Standing… Survey… YES or NO………………?ONCE SAV-ED…SAV-ED FOREVER [OSAS)?

[LoveYeshua]

then it is not of grace. it is of works.

no, please read James about faith and works and get back to me. we will discuss.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

no, please read James about faith and works and get back to me. we will discuss.

James?

what about paul and Jesus?
Did James contradict them

read these passages and get back with me when you can show me works required by these two

John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

 

[Dave Mac]

its conditional as long as we abide in Christ YES

 

[Deleted member 26788]

any time i find someone that says they are saved i have to wonder if they know what they are to be save from . some think they are saved from sin and yet they go on sinning as if the sin doesn't count .
the one thing to be saved from is death , only by resurrection can any then be saved from death .

 

[LoveYeshua]

James?

what about paul and Jesus?
Did James contradict them

read these passages and get back with me when you can show me works required by these two

John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

James is simple;

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

some versions as BSB use deeds instead of works.

Please read James 2 for full context.

James explains also to be doers of the words and not listeners only.

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

it is not just about believing, Jesus and James are clear on this.

Jesus is simple also as he said, "if you love me keep my commandments" he also explains deeds and how important they are. When Jesus said, “I was hungry and you gave Me food… inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me” (Matthew 25:35, 40), He showed that our deeds matter. These are not just random acts of kindness—they are the natural fruit of a heart changed by God, a life walking in obedience to His commandments. Helping the poor, welcoming strangers, and visiting the sick are deeds of love, and love is the foundation of God’s law. Those who truly follow Him will live this love in action. Their works do not earn salvation, but they prove their faith is real. In the judgment, Jesus does not ask what we believed only, but what we did. Our deeds reveal whether we have obeyed His call to love.

Paul also said to keep the commandments in a few verses somewhere.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

sure i can give 25 scriptures saying God cares ,,,,,,,for all his own . but put your self on the outside of that group he does not know you nor hear your Prayers .he is finite and can afford to be

 

[Scott Downey]

God the Father granted you your belief in His Son and granted you to come to Christ, actually giving you to Christ as one of His children, from Himself to His Son.

Jesus said, they were YOUR's, you gave them to ME. John 17.

All of that is scripturally provable.

See if you can find it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

its conditional as long as we abide in Christ YES

So it’s you saving yourself ? And not God keeping you like he promised

Or did I misunderstand d you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

James is simple;

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

some versions as BSB use deeds instead of works.

Please read James 2 for full context.

James explains also to be doers of the words and not listeners only.

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

it is not just about believing, Jesus and James are clear on this.

Jesus is simple also as he said, "if you love me keep my commandments" he also explains deeds and how important they are. When Jesus said, “I was hungry and you gave Me food… inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me” (Matthew 25:35, 40), He showed that our deeds matter. These are not just random acts of kindness—they are the natural fruit of a heart changed by God, a life walking in obedience to His commandments. Helping the poor, welcoming strangers, and visiting the sick are deeds of love, and love is the foundation of God’s law. Those who truly follow Him will live this love in action. Their works do not earn salvation, but they prove their faith is real. In the judgment, Jesus does not ask what we believed only, but what we did. Our deeds reveal whether we have obeyed His call to love.

Paul also said to keep the commandments in a few verses somewhere.

Ok

You failed to show me one work

You have James contradicting Jesus and paul

You must resolve that contradiction

I have. By taking James in context. Those people had no faith in and he called them out. He did not contradict Paul

 

[MatthewG]

Without Judgement and Critics, there is nothing to really provide discussion.

This is why this so called doctrine is debated, but also many others. That is why dissension happens, and that is just of the flesh.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Without Judgement and Critics, there is nothing to really provide discussion.

This is why this so called doctrine is debated, but also many others. That is why dissension happens, and that is just of the flesh.

The issue is this is the most important issue in our faith

Dies God save completely or does he not?

 

[MatthewG]

The issue is this is the most important issue in our faith

Dies God save completely or does he not?

Hello EG,

I personally have you ignore but figured I would respond. To be saved to the Kingdom of God, requires faith. Jesus has taken care of peoples sins already. Sin was reflectively the Law of Moses which revealed sin to people. While I can admit I don't do what the Law of Moses says, Idk how exactly I sin, but I know that I fall short, and it was Yeshua whom bore my sins, and the whole worlds sins.


Can you say that you are a person whom is saved to the Kingdom of God? It doesn't come from acting a certain way, or anything like, it comes from a heart that is willingly to continue to be faithful, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Many people believe that loving their neighbor is sharing with them the truth, but one rejoices when truth wins out. And everyone has their own personal decisions.

Faithful or not. If you are faithful! Great. Go on and continue to love your neighbor as yourself.

That is it.

 

[Rockerduck]

James is no different than another Christian. He was saved by Jesus Christ. James is not an Apostle. His claim to fame is being the oldest son of Joseph and Mary. He is to be admired like a pastor over his church. His works doctrine directly contradicts the Apostle Paul in Roman 11:6, and Ephesians 2:8. You are saved by Faith (in Christ) plus nothing. Our fruit is from obeying Jesus and storing our treasures in Heaven.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

James is not an Apostle

Actually James is one of Jesus' Apostles.

James and John were preparing to fish with their father by the seashore when Jesus called them to follow him - Matt. 4:21–22, Mk. 1:19–20

His works doctrine directly contradicts the Apostle Paul in Roman 11:6

That's false doctrine. The New Testament writers were led by the Holy Spirit concerning what to write and did not contradict one another.

Those having been deceived by the false teachers in the end time wouldn't understand God's Word being led by devils and all.

 

[soberxp]

Let me ask you a question: Which truly belongs to God—life or death? If life belongs to God, how can He then use death to judge humanity? Wouldn’t that mean Satan and the devil have won?"

 

[Christian Soldier]

My views were given, and supported according to Gods Word.




I didn’t speak to THAT point…
However Scripture Does.

* Records of Evidence precludes A Judgement.
* Gods Evidence…IS Recorded IN HIS BOOKS (records)
* The Accused Shall stand Before the Judge.
* The Books of Evidence are Opened.
* According TO the Evidence Revealed…
* The Judge Pronounces JUDGEMENT upon the Accused.



Actually, Scripture Reveals, God IS ALL Knowing… human men ARE Not All Knowing.

Nothing NEW, is Revealed to God.
What “was, is, shall be”…is continuously Revealed / Manifested to Man!



Yikes… You are projecting A Declarative Judgement AND Sentence IS carried out… “without Evidence Revealed or Considered”…

That is False…



What God Knows is not in debate.
When God Knew is not in debate.
* It is “some” men, who KNOW NOT, what “Evidence” is Against Them… UNTIL…
Gods Books OF Evidence ARE OPENED, Revealed, ARE the Facts, Truths, FOR each INDIVIDUALS “Judgement” the ”Judge Shall Pronounce.”

Regardless OF What, When, Gods Knows…
“Judgement” HAS NOT come to pass, been manifested, Yet Revealed.



You completely Skip over… the JUST importance of Evidence Against “the Accused…
With the Lord God …AND…Without the Lord God”.




What iS YOUR EVIDENCE, that I made that Claim?
Quote me.



What is your Evidence that I made that Claim”?
Quote me.


Again make your Accusation against me, with My quote of Evidence, to prove YOUR Accusation.

Every one of the 47,000 Christian Denominations claim exactly what you claim when you stated that your views are supported by Gods Word. The problem I see with such a statement, is many of those 47,000 Denominations have radically different and opposing views. But they all claim what you claim, while we know that opposing views can't all be Gods Word.

The only crime which condemns people to eternity in hell, is because Jesus never knew them. The so called book, is figurative. God is Spirit, He doesn't need physical books to remind Him who His hosen people are.

I'm somewhat confused by your narrative, regarding judgement. From Gods perspective, everyone is guilty and we all deserve to be cast into an eternal hell. But thank God He has saved a remnant for His own Glory. So as far as the judgement is concerned, only those who the Father gave to Christ, before He created the world shall be saved.

I believe, this is why the majority of professing Christians will hear the words, "depart from Me, for I never knew you". I believe this means "you are not one of those the Father gave Me".

I'd rather not go back to look for the quote you made, which I understood as you claiming that God will make a decision about each person guilt or justification at the judgement. I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say, and I do find your theology and doctrines very strange.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Aha, Reformed Theology.

I have been raised in a back then Calvinistic country. When I came to Christ I went to the Reformed church of my wife. Her father, my dear father in law was an elder and sometimes we had a discussion, and I said, I am saved, and he said no no no, you can't say that, nobody can know that, God decides who is elected. And I said, look here in the Bible, and there, and there, I believe what Jesus says..... But he kept shaking his head. And as a reformed believer he was right, it's what Reformed Theology teaches. And as a reformed believer he lived in fear, not knowing where he would end up after death. And on his death bed his eyes were full of fear, my wife praying with and for him, signing his favorite psalms. An awful sight it was.

So, as a Reformed believer I don't understand why you would even talk about a man-made doctrine like OSAS.

The Reformers all believed OSAS, so I have no idea what your late father in law was on about. It sounds like he may have been suffering from some mental disease, because everyone who holds to Reformed Theology knows OSAS is one of the five points of T.U.L.I.P

I get the sense that you don't even know the first thing about Reformed Theology, it sounds like some enemy has planted this poison in your mind.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Have it your way, it's your choice!

No, no, no nobody has free choice. That "free choice" movement came directly from the pits of hell. I have nomore choice than a prisoner of Satan

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Let me ask you a question: Which truly belongs to God—life or death? If life belongs to God, how can He then use death to judge humanity? Wouldn’t that mean Satan and the devil have won?"

Let me answer with a question.

God is a god of love. But God is also a God of justice.

The Angels who fell are judged. and have no hope

God created man. And gave them the same love. But man rebelled. (1st is it fair he judged angels for sin and not man?

but God also died for mankind. so they may be saved (he was sent not to judge)

But in his face. many of mankind still rejected Gods love

so in the end. who is seen as the one of love. The God who died for the lost. Or the lost who rejected him?

Satan lost the moment Jesus said it is finished

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, no, no nobody has free choice. That "free choice" movement came directly from the pits of hell. I have nomore choice than a prisoner of Satan

are you not Human? Did God not make you in his image?