1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Temples

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by daq, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. daq

    daq HSN#1851

    Messages:
    822
    Likes Received:
    63
    Hi dragonfly, well said. :)


    It is also amazing that you get on here and see that your teacher feels the need to open up a new grandstand soapbox line of questioning right here in the middle someone else's thread, while claiming that he has the member on ignore in even in his own OP thread, and you think that is a wonderful idea. Yet every time that same member has asked you any questions elsewhere in this thread, or anywhere else in this forum, you have never answered any of them.

    However, what is not so surprising is that I did indeed answer the question yet neither you nor your comrade understood that I even answered it. Have you also never understood the Law of Liberty? Now therefore you have no excuse for abolishing Torah in your heart and mind.
     
  2. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

    Messages:
    14,859
    Likes Received:
    1,272
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    This is a tricky subject to moderate as we are dealing with Eschatology here. There is no clearly defined theology on the subject, although some have a formidable grasp of biblical end times events. However, it can only be viewed as a matter of one's own personal opinion, understanding or revelation as I doubt that anyone has got a complete handle on the whole eschatology thing....I would therefore advise members to stick to the O/P as I can see that it is beginning to veer off topic. If you wish to discus another aspect of this topic...please start another thread.

    Thank you!
     
  3. Jacob_Rising

    Jacob_Rising New Member

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4
    Jesus explanation of the Sower is his explanation of 4 parables at once.


    The sower
    The wheat and tares
    The mustard seed

    The Leaven hid in 3 measures.

    The 3 measures are the 3 parables that Jesus had just told.

    When he explains one, he explains all 3 simply because one could not be explained alone.

    It would be like trying to explain a soul without a body, or a body without a spirit.
     
  4. Giver

    Giver New Member

    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    [SIZE=large]Paul said Christians are temples of God.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=large]Jesus said it much simpler. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=large](John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=large]Does God live in a temple? Paul said he does. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=large]God makes a home in those who love him. Does that not mean that those who love God are in the kingdom of God?[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=large]Remember those who love God do not sin. Sinning is not living God’s Word.[/SIZE]
     
  5. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    141
    And keeps His word.

    Let's not forget we are talking about disowning one's life (taking up one's cross) and being active in carrying out His commands.

    The apostle John slices this every possible way in His first epistle, with great simplicity, (just as Paul writes oodles about it in his own way epistle after epistle), capturing the raw reality of Jesus' insistence that we obey Him, as well as love Him.

    1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

    10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

    14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

    16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

    18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

    19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

    If we're meeting all the criteria laid out by John, it does. :)
     
  6. Giver

    Giver New Member

    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen!
     
  7. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    208
    Just because our Lord Jesus and His Apostles used the idea of the spiritual temple does not mean the physical temple in Jerusalem didn't exist, nor even that it won't exist for His future "thousand years" reign. The reason being Ezekiel 40-47 gives a specific temple layout that has never, ever... been built. Even it's number of steps leading up to it is different than any previous temple built in Jerusalem. And the tree of life and waters of the river of life is associated with the temple in Ezekiel.

    It should be quite obvious why our Lord Jesus made the idea of the spiritual temple more important for this present world after His 1st coming to die on the cross. It was for the sake of The Gospel in contrast to the unbelieving Jews who rejected Him. This is why we see per history The Gospel taking hold in the western nations first, far away from Jerusalem.

    And now that brethren in the Christian west have since had no requirement to go to Jerusalem to worship in a physical temple, does that mean that will never... be required? NO! For in Zechariah 14 towards the end of the chapter we are shown after... Christ's return ALL familes of the earth... will be required to go up to Jerusalem to worship and keep the feast of tabernacles, and those nations that refuse there will be no rain upon their lands.
     
  8. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    141
    Hi veteran,

    Do you really believe that Ezekiel's temple is going to be built out of physical materials (in the same way as the temples which previously existed at Jerusalem), because .... although one can find a picture of a 'model' of Ezekiel's temple at least one place online, the offerings seem disproportionate.

    Exodus 16:36 Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah.

    Ezekiel 45:11 '...and the ephah the tenth part of an homer...'


    I am inclined to believe the generous offerings to be brought to the temple Ezekiel describes, are spiritual in meaning, although they are described using physical symbols. Surely the water flowing out under the door, is the word of God, by the Holy Spirit?
     
  9. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    208
    There's no way for me to know for sure if Ezekiel's temple will be constructed out of raw materials like we would do. I just know per God's Word that The LORD is Who is going to build it, and it will be located here upon the earth (per Zech.6 and Rev. and Ezek.). And then per the last chapters of Revelation for God's Eternity there will be no further need for any temple. But for Christ's future thousand years reign the temple of Ezekiel will be established in the area of Jerusalem, because specific areas of the holy land in the middleast are defined in conjunction with it.

    So what you're really kind of asking me is if The LORD is able to create something physical out of thin air. My answer to that would be, what did Jesus do to the man's ear that Apostle Peter cut off at Gethsemane?
     
  10. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    141
    Hi veteran,

    Could I ask you to look at the entry from Genesius on this page, please, for Strong's number H1964?

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H1964&t=KJV

    I am particularly interested by inclusion of the word 'nave', which is effectively a corridor - a passage towards the altar, where there is an intersection, making the crossing corridors form the shape of a cross. The nave, however, goes from the entrance towards the intersection.

    This is reminiscent of Isaiah 35, and Isaiah 62 - 10 Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; Cast up, cast up the highway ....

    12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord:
    and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.

    1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace,
    and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest,
    until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness,
    and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
    2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness,
    and all kings thy glory:
    and thou shalt be called by a new name,
    which the mouth of the Lord shall name.
    3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord,
    and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
    4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken;
    neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate:
    but thou shalt be called Hephzibah,
    and thy land Beulah:
    for the Lord delighteth in thee,
    and thy land shall be married.



    It's not about 'the earth' in the sense of 'the land' outside our bodies. WE will be the ones shining. The light of God is in us - if it is.

    If the heavenly Jerusalem is on the earth right now, it is because we are. If we are not here, neither will it be.
     
  11. Pelaides

    Pelaides New Member

    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    19
    Here is something i found on another website. "To explain the tremendous number of details of ezekiels temple using allegory detracts from a disciplined interpretation of the text".
     
  12. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    141
    Hi Pelaides,

    Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but if your comment is a response to my post, then... I was not talking about allegory, and neither is veteran.
     
  13. Pelaides

    Pelaides New Member

    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    19
    I believe you were trying to say that the temple described in Ezeikel is symbolic.
     
  14. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    141
    Before I comment on that, I'm assuming you've read the descriptions in Ezekiel?

    Now the following extract is not necessarily about a 'temple', but it does demonstrate one of the difficulties. Can you spot the problem and how would you solve it?

    Ezekiel 40
    [SIZE=10.5px]5 And behold a wall on the outside of the house round about, and in the man's hand a measuring reed of six cubits long by the cubit and an hand breadth: so he measured the breadth of the building, one reed; and the height, one reed.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10.5px]6 Then came he unto the gate which looketh toward the east, and went up the stairs thereof, and measured the threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad; and the other threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad. 7 [/SIZE]And every little chamber was one reed long, and one reed broad; and between the little chambers were five cubits; and the threshold of the gate by the porch of the gate within was one reed.
     
  15. Pelaides

    Pelaides New Member

    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    19
    You seem to me to be the type of individual who reads the Bible looking for mistakes,and contradictions,rather than accepting it at face value.
     
  16. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    141
    Please don't change the subject from the text to me. <_<

    I gave you a section of scripture which I wanted you to read 'at face value', so that you could give me the benefit of your spiritual insight as to how it could be translated into a physical building, such as you seem to be believe Ezekiel's temple should be.

    Are you suggesting there are errors in the text, and that is why you cannot answer my question?
     
    ajdiamond likes this.
  17. Pelaides

    Pelaides New Member

    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    19
    Here are 2 verses from 2 different prophets concerning the same prophesy.

    Revelations 11:1

    Zechariah 2:2

    Replicas of Gods temple have already been created,using the exact blueprint found in Ezekiel,they can easily be found on the internet.So I dont undrerstand why you feel the layout is not realistic.
     
  18. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    43
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Shalom, dragonfly.

    Sorry, but I just couldn't resist. You only don't understand the physicality of this future Temple because you don't WANT to understand it will exist physically.

    What you are reading here is not a contradiction in any way; you are reading about the little rooms that are on either side of the outer gates. Some refer to these rooms as "guard rooms." Here's a source that can show you what I mean:

    http://www.templemount.org/ezektmp.html
     
  19. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    141
    Hi Pelaides and Retrobyter,

    Do either of you have any idea why Ezekiel's layout was not used after Judah was released from Babylon?
     
  20. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    43
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Shalom, dragonfly.

    Sure. It's because they have never been out from under somebody's reign, even after moving back to the Land. They initially were still a province of Persia, and while Z'rubavel, and heir to David's throne, could be a governor, he could not be an independent king while part of the Persian empire. Later, they were under the dominion of the Seleucid Empire and then the Roman Empire. It's kind of hard to set up a kingdom when you're being ruled!

    The layout won't be used until the Messiah Yeshua` can demand independence from ALL other authorities. Currently, the state of Isra'el is led by "prime ministers" or "head servants" to the One who will be God's King, but they shall give their authority willingly to the One who can show His God-given right to reign as God's Messiah.
     
Loading...