Standing… Survey… YES or NO………………?ONCE SAV-ED…SAV-ED FOREVER [OSAS)?

[Sabé]

Okay.
The short answer is You are Not saved,

As I was trying to get across, it depends on how you look at it.

If, by 'Are you saved?", you are asking "Have you reached eternal life now?", then my answer is "I am not saved", because I am not in Heaven now, and thus I am unsaved in the sense that I am still living on earth, not that I'm living eternally separated from God in Hell now.

I will only be able to either answer "I am saved now", as in "I am living with God eternally in Heaven", or "I am unsaved now", as in "I am living eternally separated from God in Hell", after mortal death, since Jesus said it is at that point when one will have either reached eternal life in Heaven or Hell, depending on whether they persevered (in obedience to His commandments, overcoming trials/tribulations, and repentance) continually throughout their life to the end (mortal death), or not, of their own free will.

The opportunity for all souls to either achieve eternal life in Heaven or Hell, of their own free will, was only made possible because of God, Who became incarnate, was born into this world thanks to the Blessed Virgin Mary, taught the Light of Truth, and accepted suffering and death at the hands of Darkness. If these events didn't come to pass, Heaven would've remained closed, and man would've remained dead to sin in darkness, with no hope of resurrection to life in Light.

I choose to believe in what God's selfless sacrifice, that eternal act of love, achieved for me and all souls: the opportunity for us to achieve eternal life in Heaven, if we want it, by Grace through faith which is alive when we are obedient to God's commandments, overcome tribulations/trials, and repent, of our own free will, in cooperation with Him, continually to the end of our mortal life on earth.

Do you claim to be Catholic?

I claim to be a Christian (Catholic), but merely claiming to be in and of itself doesn't automatically mean that person is. I try to practice all the Christian (Catholic) commandments and sacraments that God instituted for all souls. Anyone who, at the very least, continually has the will to practice, or successfully practices love towards God and their neighbor, the greatest of His commandments, regardless of the flock they are with, then that person is a Christian (Catholic), even if they don't consider themselves so by name, and they will achieve Heaven. But, at the same time, we cannot forget His expressed desire to see His sheep of all other flocks brought into the one fold on earth too: His Christian (Catholic) Church, and be unified under one Shepherd. If I don't reflect what it means to be a Christian (Catholic), then may God put me in a state of Grace; and if I do, may God so keep me.

 

[Taken]

As I was trying to get across, it depends on how you look at it.

Didn’t require an explanation…

Are you Saved… your answer… No.

Are you a Catholic…your answer…Yes.

 

[Sabé]

Didn’t require an explanation…

True, but it was necessary.

Are you Saved…

As I said, the answer depends on what you mean by "saved".

Are you a Catholic…your answer…Yes.

You actually asked, "Do you claim to be Catholic?" and, in part, I actually answered, "I claim to be a Christian (Catholic), but merely claiming to be in and of itself doesn't automatically mean that person is" and "If I don't reflect what it means to be a Christian (Catholic), then may God put me in a state of Grace; and if I do, may God so keep me."

 

[Taken]

As I said, the answer depends on what you mean by "saved".

Same as Gods Word…

ARE saved…AM Saved…
—-> believe in heart
—> confessed belief to Lord
—> surrendered body to Lord
—-> saved before physical death

HOPE to BE saved…
—-> believe
—-> IF you continue to believe will be saved
-> IF you obey Gods commands to do works
—-> Hope to be saved After physical death

You actually asked, "Do you claim to be Catholic?"

Yes

"I claim to be a Christian (Catholic),

but merely claiming to be in and of itself doesn't automatically mean that person is"

Is there someone other than you, that knows you better than you, knows if you believe and follow Catholic Doctrine, that I could ask?

 

[Taken]

Jesus said he who perseveres to the end [mortal death] will be saved, which isn't before mortal death (Matt. 24:13)

Jesus said many things.
You repeating over, over, over, over, over, and over…the same verse…

does not one iota … mean anything except you have mastered the skill of copy and paste and immaturely, think everyone on this forum should enjoy your immature repetitiveness. yawn.

I never asked you what Jesus believes. What Jesus Said.

When are you going to ACTUALLY claim and stand for what “YOU” believe…?

Are you hoping to be saved After your body Mortally Dies?
Then say So.
Would that mean you ARE saved now? No
It means, you hope to be saved after your body dies.

If that is your choice…why dance around in circles…announcing repetitively what Jesus says…?
Are you afraid to confess your own Truth, stand up for your own belief?

You can always just observe how I treat you and others on this forum. Do you see me try to love my neighbor?

What is your point?
Are you looking for others approval of your behavior? Why?

Are you trying to show God you are doing “good works”…so when your body dies, God will remember your “good works” and save you?

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Okay.
The short answer is You are Not saved.

Which is the exact same identical answer if you follow dispensationalism or OSAS.

If you believe Dispensationalism, you’ve divided Christ and denied the covenant fulfilled in Him (Galatians 3:16, Ephesians 2:14–16).

If you believe OSAS, you’ve trampled the warnings of Jesus Christ and the apostles, making the cross a license to sin (Hebrews 10:26–27, John 15:6, Revelation 3:5).

Both systems end the same way: a false gospel that cannot save. The Word of God says: ‘He who endures to the end shall be saved’ (Matthew 24:13). Not those who pray a Scofield prayer, not those who hide behind OSAS, but those who abide in Christ to the end.

 

[Sabé]

Jesus said many things.

Jesus did say many things. That's correct. But, one of the things that Jesus didn't say is that one can be saved, as in be living eternally in Heaven before mortal death, but rather said that he will live eternally in Heaven if he perseveres to mortal death. (Matt. 24:13)

Are you hoping to be saved After your body Mortally Dies?
Then say So.

I did.

Would that mean you ARE saved now? No
It means, you hope to be saved after your body dies.

Correct. And, that goes for every person still living on the earth.

What is your point?
Are you looking for others approval of your behavior? Why?

Are you trying to show God you are doing “good works”…so when your body dies, God will remember your “good works” and save you?

You are the one who just asked me if you could talk to someone who knows me better than I know myself, and ask them if I live as a Christian (Catholic)! I suggested an easier alternative for you to find that out by just observing how I treat you and others on this forum.

 

[GodsGrace]

Isa 45:
[7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Do you even Read Scritpure?

1 John 1:5
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.


1 John 4.8
8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.


Do YOU even read scripture?

We are getting nasty in our old age Taken.
And IF you read scripture, you'll have to admit that there is a big conflict here.

In one place it says God created evil...
In another place it says God has no darkness in Him.
and
God is love.

And if you knew about DIVINE SIMPLICITY (a theological concept) you'd know that the bible
does not state that GOD HAS LOVE...
it states that GOD IS LOVE.

So how would YOU reconcile this seemingly difficult scriptural conflict??

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus did say many things. That's correct. But, one of the things that Jesus didn't say is that one can be saved, as in be living eternally in Heaven before mortal death, but rather said that he will live eternally in Heaven if he perseveres to mortal death. (Matt. 24:13)



I did.



Correct. And, that goes for every person still living on the earth.



You are the one who just asked me if you could talk to someone who knows me better than I know myself, and ask them if I live as a Christian (Catholic)! I suggested an easier alternative for you to find that out by just observing how I treat you and others on this forum.

Good for you Sabe' !
Some on these Forums have odd ideas.
Some think we cannot forfeit our salvation no matter how much we sin.
Some think it is not necessary to obey God.

 

[GodsGrace]

False.
I added nothing to Matt 24:13.



Had you repeated my statement, you would have finally said something that was not False.

Since you asked questions about what I Said…you remain without understanding.
Not surprised.




Your words, not mine.
Verifying your Ignorance.
Not surprised.



Your words, not mine.



I have Zero problems Because you think you asking questions, you gaslighting, is my problem.
How ignorant.

Why don’t You Stop worrying about me…and Become Saved?

Wow Taken!
What's going on with you bro?
How about calming down and treating everyone nicely,,,
just like a good Christian should do?

That would be nice.

 

[GodsGrace]

I appreciate your supportive words.



I know I'm talking to the choir about what I'm about to say to you, but the first and ancient reason for that is Satan. And, I try to remind myself that it's Satan not Taken, or anyone else, that I'm ultimately challenging. Satan is so subtle and intelligent, twisting Scripture just enough to make it sound good and true on the surface, just as he did to create this OSAS belief, for example, which, when challenged, proves to be false and contradictory, to say the least, with these few simple and concise words: "He who perseveres to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13). But, we're not only up against Satan and his servants (some are so knowingly and unknowingly), but our neighbor's free will as well. For some, what they'd choose to rather believe will always be the stronger argument in their minds, even when up against God and the Truth. It's unfortunate, but it is so for some. But, no one's journey is ended until mortal life has ended and eternal life has begun. So, we must pray for ourselves, and others, that we may not become or remain in a state of pride, among others sins, as well as pray for an increase of faith which, when made more and more alive, draws more and more Grace, Wisdom, and Love to help us persevere to the end. I don't know if I've articulated myself clearly.

You've articulated yourself very clearly.
I believe the problem is that some changes have been proposed after the Reformation that were NEVER in the church before this....
and we've just accepted these teachings.
Of course satan is at the base of this...and how he is glorified by some !

All the IF's and all the warnings in the NT should not be ignored.
Jesus didn't teach for years so that modern man could change what He taught.

If God is just, then He will give free will to man so that man will be responsible for his sins.
If God is Almighty, He will demand obedience from man...just as He did from the first man, Adam.
If God is merciful, He will give us a way of escape. Belief and obedience.

God is all 3 of these.

 

[Taken]

Which is the exact same identical answer if you follow dispensationalism or OSAS.

If you believe Dispensationalism, you’ve divided Christ and denied the covenant fulfilled in Him (Galatians 3:16, Ephesians 2:14–16).

No.
I believe Jesus IS the Truth, and He has Offered men Salvation Before their Mortal Death… and Once a mans Soul has been Saved by the Offering of Jesus, the agreeing to accept by the man, and the Power of Christ… done deal, that mans Received salvation can Never be revoked… Period.

If you believe OSAS, you’ve trampled the warnings of Jesus Christ and the apostles, making the cross a license to sin (Hebrews 10:26–27, John 15:6, Revelation 3:5).

No…
I have Accepted The Lords Offering.
I Trust Christs power IN me Will Keep… people like you, demons, from trying to persuade me, use cunning trickery, false accusations, to convince me The Lord is a Liar and “will not” keep my soul Saved”

Sorry… LOL. You using one OF the worlds “stupidest” accusations Against a Firm converted Saved individual..is so stupid, what to do but laugh!

LOL “a License to SIN”
Having a saved soul comes with a license to sin?…
Why… how is such a license issued, and by who…? lol
And how stupid… when a man without Salvation is Sin, Can Sin all day long
No license required… LOL

The Word of God says: ‘He who endures to the end shall be saved (Matthew 24:13).

to the End of….. WHAT?

Scofield prayer

You seem like an expert…

Can you Identify thar person? His credentials, titles?

Can’t you QUOTE his prayer?

… not those who hide behind OSAS,

Who is hiding? I’m not. I straight out claim The Offering of Jesus exists, my choosing to take His Offering, and The Lamb of God delivering to me His offering, and Christ Keeping my received Offering maintained.

… but those who abide in Christ to the end.

End of WHAT?

 

[Taken]

Why are you asking as if you don't know when you've given the right answer before: to the end of mortal death. (Matt. 24:13)

Why?
Same reason all knowing Lord, asked men questions.

Why did you not answer the question?

 

[Taken]

But you already knew the answer when you asked. And, the right answer that you've given before is "to mortal death".



I have. Multiple times. You know this. So, why are you pretending like you don't?

No pretense…wanted your clear answer to a specific question.

How many times IS a man “Required to … ie. appointed to….. DIE”?

 

[Taken]

What do you mean by "die"? Physical bodily death? Eternal separation from God in Hello? Or what?

How many Times is a bodily death Required / appointed is the question.

You are deflecting, to the “meaning of death”.

 

[Taken]

Thank you for clarifying yourself. Well, our physical body dies once on earth.

Once … agree. (Heb 9:27)

When Is The Appointed Time that a man can Receive Gods Gift of Salvation?

Before or After A Bodily Death?

 

[Taken]

By salvation do you mean living in Heaven?

By Salvation I mean Gods Gift of Saving.

The question was WHEN can a man receive the Gift.

You are deflecting to WHERE.

 

[Taken]

Well, Jesus said those who persevere to the end [to mortal death] will be saved, as in will live in Heaven for eternity after mortal life if we persevered on earth. So, by salvation do you mean living in Heaven?

You were given a simple multiple choice, requiring no explanation…

Is Gods Gift of Salvation Given a man Before or After a man’s Death?

Can you answer Before or After?

 

[Taken]

Well, Jesus said those who persevere to the end [to mortal death] will be saved, as in will live in Heaven for eternity after mortal life if we persevered on earth. So, by salvation do you mean living in Heaven?

If you are not finding the answer in Scripture, ASK, I will show you.

 

[Taken]

Do you have a problem with me having quoted Jesus?

I own a collection of Bibles. I do not require you to pick a verse and repeat that verse over and over as a defection.

I have a means to ask Jesus whatever I desire, 24/7.

I asked YOU, a specific very precise very simple question.

And the answer depends on who you ask,

Not according to Scripture, the Answer is irrelevant of Who is asked.

because Jesus was born after some men had already physically died and thus for them the answer would be "after their death", and for those born into the world after Jesus was born, the answer is before their physical death.

The question asked was…

Is Gods Gift of Salvation Given a man Before or After a man’s Death?

Why are adding “the specific of Physical” to the question?

That was not asked.

“I don’t know”… would be a more honest answer, then an attempt to rewrite my question.. and then answer your own question… as if you had answered my question.

The answer to my simply asked question;

Question:
Is Gods Gift of Salvation Given a man Before or After a man’s Death?

Answer:
After.

Elaborating;
Always After a mans Death.

Elaborating:
According to Scripture:
Fools believe otherwise.

Text Verification:
1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest [/B] is not quickened, except it die:[/B]