Symbolism

[ScottA]

No it does not make for a false God or doctrine.

As the Inspired Apostle said:

2 Timothy 3:16-17​

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King James Version​

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16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Anything that goes beyond what god inspired i the words of Scripture is demonic and must be resisted at all costs.

That is correct, and yet symbols with meaning only rightfully discerned by the same Spirit are God's doing, intentional. Why would anyone (like yourself) take it upon themself to dictate for God and say what is and isn't true based on their own understanding? To do so--that is what is demonic and must be resisted. And here you are presuming to dictate and set limitations by your own understanding of the scriptures.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is correct, and yet symbols with meaning only rightfully discerned by the same Spirit are God's doing, intentional. Why would anyone (like yourself) take it upon themself to dictate for God and say what is and isn't true based on their own understanding? To do so--that is what is demonic and must be resisted. And here you are presuming to dictate and set limitations by your own understanding of the scriptures.

I don't take it upon myself.

I take any "new revelation" and compare it with the NT. If it disagrees with the NT, it is not of God! I do not care how sincere, or religious or pious the person may be. The NT is our final authority! If a vision is different or says different than what God inspirreed for all mankind- it is not of God! It is that simple.

And here you are presuming to dictate and set limitations by your own understanding of the scriptures.

And youare claiming new and different revelations and to have been caught up to the third heaven and be inspired as the other NT writers.

Do you have perfect knowledge of the Scriptures? do you have complete and full knowledge of all the will of god? Say yes and you make yourself a liar!

I will walk in the light I have. when someone can bring a better argument from teh Word of God other than what I hold, I am willing and most able to change!

 

[ScottA]

I don't take it upon myself.

I take any "new revelation" and compare it with the NT. If it disagrees with the NT, it is not of God! I do not care how sincere, or religious or pious the person may be. The NT is our final authority! If a vision is different or says different than what God inspirreed for all mankind- it is not of God! It is that simple.

But you are indeed taking things upon yourself, if you are interpreting or basing things on your own understanding.

Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with what you said. Which was and is the reason for this thread: If your beliefs are based on your own understanding, it is likely wrong.

 

[ScottA]

And youare claiming new and different revelations and to have been caught up to the third heaven and be inspired as the other NT writers.

Do you have perfect knowledge of the Scriptures? do you have complete and full knowledge of all the will of god? Say yes and you make yourself a liar!

I will walk in the light I have. when someone can bring a better argument from teh Word of God other than what I hold, I am willing and most able to change!

Your idea of how this all works, is not biblical. All knowledge is not given to those sent, but is rather given like the spiritual gifts: to "some" one thing, and to another something else. You should know this.

As for what I have and do claim, I claim only that part that is given to me--which is considerable, as mine is the finish, and touches on many things. None of which is mine, but His who sent me, and only mine to make known.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

But you are indeed taking things upon yourself, if you are interpreting or basing things on your own understanding.

Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with what you said. Which was and is the reason for this thread: If your beliefs are based on your own understanding, it is likely wrong.

Well I will allow the Lord to judge me and not you!

And how many of your beliefs are based on your own understanding?

I trust the Lord guides my understanding of His Word. He created grammar as the tool to communicate, so I trust He uses it in the manner He taught us how to use it.

Your idea of how this all works, is not biblical. All knowledge is not given to those sent, but is rather given like the spiritual gifts: to "some" one thing, and to another something else. You should know this.

As for what I have and do claim, I claim only that part that is given to me--which is considerable, as mine is the finish, and touches on many things. None of which is mine, but His who sent me, and only mine to make known.

I do know this. and it is straight from gods word- not some hidden "revelation". I claim the bible as given to me. After 51 years of walking with Jesus, I think I have learned a good understanding.

And anything you "know" if it contradicts Scripture is demonic and you have been craftily deceived into thinking it comes from god. OUr enemy masquerades as an angel of light and can deceive even those who think they are in high standing as you think of yourself.

 

[ScottA]

Well I will allow the Lord to judge me and not you!

And how many of your beliefs are based on your own understanding?

I trust the Lord guides my understanding of His Word. He created grammar as the tool to communicate, so I trust He uses it in the manner He taught us how to use it.

I do know this. and it is straight from gods word- not some hidden "revelation". I claim the bible as given to me. After 51 years of walking with Jesus, I think I have learned a good understanding.

And anything you "know" if it contradicts Scripture is demonic and you have been craftily deceived into thinking it comes from god. OUr enemy masquerades as an angel of light and can deceive even those who think they are in high standing as you think of yourself.

You assume the best for yourself and the worst for me, not because you understand nor have any actual reason to, but because you do not know or acknowledge the biblical finish appointed by God, but imagine all is according to your own understanding. And what guiding has He promised those who do that--what do the scriptures say?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You assume the best for yourself and the worst for me, not because you understand nor have any actual reason to, but because you do not know or acknowledge the biblical finish appointed by God, but imagine all is according to your own understanding. And what guiding has He promised those who do that--what do the scriptures say?

I hope you do not have a career in mind reading. You are so very terrible at it. I know the biblical finish god has appointed. No I do not go according to my own understanding as you do.

Once again any "revelation" you p[ropose that contradicts the plain inspired Word of God is demonic.

 

[ScottA]

Once again any "revelation" you p[ropose that contradicts the plain inspired Word of God is demonic.

I would agree--but your version of "the plain inspired Word of God" is simply according to your own understanding.

But you do not stop there, you also accuse me of contradicting the inspired Word of God--calling what God has biblically appointed to me, "demonic"--again, based on your own understanding. In a civil setting--I could sue you! Perhaps you would understand that.

If you actually had a legitimate biblical reason to make such and accusation--you should state your case. So what is it that "contradicts the plain inspired Word of God?"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I would agree--but your version of "the plain inspired Word of God" is simply according to your own understanding.

But you do not stop there, you also accuse me of contradicting the inspired Word of God--calling what God has biblically appointed to me, "demonic"--again, based on your own understanding. In a civil setting--I could sue you! Perhaps you would understand that.

If you actually had a legitimate biblical reason to make such and accusation--you should state your case. So what is it that "contradicts the plain inspired Word of God?"

No I di dnot accuse you of contradicting. I said IF..let me repeat IF your "revelations" contradict Scripture, those revelations are demonic. I thought you read better than that.

Also I understand Scripture as best as I can through prayer, study, research etc. That is how I understand.

You also understand Scripture according to your own understanding.

As I do not know anything that "God has appointed you", I cannot tell if it is from god or a slick lie from an angel of light. You aren't the first sincere believer to be deceived, and you won't be the last. So if you care to enlighten me on this partiular thread what God has appointed you, I can know of these things.

 

[ScottA]

No I di dnot accuse you of contradicting. I said IF..let me repeat IF your "revelations" contradict Scripture, those revelations are demonic. I thought you read better than that.

Also I understand Scripture as best as I can through prayer, study, research etc. That is how I understand.

You also understand Scripture according to your own understanding.

As I do not know anything that "God has appointed you", I cannot tell if it is from god or a slick lie from an angel of light. You aren't the first sincere believer to be deceived, and you won't be the last. So if you care to enlighten me on this partiular thread what God has appointed you, I can know of these things.

You jumped in to impose your own limit on "higher spiritual meaning", and have been defending that position ever since. And it's not the first time you have taken such a position. And you make it personal.

Meanwhile, I have stated my own position--which is not to have a position, but to declare the position of Him who sent me. I think it's good of you to question. But you don't stop there, you make claims that what I have said is not true, or of my own understanding. But your no "higher spiritual meaning" rule--I would say self-imposed rule, but you seem to want to impose it on everyone--comes out every time...and I have explained many times. But you never have any actual argument, except to limit spiritual understanding to what you understand of scripture yourself. That's no argument--that is a position of continually attempting to stifle the Spirit.

Even so, I have left the door open for you to show how something I have said does not hold up to scripture. But you have come up with nothing. Now we're on the topic of symbolism in the scriptures...and here you are trying to govern with your limits, again. But you have only shown yourself to be pro-scripture, but acting against the Spirit who inspired it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You jumped in to impose your own limit on "higher spiritual meaning", and have been defending that position ever since. And it's not the first time you have taken such a position. And you make it personal.

Meanwhile, I have stated my own position--which is not to have a position, but to declare the position of Him who sent me. I think it's good of you to question. But you don't stop there, you make claims that what I have said is not true, or of my own understanding. But your no "higher spiritual meaning" rule--I would say self-imposed rule, but you seem to want to impose it on everyone--comes out every time...and I have explained many times. But you never have any actual argument, except to limit spiritual understanding to what you understand of scripture yourself. That's no argument--that is a position of continually attempting to stifle the Spirit.

Even so, I have left the door open for you to show how something I have said does not hold up to scripture. But you have come up with nothing. Now we're on the topic of symbolism in the scriptures...and here you are trying to govern with your limits, again. But you have only shown yourself to be pro-scripture, but acting against the Spirit who inspired it.

Yes I impose limits because God imposes limits. God does not contradict Himself!

Yes go ahead a blame your positions on God. I do not even know what you believe for you have not posted a specific position on this thread, other than you believe that the Inspired Words god gave to teh writers of Scripture have "higher spiritual meanings" what ever that means to you.

Well you have presented no better argument other than god told you so. this is what Joseph smith, charles Russell, Father fivine, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sun Yung Moon, Mary Eddy and other cult leaders have claimed to justify changing Scripture.

You can write in your mystic style, but once again anything you finally say that statesd a position (belief), if it contradicts Scripture is demonic. I am waiting for you to espouse one position you have gotten from these "higher spiritual meanings".

And the Holy spirit would never contradict Scripture, but illuminates it to our regenerated spirit so we can live by it.

Paul said:

2 Timothy 3:16-17

King James Version

​

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

He did not say : "All higher spiritual meanings" are given......

Peter warned this:

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Unsaved and even saved folks have a hard time to understand what is written, and now you want to have people flock to you like a new Jim Jones, because you have claimed to been given "higher spiritual meanings".

Where is the proof. State a position you say is "higher" and defend it .

 

[ScottA]

Yes I impose limits because God imposes limits. God does not contradict Himself!

Yes go ahead a blame your positions on God. I do not even know what you believe for you have not posted a specific position on this thread, other than you believe that the Inspired Words god gave to teh writers of Scripture have "higher spiritual meanings" what ever that means to you.

Well you have presented no better argument other than god told you so. this is what Joseph smith, charles Russell, Father fivine, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sun Yung Moon, Mary Eddy and other cult leaders have claimed to justify changing Scripture.

You can write in your mystic style, but once again anything you finally say that statesd a position (belief), if it contradicts Scripture is demonic. I am waiting for you to espouse one position you have gotten from these "higher spiritual meanings".

And the Holy spirit would never contradict Scripture, but illuminates it to our regenerated spirit so we can live by it.

Paul said:

2 Timothy 3:16-17​

​

King James Version​

​

​

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

He did not say : "All higher spiritual meanings" are given......

Peter warned this:

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Unsaved and even saved folks have a hard time to understand what is written, and now you want to have people flock to you like a new Jim Jones, because you have claimed to been given "higher spiritual meanings".

Where is the proof. State a position you say is "higher" and defend it .

This may take a while--because you are circling back and projecting.

God imposing limits, doesn't mean it's okay for you to do the same-- Like I said before, you are taking things upon yourself--as if you were God. Which is you blaming "your positions on God"--and projecting your own habits on me. Again, making things personal, and accusational.

And you "do not even know what I believe" but you reply with rebuttal...when I did not say "what I believe"--you only assumed it to be what I "believe." And "higher spiritual meaning" was me correcting you. Saying also that,"symbols with meaning only rightfully discerned by the same Spirit are God's doing, intentional" which you apparently want to limit.

Furthermore, I did not say, "God told me so." Again, you assume and accuse what is not even the case--not what I have said. To the contrary, I have been very open about, often explaining, that I was indeed caught up to the third heaven--a biblical qualification limited to one man--, that the information is not mine but His who sent me, and it is not I who has spoken, but Him. None of which is my "mystical style" as you accuse me--but all biblical, all signs of divine purpose that you as one who studies the Word of God should have recognized, and welcomed, but reject. And that is all on you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This may take a while--because you are circling back and projecting.

God imposing limits, doesn't mean it's okay for you to do the same-- Like I said before, you are taking things upon yourself--as if you were God. Which is you blaming "your positions on God"--and projecting your own habits on me. Again, making things personal, and accusational.

And you "do not even know what I believe" but you reply with rebuttal...when I did not say "what I believe"--you only assumed it to be what I "believe." And "higher spiritual meaning" was me correcting you. Saying also that,"symbols with meaning only rightfully discerned by the same Spirit are God's doing, intentional" which you apparently want to limit.

Furthermore, I did not say, "God told me so." Again, you assume and accuse what is not even the case--not what I have said. To the contrary, I have been very open about, often explaining, that I was indeed caught up to the third heaven--a biblical qualification limited to one man--, that the information is not mine but His who sent me, and it is not I who has spoken, but Him. None of which is my "mystical style" as you accuse me--but all biblical, all signs of divine purpose that you as one who studies the Word of God should have recognized, and welcomed, but reject. And that is all on you.

Are you saying that you think you are the person that Paul is referring to in this passage...

2 Corinthians 12:1 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

If you're saying that you were caught in the third heaven and that only one man ever had this happen to him, then you are saying that you are the person Paul was talking about here. So, you are claiming that you were alive almost 2,000 years ago and were caught up to the third heaven at that time?

 

[ScottA]

Are you saying that you think you are the person that Paul is referring to in this passage...

2 Corinthians 12:1 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

If you're saying that you were caught in the third heaven and that only one man ever had this happen to him, then you are saying that you are the person Paul was talking about here. So, you are claiming that you were alive almost 2,000 years ago and were caught up to the third heaven at that time?

What sort of logic is this that you are using?

Was the Lamb alive "before the foundation of the world", was He alive 4,000 years before He was born?

Time for: "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." Romans 12:2​

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This may take a while--because you are circling back and projecting.

God imposing limits, doesn't mean it's okay for you to do the same-- Like I said before, you are taking things upon yourself--as if you were God. Which is you blaming "your positions on God"--and projecting your own habits on me. Again, making things personal, and accusational.

And you "do not even know what I believe" but you reply with rebuttal...when I did not say "what I believe"--you only assumed it to be what I "believe." And "higher spiritual meaning" was me correcting you. Saying also that,"symbols with meaning only rightfully discerned by the same Spirit are God's doing, intentional" which you apparently want to limit.

Furthermore, I did not say, "God told me so." Again, you assume and accuse what is not even the case--not what I have said. To the contrary, I have been very open about, often explaining, that I was indeed caught up to the third heaven--a biblical qualification limited to one man--, that the information is not mine but His who sent me, and it is not I who has spoken, but Him. None of which is my "mystical style" as you accuse me--but all biblical, all signs of divine purpose that you as one who studies the Word of God should have recognized, and welcomed, but reject. And that is all on you.

Now you are just making word salad.

If Scripture imposes limits, we must impose limits according to Scripture.

You take things upon your self as well. the difference is you believe you are acting under a higher power. Well I do as well.

I have accussed yo0u of nothing on this thread, so that now falls under bearing false witness.

Show me what position of yours I rebutted. You have purposely it seems to avoid making a definitive position here.

Biblical symbols are all defined by Scripture. All the "higher spiritual meaning" definitions of symbols belong to cult leaders and cult leaders wannabes.

You have said you received from god. So "God told me so is a very apt wording of your claims.

So once again you claim to be caught up to teh third heaven just like Paul. Where is the fruit of your life?????? We can look at Scriptures and see the fruits of Pauls life. God doesn't give great revelations without great expectations and responsibilities. You have yet to even define one position you have received by higher meaning!

Well tell us what Divine Purpose you claim to have been given.

Once again, any "higher spiritual meaning" that contradicts the plain, clear, simple inspired Word of God handed down from the original writers fo0r the church is demonic.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What sort of logic is this that you are using?

The good kind. So, are you afraid to answer my question? I guess you do claim to be the person Paul is referring to in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 then. But, you are not. Paul was talking about himself and that's why he talked about not wanting to boast. He didn't explicitly say that it was him because of his desire to not come across as boasting.

Was the Lamb alive "before the foundation of the world", was He alive 4,000 years before He was born?

Not physically, but, as God, He was. Are you seriously comparing yourself to Jesus? You really need to humble yourself.

Time for: "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." Romans 12:2

Your mind definitely needs some serious renewing.

 

[ScottA]

Now you are just making word salad.

You have made so many errors I will have to take them one at a time. I'm not going to run them all together as you have just done--because what I have posted as scripture, given by God, "here a little, there a little", is "salad" to you instead of words by the same Spirit "precept upon precept", that you are not putting together. So...one at a time it is.

Not word salad, but continuity of words given by the same Spirit that all were intended to come together in "all truth." Which you should have expected to occur during these times.

 

[ScottA]

If Scripture imposes limits, we must impose limits according to Scripture.

Scripture imposes limits to be followed ("You follow Me" John 21:22). The only exception comes by being sent, or by specific spiritual gifts. There is no general rule to be imposed on one another.

 

[ScottA]

You take things upon your self as well. the difference is you believe you are acting under a higher power. Well I do as well.

That is a lie. I do not take things upon myself. You only assume that I do, even though I have told you different.

And I do not "believe" I am acting under a higher power--that too is a lie. I "know" as before the face of God.

You do as well? I made a thread about that very thing--about how you come by the things you claim to be God's truth. But you have already stated your practice and your position--doesn't sound the same at all--authoritative yes...but limited to the limits you have stated "by the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

 

[ScottA]

Show me what position of yours I rebutted. You have purposely it seems to avoid making a definitive position here.

Another lie. I am not going to go back and quote you (I already have quoted you). But your every post is full of "you" this, "you" that.