting my soul,as that IMO,would imply that I know it all(scripture)and that is nowhere near the case

I'll just say please be careful of what you say in this or any other forum as you will be judged by it....

Yup, its better not to say what you don't really understand, but understand judgment:
47“And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50“And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”John 12:47-48
Don't you just love the man in the God and the God in the man! Praise Jesus, Hallelujah and amen!

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Are you willing to stand alone before God,and make an account of what you are teaching? ...

Everyone has words, but few have deeds. So let me START with a two-fold question:

PREMISE #1:
Dan. 2 outlines the sequence of world empires.

The commentators interpret it as FOUR World Empires:

1. Gold, Babylonian
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
3. Bronze, Grecian
4.a. Iron, Roman
4.b. Clay, Revived Roman
​

Dan. 2:45 presents it as:

4. Iron, (Roman)
3. Bronze, Grecian
5. Clay, "Divided"
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
1. Gold, Babylonian
-- Where there are FIVE World Empires.
​

Question #1:

Are there FOUR or FIVE?

​

PREMISE #2:

The commentators present Dan. 2 as "FOUR" and Dan. 7 as a "repeat" of FOUR.

Dan. 2:45 says FIVE, and we know that FIVE ≠ FOUR.
​

Question #2:

Because we know that FIVE ≠ FOUR, -- can we conclude that the Dan. 7 FOUR represent the FIFTH "Divided Kingdom":

Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
Bear, Russia
Leopard (actually a TIGER), China
"dreadful", United Nations

​

So forget about "standing before GOD". -- Is anyone willing to be a FALSE TEACHER?!?
Bobby Jo

​

 

[Timtofly]

Sounds like God has it well covered.

 

[Keraz]

Teaching the Word:

Psalm 78:1-8 My People, mark My Words, I shall tell you a meaningful story, I shall expound the riddle of things past. Things that our forefathers have told us – the wonderful acts of the Lord to His people. The Lord laid upon Jacob a solemn charge to teach his descendants, to repeat through the generations, for them to put their trust in God, to remember His great deeds for them and to keep His commandments. Not to do as their ancestors did – a disobedient and rebellious generation, their hearts not fixed firmly on the Lord.

Jeremiah 24-26 Your ancestors did not listen to the prophets I sent. Zechariah 7:12

Hosea 3:6 Want of knowledge has been the ruin of My people....


Isaiah 28:9-11 Who is there that can be taught? Who makes sense of what he hears? They are like babes, newly weaned. So now, in another tongue, the Lord will address this people.

Isaiah 55:1-3 Come for water and food, [the Law and the Commandments] get My instruction at no cost. Listen to Me and you will fare well, you will enjoy the best of food, hear Me and you will have life.

Isaiah 48:17 Thus says the Lord your redeemer: I will teach you for your own wellbeing and lead you in the way you should go.

Jeremiah 16:21 Therefore I am teaching My people once and for all, of My power and might and they will learn that My Name is the Lord.

Psalm 25:8-9 The Lord is good and upright, therefore He teaches sinners the way they should go. He guides the humble in right conduct, teaching them His Laws.

Psalm 27:11-12 Teach me Your way Lord, do not give me up to the greed of my enemies. Lead me by a level path, so I can escape the troubles that beset me, those liars that threaten harm.

Psalm 32:8 I shall teach you and guide you the way you should go, I will keep you under My eye.

Psalm 86:11 Lord teach me Your way, that I may walk in Your truth.

Isaiah 2:2-3 In days to come the Lord’s House will be raised above the mountains and many people will say: Let us go up to the Lord’s House, that he may teach us His ways, for instruction comes from Zion and the Word from Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 31:34 No longer will My people teach one another, they will all know the Lord.

Matthew 23:10 Do not call yourself ‘Teacher’, for you have one teacher – the Messiah.

James 3:1 My friends, not many of you should become teachers, because you may be certain that we who teach will ourselves face a severer judgement.

2 Peter 2:1-3 In the past there were false prophets and now there are false teachers among you. They will gain many adherents to their destructive theories, bringing the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed for money, they will trade on peoples credulity with sheer fabrications.

Isaiah 51:4-8 Listen to Me, My people, My instruction will shine forth from Me and My judgement will dawn upon you. In an instant the sky will be dispersed like smoke, the earth will become tattered and torn and many people will die, but you who keep My Laws – do not fear your enemies, do not let their reviling dismay you. For My saving power is unbroken and My Deliverance will be everlasting. Ref: REB, Some verses abridged


Only after the Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath; will we receive full instruction.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
Only after the Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath; will we receive full instruction.

You imply that we don't have ANY INSTRUCTIONS? And exactly what are "FULL INSTRUCTIONS"? Do they include interpretations for all the prophecies up to HIS Return? Did we MISS Israel becoming a nation? Or MISS the Tribulation? Or MISS global thermonuclear war?

I think you ascribe your lack of knowledge to others,
Bobby Jo

 

[michaelvpardo]

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Corinthians 13:2
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you ; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27
11When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 1 Corinthians 13:11-12
Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. Romans 2:1
Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. Romans 14:4

I think it would be great if believers believed the word and if those who claim obedience would obey it. Doesn't seem like we've gotten there yet. I'm pretty sure that criticism isn't a gift of the Spirit and if you don't know Him why pretend that you do? Do you know why people get tired of pointless argument and abandon Christian web sites? Pretty sure it has something to do with pride and the struggle for preeminence. If you teach or share your understanding, you should always be asking yourself why?

 

[Keraz]

You imply that we don't have ANY INSTRUCTIONS? And exactly what are "FULL INSTRUCTIONS"? Do they include interpretations for all the prophecies up to HIS Return? Did we MISS Israel becoming a nation? Or MISS the Tribulation? Or MISS global thermonuclear war?

I think you ascribe your lack of knowledge to others,
Bobby Jo

Like all of my poste, I simply quoted what the Prophets said:
Isaiah 51:4 Listen to Me, my people; My instruction will shine forth from Me...….AFTER the Lords Day of fiery wrath.

Your comments BJ, are of no use or value whatsoever.
It would be a nice change to see some useful dialogue and genuine insights from you.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

The Old Testament prophecy's are past. It is for our understanding of God but many pastors take it to apply today. The best example for that is tithing is still taught as though we should still be doing it.

The destruction of the temple completely ended the age of law. We are under the age of Grace and this age shall never end.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

The resurrection of the old testament of saints is past.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
The last day of law is past.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Christians never die.

 

[Taken]

What I find fascinating is that even if some people can't bring themselves to say they are not perfect in their "positivizes", why is it that they cannot say "I see it this way" or "This is what I believe." Almost everything that comes out of some mouths here is a declaration that what they have said is the absolute and only possibility.

I believe:
* People speaking for "themselves" are speaking what "they" believe IS True.
* The "religousity" of "Christianity" has a Great "Divide";
Between Catholicism and all others ... (Christian Churches and Messaniac Jews.)
And "within" those Divisions, Individuals themselves have their "own" agreements and disagreements of "their" own Beliefs.
* People have Complete "opposites" in what "they" understand "basic" discussion words "mean": (such as: Sin, Trespass, Christian, Applicabile, Salvation, Worship, etc.)
* People have Complete "opposites", of "SOURCES", that give rise to the "WHY", They believe what "they" believe. (From the Scripture alone, to the "multiple" Commentators, Philosophers, Parents, Friends, Traditions, Clerics, the Popes, etc.)
* As many Minds exist within men...so also will be, Many "individual" ... "Efforts" of what and how "invested" an "individual" is "invested" in "Hearing", "STUDYING", or Simply being "Told" what to Believe, (with or without Scriptural Verification/testing).
* Every Mind...can have an opinion, have their "own" Mindful "understanding"...

However the FACT IS:
Scripture was given mankind;
** For Gods "Basic" Knowledge,
***to be a; "Memorial"/ Remembrance OF (Examples of Gods Goodness, man's wickedness, fallen spirits evilness)
***to be a; Guide
(to Gods WAY, ORDER, and Expectation of Gods Faithfulness Results BECAUSE of "HIS" mercy.)
and
***to be a; Benefit for all of Mankind
"who" ELECT/choose to Follow HIS WAY...
and
Knowledge of Expectation for all "who" ELECT/choose to Reject God/ "His WAY."

In summary:
As many Minds there are, there Will Be as Many "opinions", from "LOGICAL guesswork," and Mindful concluded "understandings"

However there is ONLY "ONE" valid "Understanding" of Gods Word/ Knowledge...and THAT, "IS", Gods Understanding...
And
"ONLY God Himself "IS" the "ONLY VALID SOURCE" of His Understanding.

Inanutshell:
UNTIL men Stop relying on "multiple Sources"; "for Understanding Gods Knowledge revealed"...and SEEK, and TRUST. and RELY on Gods Understanding of Gods Knowledge given mankind...
Disagreements will prevail.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
Bear, Russia
Leopard (actually a TIGER), China
"dreadful", United Nations

This is your own fanciful interpretation, and Daniel would say that someone has gone into flights of fancy (or worse).

 

[Enoch111]

The resurrection of the old testament of saints is past.

Another imaginary interpretation. The Old Testament saints are still in Heaven, awaiting the Resurrection/Rapture.

 

[DNB]

Thinking on my OP,I don't feel I should have said betting my soul,as that IMO,would imply that I know it all(scripture)and that is nowhere near the case

I'll just say please be careful of what you say in this or any other forum as you will be judged by it....

Yes, I was going to point that out. By making that initial remark, you negated the main part of your message.
Good correction!

 

[DNB]

But almost all views DO have Scriptural-backing that opponents using the exact same verse often swear supports THEIR view... not the other person's.

ie: Hate your mother and father...….. I have come to divide, your enemy will be right in your own family.... the camel and the eye of the needle...… get behind me Satan...…. {but} upon this rock I will build my church...… what you loose or bind on earth will be loosed or bound in Heaven...… and a hundred other verses that many people read totally the opposite of what another might read.

So, just because you accurately use the exact words printed in the Bible, often means very little.

Precisely!

 

[DNB]

Another imaginary interpretation. The Old Testament saints are still in Heaven, awaiting the Resurrection/Rapture.

You're both wrong! No one has entered heaven except for Christ, all the rest are asleep waiting for judgement.

 

[DNB]

I'd rather stand with people who screwed-up their interpretations worse than I did .. But really, what we have is a vast array of varying opinions about what means what. I suspect that God would just be thrilled that there are people digging into his Word and trying to understand it. Most people I know never crack open a bible, or even have one. Nothing wrong with not figuring something out correctly, as long as your not deliberately trying to mislead others. If we are judged by our own level of intellect, I suspect we're all in trouble.. Ultimately, Christ is our predominate teacher, we are just disciples (learners).

I agree. I do believe that there are mortal and venial misinterpretations (excuse the Catholic allusions), but the intent and approach for the venial ones, maybe even the mortal ones, will determine whether or not one will receive God's approbation.

In other words, I've often said in defense of my position that, God's knows why I believe, what I believe.

 

[DNB]

I am, yes.

Precarious, ...and incriminating, seriously!

 

[DNB]

Gonna start this with a question.Are you willing to stand alone before God,and make an account of what you are teaching?I ask because I can't count the many different views on this forum,and many other's that are different,in other words,we are teaching or suppose to be His Word,and we will be held accountable.

So my next question,are you willing to bet your soul on what you teach?

To answer my own question ,I am!!!!

One should be able to articulate their views well, to the point that they don't feel ashamed or confused, and that ultimately, it reveals the wisdom and glory of God. Otherwise, we cannot be too dogmatic about our positions, and must caveat our statements with an 'in my opinion'.

Plus, we must be wary of citing anything outside of Scripture in order to validate our points. For these councils or theologians that one puts so much credence into, will not be willing or capable to defend you on Judgement Day, especially in the way that you are appealing to, or defending them now.

 

[Timtofly]

You're both wrong! No one has entered heaven except for Christ, all the rest are asleep waiting for judgement.

Revelation 6:9-10

9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been put to death for proclaiming the Word of God, that is, for bearing witness.
10 They cried out in a loud voice, “Sovereign Ruler, HaKadosh, the True One, how long will it be before you judge the people living on earth and avenge our blood?”

Those OT saints and prophets put to death were resurrected immediately after the Atonement was completed on the cross. They were then allowed in heaven under the alter where they are waiting until the 5th and 6th seal. Seal 1 and 2 have been opened. Only 3 and 4 to go. All who have died in Christ over the last 1990 years are there under the alter. Like Paul said, the dead in Christ will get their robes first. Then those alive, will meet them in the air, and receive their robes on the way up. Robes indicate the new glorified body. The end of chapter 6 is the end of the church age, as no more body of Christ will remain on the earth.

The alter is in heaven, so in heaven is where the saints are.

 

[DNB]

Revelation 6:9-10

9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been put to death for proclaiming the Word of God, that is, for bearing witness.
10 They cried out in a loud voice, “Sovereign Ruler, HaKadosh, the True One, how long will it be before you judge the people living on earth and avenge our blood?”

Those OT saints and prophets put to death were resurrected immediately after the Atonement was completed on the cross. They were then allowed in heaven under the alter where they are waiting until the 5th and 6th seal. Seal 1 and 2 have been opened. Only 3 and 4 to go. All who have died in Christ over the last 1990 years are there under the alter. Like Paul said, the dead in Christ will get their robes first. Then those alive, will meet them in the air, and receive their robes on the way up. Robes indicate the new glorified body. The end of chapter 6 is the end of the church age, as no more body of Christ will remain on the earth.

The alter is in heaven, so in heaven is where the saints are.

The alter is figurative, no one is under the altar. The altar signifies that they were a sacrifice for Christ. It's imagery. Just like when Abel's blood cried out to God. It's figurative.