Temples

[Retrobyter]

Shalom to those who use the "supernal" words:

I'm going to press it further:

I ADJURE you by the living God, YHWH, El Elyon, to give your answer.

 

[daq]

Shalom to those who use the "supernal" words:

I'm going to press it further:

I ADJURE you by the living God, YHWH, El Elyon, to give your answer.

Many days ST, as if a thousand years, and then the foolish child takes his own keys to the kingdom and opens the gate. :lol:

The Kingdom of God is so close that little baby Retro has no clue.

Isaiah 11:8-10 KJV
8. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
10. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Yet one of these days little baby Retro is going to go too far, (if he has not done so already) and I know from experience that he will take the keys to his own dominion and open up his pit, wherein is locked up a destroyer from his old man days, and the sky and the air about him will be darkened with the smoke like the smoke of the great furnace of Egypt; and from the smoke will come the legions of the locusts of his doctrines.

Then shall we see who will become a son of the Kingdom! :lol:
And all the holy ones will know whether or not he overcame in his appointed time.

 

[ajdiamond]

Shalom to those who use the "supernal" words:

I'm going to press it further:

I ADJURE you by the living God, YHWH, El Elyon, to give your answer.

I hold my peace.

Nevertheless, I say unto you, one day you might see Christ sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of your consciousness.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, ajdiamond and daq.

As I said, no answer is an answer.

 

[ajdiamond]

I ADJURE you by the living God, YHWH, El Elyon, to give your answer.

Retrobyter:

To attempt to impose your will over another with invocation is an act of _________________.

A. Magick
B. Witchcraft
C. Sorcery
D. Ice Cream

Also, it's enlightening to note Matt 26:63--And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

The conditioned egoic consciousness that inspired the high priest to adjure Jesus is similar to the conditioned egoic mentation that popped into your head and has you thinking it's a good idea to adjure. Selah. It's all about leaving that Pharisee consciousness and coming up to One higher, within.

 

[daq]

Shalom, ajdiamond and daq.

As I said, no answer is an answer.

You did not address me by name in your previous two posts before now.
In addition you gave your word, (without me asking) that you had put me on ignore twice now.
In addition you do not answer when I speak to you showing unfair judgment scales using the "ignore" button as a weapon.
In addition you employ the words of the High Priest in Matthew 26:63 making a shew of yourself to be above everyone else:

I ADJURE you by the living God, YHWH, El Elyon, to give your answer.

Matthew 26:62-65 KJV
62. And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
63. But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65. Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

But in addition you do not realize that nearly the same words are spoken by the Gerasenon daemoniac Legion:

Mark 5:1-9 KJV
1. And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2. And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3. Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4. Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5. And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6. But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7. And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

You have already loudly proclaimed that you have "turned me over to your God" and that he would "turn me over to HaSatan" to teach me a lesson if need be. So what if I do not answer you now in my own OP thread which you have once again tried to destroy? Are you going to call down fire upon me now if I do not answer you? Go ahead, cry to your god, and call down your fire. And for how long will you cut yourself with all those sharp stones you are continually launching up into the air? Do you not know that they will come back down upon your own head? And whom is it you have reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? The daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee.

1 Kings 18:26-28 KJV
26. And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
27. And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.
28. And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.

Jeremiah 47:5 KJV
5. Baldness is come upon Gaza; Ashkelon is cut off with the remnant of their valley: how long wilt thou cut thyself?

Original Strong's Ref. #1844 (Matthew 26:63 KJV)
Romanized exorkizo
Pronounced ex-or-kid'-zo
from GSN1537 and GSN3726; to exact an oath, i.e. conjure:
KJV--adjure.

Original Strong's Ref. #3726 (Mark 5:7 KJV)
Romanized horkizo
Pronounced hor-kid'-zo
from GSN3727; to put on oath, i.e. make swear; by analogy, to solemnly enjoin:
KJV--adjure, charge.

Matthew 5:33-37 KJV
33. Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34. But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35. Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, ajdiamond.

Retrobyter:

To attempt to impose your will over another with invocation is an act of _________________.

A. Magick
B. Witchcraft
C. Sorcery
D. Ice Cream

Also, it's enlightening to note Matt 26:63--And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

The conditioned egoic consciousness that inspired the high priest to adjure Jesus is similar to the conditioned egoic mentation that popped into your head and has you thinking it's a good idea to adjure. Selah. It's all about leaving that Pharisee consciousness and coming up to One higher, within.

Which all serves to tell me that you don't know what you'd say if God were to ask you why He should let you into His heaven.
Nuff said.

Shalom, daq.

You did not address me by name in your previous two posts before now.
In addition you gave your word, (without me asking) that you had put me on ignore twice now.
In addition you do not answer when I speak to you showing unfair judgment scales using the "ignore" button as a weapon.
In addition you employ the words of the High Priest in Matthew 26:63 making a shew of yourself to be above everyone else:




Matthew 26:62-65 KJV
62. And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
63. But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65. Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

But in addition you do not realize that nearly the same words are spoken by the Gerasenon daemoniac Legion:

Mark 5:1-9 KJV
1. And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2. And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3. Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4. Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5. And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6. But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7. And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

You have already loudly proclaimed that you have "turned me over to your God" and that he would "turn me over to HaSatan" to teach me a lesson if need be. So what if I do not answer you now in my own OP thread which you have once again tried to destroy? Are you going to call down fire upon me now if I do not answer you? Go ahead, cry to your god, and call down your fire. And for how long will you cut yourself with all those sharp stones you are continually launching up into the air? Do you not know that they will come back down upon your own head? And whom is it you have reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? The daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee.

1 Kings 18:26-28 KJV
26. And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
27. And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.
28. And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.

Jeremiah 47:5 KJV
5. Baldness is come upon Gaza; Ashkelon is cut off with the remnant of their valley: how long wilt thou cut thyself?

Original Strong's Ref. #1844 (Matthew 26:63 KJV)
Romanized exorkizo
Pronounced ex-or-kid'-zo
from GSN1537 and GSN3726; to exact an oath, i.e. conjure:
KJV--adjure.

Original Strong's Ref. #3726 (Mark 5:7 KJV)
Romanized horkizo
Pronounced hor-kid'-zo
from GSN3727; to put on oath, i.e. make swear; by analogy, to solemnly enjoin:
KJV--adjure, charge.

Matthew 5:33-37 KJV
33. Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34. But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35. Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

And, neither do you.

 

[daq]

Shalom, SelectThis!, ajdiamond, and anyone else like you.

This only will I ask, and how you answer this question will determine for me whether you could really be considered a brother or not. I do not believe in heaven, per se, but ...

If God were to ask you, "Why should I let you into my heaven?" How would you respond?

CAREFULLY consider your answer. And, I DARE each one of you to give an answer! If you cannot, you have GIVEN me your answer indeed.

Shalom to those who use the "supernal" words:

I'm going to press it further:

I ADJURE you by the living God, YHWH, El Elyon, to give your answer.

Shalom, ajdiamond and daq.

As I said, no answer is an answer.

Shalom, ajdiamond.

Retrobyter:

To attempt to impose your will over another with invocation is an act of _________________.

A. Magick
B. Witchcraft
C. Sorcery
D. Ice Cream

Also, it's enlightening to note Matt 26:63--And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

The conditioned egoic consciousness that inspired the high priest to adjure Jesus is similar to the conditioned egoic mentation that popped into your head and has you thinking it's a good idea to adjure. Selah. It's all about leaving that Pharisee consciousness and coming up to One higher, within.

Which all serves to tell me that you don't know what you'd say if God were to ask you why He should let you into His heaven.
Nuff said.

Shalom, daq.

You did not address me by name in your previous two posts before now.
In addition you gave your word, (without me asking) that you had put me on ignore twice now.
In addition you do not answer when I speak to you showing unfair judgment scales using the "ignore" button as a weapon.
In addition you employ the words of the High Priest in Matthew 26:63 making a shew of yourself to be above everyone else:




Matthew 26:62-65 KJV
62. And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
63. But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65. Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

But in addition you do not realize that nearly the same words are spoken by the Gerasenon daemoniac Legion:

Mark 5:1-9 KJV
1. And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2. And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3. Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4. Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5. And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6. But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7. And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

You have already loudly proclaimed that you have "turned me over to your God" and that he would "turn me over to HaSatan" to teach me a lesson if need be. So what if I do not answer you now in my own OP thread which you have once again tried to destroy? Are you going to call down fire upon me now if I do not answer you? Go ahead, cry to your god, and call down your fire. And for how long will you cut yourself with all those sharp stones you are continually launching up into the air? Do you not know that they will come back down upon your own head? And whom is it you have reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? The daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee.

1 Kings 18:26-28 KJV
26. And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
27. And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.
28. And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.

Jeremiah 47:5 KJV
5. Baldness is come upon Gaza; Ashkelon is cut off with the remnant of their valley: how long wilt thou cut thyself?

Original Strong's Ref. #1844 (Matthew 26:63 KJV)
Romanized exorkizo
Pronounced ex-or-kid'-zo
from GSN1537 and GSN3726; to exact an oath, i.e. conjure:
KJV--adjure.

Original Strong's Ref. #3726 (Mark 5:7 KJV)
Romanized horkizo
Pronounced hor-kid'-zo
from GSN3727; to put on oath, i.e. make swear; by analogy, to solemnly enjoin:
KJV--adjure, charge.

Matthew 5:33-37 KJV
33. Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34. But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35. Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

And, neither do you.

How can you not see that you blatantly DARE the brethren to contradict the commandments of Messiah and blaspheme?

Original Strong's Ref. #1844 (Matthew 26:63 KJV)
Romanized exorkizo
Pronounced ex-or-kid'-zo
from GSN1537 and GSN3726; to exact an oath, i.e. conjure:
KJV--adjure.
Original Strong's Ref. #3726 (Mark 5:7 KJV)
Romanized horkizo
Pronounced hor-kid'-zo
from GSN3727; to put on oath, i.e. make swear; by analogy, to solemnly enjoin:
KJV--adjure, charge.

Matthew 5:34-37 KJV
34. But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35. Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

1 Samuel 15:23a KJV
23a. For rebellion [HSN#4805 mriy (bitterness)] is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

Original Strong's Ref. #4805
Romanized mriy
Pronounced mer-ee'
from HSN4784; bitterness, i.e. (figuratively) rebellion; concretely, bitter, or rebellious:
KJV--bitter, (most) rebel(-lion, -lious).

Have you never fully understood what is the Law of Liberty?

James 2:12-13 KJV
12. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

He that shows no mercy shall have judgment without mercy and here is why:

Matthew 6:12-14 KJV
12. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

It is as simple and plain as this statement: For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. PERIOD! Therefore as the Epistle of James says; So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty: for he that shows no mercy shall have judgment without mercy. Thus your bitterness, which apparently stems from having been proven incorrect in your doctrines by the Scripture these so many times, has caused you to fall into outright rebellion against the commandments of the Master and likewise you have allowed that one to bring you to the point of "daring" and "adjuring" the brethren which is tantamount to forcing them to swear about matters concerning heaven which you stated that you do not believe in to begin with. Be warned, for this sin will lead you deeper into the bitterness of cursings, attempting to curse others which you already boldly have attempted to do herein, and yes indeed, witchcraft according to the Biblical definition. Regardless of what you might think I do love the brethren, including you, but you are in grave error.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, daq.

Not at all. It's not "witchcraft" to bear witness of what Yeshua` did for you! To "adjure" just simply means...

adjure |əˈjo͝or|verb [ with obj. ] formal urge or request (someone) solemnly or earnestly to do something: I adjure you to tell me the truth.
DERIVATIVES [SIZE=medium]adjuration|ˌajəˈrāSHən| [/SIZE]noun. [SIZE=medium]adjuratory[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]|-əˌtôrē[/SIZE]| adjective[SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
ORIGIN late Middle English (in the sense ‘put a person on oath’): from Latin adjurare, from ad-‘to’ + jurare ‘swear’ (from jus, jur- ‘oath’)

On the other hand, it IS a great way to force the issue. It's not rocket science, bro'. Simply state how you were redeemed! In what do you trust?

P.S. - How do you expect me to learn from you this information if I don't occasionally break the "ignore?" It's a catch-22, bro'.

 

[dragonfly]

Um...

In what do you trust?

This question is a bit of a giveaway... Didn't you mean to phrase it another way?

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, dragonfly.

Um...


This question is a bit of a giveaway... Didn't you mean to phrase it another way?

No. I phrased it exactly as I meant it. Not everyone trusts in a "whom" (which I think is where you're going with this question). Some trust in their baptism. Some trust in their good deeds. Some trust in the sacraments. Some trust in the fact that their saintly mother loved them, who has now gone on to be with the Lord; she would gladly speak to Him on their behalf! There are a 1001 different ways that people trust that God will let them into His heaven! And, even if they piously say "JESUS," like little kids do in Sunday School, HOW they "trust in Jesus" can also be a myriad of different ways!

So, I ask the question: "In what do you trust?"

 

[daq]

Shalom, daq.

Not at all. It's not "witchcraft" to bear witness of what Yeshua` did for you! To "adjure" just simply means...

adjure |əˈjo͝or|verb [ with obj. ] formal urge or request (someone) solemnly or earnestly to do something: I adjure you to tell me the truth.
DERIVATIVES [SIZE=medium]adjuration|ˌajəˈrāSHən| [/SIZE]noun. [SIZE=medium]adjuratory[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]|-əˌtôrē[/SIZE]| adjective[SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
ORIGIN late Middle English (in the sense ‘put a person on oath’): from Latin adjurare, from ad-‘to’ + jurare ‘swear’ (from jus, jur- ‘oath’)

On the other hand, it IS a great way to force the issue. It's not rocket science, bro'. Simply state how you were redeemed! In what do you trust?

P.S. - How do you expect me to learn from you this information if I don't occasionally break the "ignore?" It's a catch-22, bro'.

And so your "dare" has nothing to do with the topic of this thread as was already stated. You have once again derailed this thread with your grandstanding, daring, and "adjuring" people. Who are you to come up into my table and make yourself king of my house? Go start your own thread and leave my threads alone like you said you were going to do when you gave your word before God that you were going to ignore me. Since we know how spiritual Sodomites are and you will not stop forcing yourself and your will upon me then perhaps it is time for me to start thirty more threads.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, daq.

And so your "dare" has nothing to do with the topic of this thread as was already stated. You have once again derailed this thread with your grandstanding, daring, and "adjuring" people. Who are you to come up into my table and make yourself king of my house? Go start your own thread and leave my threads alone like you said you were going to do when you gave your word before God that you were going to ignore me. Since we know how spiritual Sodomites are and you will not stop forcing yourself and your will upon me then perhaps it is time for me to start thirty more threads.

No derailing intended. In fact, it gets the thread back on track: How do we know that the Temple is intact if NOBODY'S HOME?! AM I talking to a fellow believer or not? Just answer the question, and I'll leave you alone! I'll tell you what, I won't even comment on what your write if you would just answer the question. And, threats of being a troll won't work.

 

[daq]

Shalom, daq.


No derailing intended. In fact, it gets the thread back on track: How do we know that the Temple is intact if NOBODY'S HOME?! AM I talking to a fellow believer or not? Just answer the question, and I'll leave you alone! I'll tell you what, I won't even comment on what your write if you would just answer the question. And, threats of being a troll won't work.

You are the one who stated that you do not believe in heaven so please start your own thread about it and go explain to everyone why you do not believe in heaven when the Son of man clearly stated that he was "in heaven" even before going to the Cross, (John 3:13). You and I have already had that discussion which was yet another statement of the Master which you disputed and disbelieved. So why do you desire to bring it up again here? Why should anyone keep arguing the same things over and over again with such a one who does not even believe that all of the parables, sayings, and doctrines of the Teacher are applicable to himself or to the modern body of Messiah? You have said the same concerning all of the Matthew 13 parables with the exception of the Parable of the Sower and the Seed. You ask, "AM I talking to a fellow believer or not?" My reply to you is this: Do you believe all of the parables and sayings of Messiah including all of the parables of Matthew 13 apply to yourself, right here, right now, in this day and age; or do you not believe they all apply to yourself right now? The same goes for the seven letters to the seven congregations in the first three chapters of the book of the Revelation of Yeshua: do all seven letters and everything written in them apply to yourself concerning your doctrines or do the seven letters to the seven congregations not apply to you presently? But see you have already answered these questions elsewhere in this forum board so why do you desire to persist in the elementary things here and now when I was attempting to speak of deeper things? Is no one else allowed to go beyond the elementary things just because you say so when you have rejected so many clear emphatic statements of the Messiah, whom we all love, and hold his teachings of Light and Life so dear inside our hearts? The things that are presented in this thread cannot be understood by anyone who rejects the basic and core principle statements of the Yeshua faith. The Kingdom of God is within us and the things spoken here have not to do with the outside, the world, the globe, or Armageddon War maps of the Middle East. You can have your global empire kingdom by force but you cannot take mine because the Lord is my inheritance and the Kingdom of Messiah is not of this world.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, daq.

You are the one who stated that you do not believe in heaven so please start your own thread about it and go explain to everyone why you do not believe in heaven when the Son of man clearly stated that he was "in heaven" even before going to the Cross, (John 3:13). You and I have already had that discussion which was yet another statement of the Master which you disputed and disbelieved. So why do you desire to bring it up again here? Why should anyone keep arguing the same things over and over again with such a one who does not even believe that all of the parables, sayings, and doctrines of the Teacher are applicable to himself or to the modern body of Messiah? You have said the same concerning all of the Matthew 13 parables with the exception of the Parable of the Sower and the Seed. You ask, "AM I talking to a fellow believer or not?" My reply to you is this: Do you believe all of the parables and sayings of Messiah including all of the parables of Matthew 13 apply to yourself, right here, right now, in this day and age; or do you not believe they all apply to yourself right now? The same goes for the seven letters to the seven congregations in the first three chapters of the book of the Revelation of Yeshua: do all seven letters and everything written in them apply to yourself concerning your doctrines or do the seven letters to the seven congregations not apply to you presently? But see you have already answered these questions elsewhere in this forum board so why do you desire to persist in the elementary things here and now when I was attempting to speak of deeper things? Is no one else allowed to go beyond the elementary things just because you say so when you have rejected so many clear emphatic statements of the Messiah, whom we all love, and hold his teachings of Light and Life so dear inside our hearts? The things that are presented in this thread cannot be understood by anyone who rejects the basic and core principle statements of the Yeshua faith. The Kingdom of God is within us and the things spoken here have not to do with the outside, the world, the globe, or Armageddon War maps of the Middle East. You can have your global empire kingdom by force but you cannot take mine because the Lord is my inheritance and the Kingdom of Messiah is not of this world.

Again, you have not answered the question, but I guess I've gotten as good an answer as I can expect to get. I'll leave you alone, now.

 

[dragonfly]

No. I phrased it exactly as I meant it. Not everyone trusts in a "whom" (which I think is where you're going with this question). Some trust in their baptism. Some trust in their good deeds. Some trust in the sacraments. Some trust in the fact that their saintly mother loved them, who has now gone on to be with the Lord; she would gladly speak to Him on their behalf! There are a 1001 different ways that people trust that God will let them into His heaven! And, even if they piously say "JESUS," like little kids do in Sunday School, HOW they "trust in Jesus" can also be a myriad of different ways!

So, I ask the question: "In what do you trust?"

Hello Retrobyter,

I'm not sure whether to ask, 'Are you serious?' with that list of alternative 'trusts'. (You are correct that I had Messiah in mind.)

I would observe, though, that there is one glaring omission from your offering, namely, those who trust in themselves.

As for your invitation to answer your question, I'll be honest, no thank you.

My second observation is that you shouldn't need to ask anyone anything, because we know our brethren by their fruit, as Jesus taught.

Do you know which fruit I mean?

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, dragonfly.

Hello Retrobyter,

I'm not sure whether to ask, 'Are you serious?' with that list of alternative 'trusts'. (You are correct that I had Messiah in mind.)

I would observe, though, that there is one glaring omission from your offering, namely, those who trust in themselves.

As for your invitation to answer your question, I'll be honest, no thank you.

My second observation is that you shouldn't need to ask anyone anything, because we know our brethren by their fruit, as Jesus taught.

Do you know which fruit I mean?

I'll answer this last question, and then I'm out of this thread.

Sure, I'm serious. PEOPLE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THOSE THINGS and a whole lot more! And, you're right about those who trust in themselves, as well.

Another refusal? I just don't get what the big deal is for you all. I JUMP at the invitation to share my faith and tell how Yeshua` saved me! I LOVE and WANT to praise and glorify Him for the amazing work God has done in my life through Him! I would think that you would, too!

Psalm 107:1-3
107 O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;
3 And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, from the north, and from the south.
KJV

1 Peter 3:14-16
14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
KJV

This is Peter's admonition to his readers when confronted by those who would "speak evil of you." It's good practice to be able to give an answer to those who already believe! Am I that much of an ogre that you can't trust me as a brother?

Sure, I understand the fruit you mean: it's the fruit of the Spirit that is evident (and growing) in every true believer's life. (Galatians 5:22-23) But, you've gotta admit that the fruit is somewhat ... sparse ... around here.

 

[daq]

This is Peter's admonition to his readers when confronted by those who would "speak evil of you."

Is this not your own form of evil speak in your quote below?

No derailing intended. In fact, it gets the thread back on track: How do we know that the Temple is intact if NOBODY'S HOME?! AM I talking to a fellow believer or not? Just answer the question, and I'll leave you alone! I'll tell you what, I won't even comment on what your write if you would just answer the question. And, threats of being a troll won't work.

YOU are the one trolling my threads and intentionally derailing everything I have written, said, or quoted, (including Scripture) toward your own ends and benefit. I have only opened four threads in this Eschatology Board since arriving here and YOU have either derailed or helped to derail all four of them by turning them into useless arguments over egotistical things. Am I not allowed to have a voice just because the great and wise Retro disagrees? You are no different then the same generation who slew Zacharias son of Berechias between the altar and the naos because they slit his throat by misinterpreting his words and thus silencing his voice. There are other people here with many more threads than the measly four I have offered, (I saw one calling himself a "chaplain" with more than a hundred OP thread starts and his doctrine appears to be along the same lines as your own). Are they also "trolls" according to the standard you now level against me? I think not but once again you reveal just like the Pharisees that you employ unfair scales so as to enforce your unrighteous judgments against others. Your judging of myself is nothing because you are not the judge. For the same reason your theology is in so great error because, as you have stated, you believe that you received the wisdom of God simply for the asking. Do you honestly believe the wisdom of God is yours for the taking? That is pretty much what you said in your arrogance without even knowing how offensive it was when you said it. The arrogance you exude without even knowing it, (while at the same time calling others in this forum "narcissists" as you have likewise done) might work for you in your heart and mind so as to make you feel special, thinking yourself to be more knowledgeable than everyone else, but in the real world you would be fired on the spot for some of the ridiculous speculations that you promote as absolute truth. In the real world Johnny Rotten does not get an A+ in art class for spreading his feces all over the classroom walls like a monkey and neither does he get a trophy every time he strikes out. The one who is whispering in your ear and telling you how wise and right you always are is a liar; especially when he is telling you that you do God a service by silencing the brethren of Yeshua.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Retrobyter,

Another refusal? I just don't get what the big deal is for you all.

#121

Yeshua`s victory on the cross - that Roman execution stake - was thorough but it was not complete. All the seeds for all of His conquests were accomplished at that time, but they have NOT all come to fruition, yet. Only someone wearing those proverbial "rose-colored glasses" would think to say that this world shows ANY sign that all of His conquests have come to fruition!

You have, in the past, stated that you don't believe in victory over sin - for yourself. Now... I may have misunderstood you but I don't think so.

Thus, when you say that 'the world' shows no 'sign that all of his conquests have come to fruition', your own heart is one of the places in this earth - by your own admission - which has not been submitted to His victory. Perhaps this is also a reason you think His victory 'was not complete'?

I fully accept that your interpretation, as frequently expounded, has not happened. This is either a pointer to the possibility that it may never happen, or, (apart from the possibility that it may happen eventually) that you have not quite understood what Yeshua said to his disciples when they asked him about the kingdom being restored to Israel; (Acts 1) (where Israel means 'God prevails'. Perhaps they had forgotten that?) because Jesus pointed straight back to themselves: 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Which 'kingdom' was ever truly lost? Was it not the kingship of the Father in His son Adam's life? Isn't this why the gospel is good news? It is not about kudos for giving our 'testimony' but about spreading the word of the greatness of God's love for man in sending His Son to die for us.

The 'kingdom' which Yeshua died to restore is the rulership of righteousness in the hearts of man?


There is more.... If you read the OT looking for references to righteousness and the other attributes of righteousness, there are many many more than the references to God remembering 'the land' (which is prefaced in Exodus 19 by His assertion that 'all the earth' is His).

So, returning to why no-one wants to answer your question, it is to do with the reason you gave for asking it (quite apart from the manner of it).

This only will I ask, and how you answer this question will determine for me whether you could really be considered a brother or not. I do not believe in heaven, per se, but ...

If God were to ask you, "Why should I let you into my heaven?" How would you respond?

To put it bluntly, this is so far from anything God would ever ask, it makes it look as if you don't know Him or how He thinks, or anything that He has said to reveal His heart throughout the whole of scripture. For one who is against others putting words into God's mouth - when you don't understand where the words have come from - in this case you have given yourself as an example of what not to do, and how not to do it.

Nevertheless you are free in your own sight to judge your brethren here because no-one is going to stop you.

But, is it wise?

Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?


In other words, any one of us being able to answer to your satisfaction would prove nothing; although you might find the intellectual exercise yields you a certain amount of satisfaction.

Anyway, none of us is fit to judge someone else's salvation - for obvious reasons. Acts 17:31

 

[ENOCH2010]

Any Sunday school child can answer the question Roy ask, it amazes me that people get on here and try to teach the word of God to other men and wont answer a simple question .