The 144,000 before God at the end.

[Zao is life]

None of that even makes a bit of sense.
More wild generalities

None of anything you have ever said was biblical or made any sense. You still have not answered this post because you know perfectly well that you can't because nothing you say is based on the Bible.

 

[Zao is life]

Are any of you aware that the 144,000 are Jews and that they are Messianic Jews???
they believe in Jesus

it says they follow him wherever he goes

I really wish you guys would study the word more precisely

The tribes are named. They are not all Judah's descendants.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are the one who never makes any sense. Your wild generalities are the sandy foundation of your replacement theology so that you can replace Christ's elect with those He knows not.

You thinking I am replacement theology?????
I am opposite of that

 

[rebuilder 454]

None of anything you have ever said was biblical or made any sense. You still have not answered this post because you know perfectly well that you can't because nothing you say is based on the Bible.

I clicked on it.
Nothing happens
What is it?
Maybe copy and paste it.

 

[Zao is life]

You thinking I am replacement theology?????
I am opposite of that

If you replace God's elect in Christ with unbelievers - whether Jews or Gentiles - you are a Replacement theologist.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is nothing anyone can bring to the table that I can not address.
Bring it.

 

[Zao is life]

I clicked on it.
Nothing happens
What is it?
Maybe copy and paste it.

It's you who needs to 'crack open a Bible'. You have three fingers pointing right back at you, and a wet thumb. I challenge you to find me two scriptures that mention "the tribulation" of the world besides the two I mention below:​

PERSECUTION, TRIBULATION, & GREAT TRIBULATION​

Persecution of Jesus: John 5:16

Persecution of Christians: Matthew 5:10-12; John 15:20; Acts 22:4; Acts 26:11; 1 Corinthians 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:9; 2 Corinthians 4:9; Galatians 1:13 & 23; Galatians 4:29; Galatians 5:11

Persecution of "the woman" who gave birth to the Messiah: Revelation 12:13​

TRIBULATION OF NON-CHRISTIANS​

There are only two verses in the New Testament referring to tribulation experienced by non-Christians:-

1. Of all who do evil: Romans 2:9.
2. Of the world as repayment for bringing tribulation upon the saints: 2 Thessalonians 1:6.​

TRIBULATION OF APOSTLES OR CHRISTIANS:- ​

Matthew 13:21 (Parallel: Mark 4:17); Matthew 24:9 & 29 (Parallel Mark 13:24); John 16:33; Acts 11:19; Acts 14:22; Acts 20:23; Romans 5:3; Romans 8:35; Romans 12:12; 2 Corinthians 1:4, 6 & 8; 2 Corinthians 2:4; 2 Corinthians 4:8; 2 Corinthians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 6:4; 2 Corinthians 7:4-5; 2 Corinthians 8:2; Ephesians 3:13; Philippians 1:16; Philippians 4:14; Colossians 1:24; 1 Thessalonians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 & 7; 2 Thessalonians 1:4, 6-7; 2 Timothy 1:8; 2 Timothy 3:11; 2 Timothy 4:5; Hebrews 10:32-33; 1 Peter 5:9; Revelation 1:9; Revelation 2:9-10, 22; Revelation 7:14.​

GREAT TRIBULATION
[Greek: mégas thlîpsis]​

Mentioned only three times in the New Testament:-

First mention: The Olivet Discourse: Matthew 24:21-22 (Parallel: Mark 13:19-20) *

"for then shall be mégas thlîpsis (great tribulation), such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be.
And unless those days should be shortened, no flesh would be saved. But for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened." (Also see Matthew 24:9).

"And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." (Matthew 24:29-31).

Third mention: Revelation 7:13-14:

Revelation 7:9-10, 13-15
9 After these things I looked, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues, stood before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palms in their hands.
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb.

And one of the elders answered, saying to me, Who are these who are arrayed in white robes, and from where do they come?

And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are the ones who came out of great tribulation [mégas thlîpsis] and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb.

Second mention: Revelation 2:21: "Behold, I will cast her (Jezebel) into a bed, and them (those Christians) that commit adultery with her into mégas thlîpsis (great tribulation), except they repent of their deeds."

* Luke 21:23 uses the words great distress and wrath to describe what was to come upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem (not the word tribulation):

"But woe to those who are with child, and to those suckling in those days! For there shall be great distress [anánkē] in the land and wrath [orgḗ] on this people."
​

So, you see, Jesus did not lie when He said "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

See what happens when your practice of changing the meaning of scripture gets you exposed by the scripture you refuse to acknoweldge???

I challenge you to find me two scriptures that mention "the tribulation" of the world besides the two I mentioned above.
​

Of course, you won't, because you're too busy telling others to crack open a Bible to be concerned about cracking open a Bible yourself to find out what the Bible actually teaches ..

@rebuilder 454 please answer the challenge in bold at the bottom of the above post. Prove you 'crack open your Bible' before posting a load of nonsense in Christianity Boards.

 

[Zao is life]

There is nothing anyone can bring to the table that I can not address.
Bring it.

If only. You only bring your own dizzy confused false interpretations of scripture based on the sandy foundation of your lack of cracking open a Bible and actually studying what it says before you post.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Dispensationalists believe there are two separate gospels - one for the Jew and a separate one for the Gentiles

We know for a fact the Jews, you know the ones that supposedly do not exist, are WAITING on the messiah.
They just do not know he is Jesus.

How ironic to discuss that dynamic with people that assert falsely there are no Jews left.

 

[Zao is life]

@rebuilder 454 silent again.

He won't answer when he can't provide a biblical answer that he first needs to 'crack open a Bible' to glean from scripture.

 

[Zao is life]

We know for a fact the Jews, you know the ones that supposedly do not exist, are WAITING on the messiah.
They just do not know he is Jesus.

How ironic to discuss that dynamic with people that assert falsely there are no Jews left.

No one is Israel just because he is a physical descendant of Israel. Not all are Abraham's seed. Millions of Gentiles who do not believe in Jesus have one of the twelve tribes of Israel in the ancestral genetic make up. Does that make them Israel too?

 

[David in NJ]

We know for a fact the Jews, you know the ones that supposedly do not exist, are WAITING on the messiah.
They just do not know he is Jesus.

How ironic to discuss that dynamic with people that assert falsely there are no Jews left.

How can they know their Messiah is JESUS?

 

[David in NJ]

"dispensation"
(A dispensing of time)
Another one liner hoping to void the pretrib rapture verses.
Now God is forbidden to operate in time frames.
SMH



Omisionalists believe Jesus sitting on a horse, coming after the the trib / wrath is the same as Jesus sitting on a cloud holding a sickle coming during the trib.
They also believe that Jesus sitting on a horse coming after the tribulation with millions of saints on horses blackening the sky, is the same as Jesus coming for his bride in Matthew 25 with no horses, no sickle, no tribulation, and commerce along with normal life .

Omissinalists evolve into changealists.
They change their bibles when they are challenged with the pretrib rapture facts.
All of them white out " before the flood" then high five each other for OMITTING "before the flood"
144k evolves into millions/ billions of non Jews.
Jews become non Jews.
I guess tribes are actually denominations!!!
Hey there is a potential anti pretrib dynamic.!!!!
Now tribes cam changealistically reframed innto denominations.
POOOOF!!!! Another one liner to make the rapture verses voided inti "white out land" .
Remember...you heard it here first!!!
Tribes = denominations.
SMH

So the bible becomes their private dart board that they sling any clever change at it they make up.
"makeupalists".

pre-trib rapture facts are only found in the 'Left Behind' books.

 

[rebuilder 454]

@rebuilder 454 please answer the challenge in bold at the bottom of the above post. Prove you 'crack open your Bible' before posting a load of nonsense in Christianity Boards.

What about the great trib are you looking for.???
I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND what is going on with those smoking gun talking points that omitters use to void verses.
It is you and him that needs to show me what you guys are hoping to white out using THOSE DEFINITIONS.
Show me ANY trib, wtath, great trib etc in the pretrib rapture verses.
Show me.
All you "bible experts" need to apply your definition to the pretrib rapture verses .
No clever one liners void any of those verses

in fact, we do see tribulation at the gathering of the Jews in rev 14.
You know, the chapter ya'll explain away.

 

[rebuilder 454]

How can they know their Messiah is JESUS?

The 144k do.
The others will be converted as they see him on the cloud maybe?
It is always a remnant.
It is the work of the Holy Spirit that brings men to Christ

 

[rebuilder 454]

pre-trib rapture facts are only found in the 'Left Behind' books.

 

[rwb]

but the Jew is not cast out ,he is only removed for a season.
it says so very clearly in Romans 11 that they will be grafted back in

In saying the Jew "is only removed for a season", I'm assuming you are basing that comment on this passage from Ro 11.

Romans 11:25-27 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

In saying "he is only removed for a season", you imply the time/day will come when "all Israel shall be saved" speaks of ethnic Jews, am I correctly understanding your doctrine here? If I am, how do you explain "all Israel shall be saved" comes to fullness because Gentiles have come into the same good olive tree as they? Does that not mean "all Israel shall be saved" are not ethnic Jews, but rather "Israel of God" that includes both Jew and Gentiles of faith?

IOW "all Israel that shall be saved" has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity as you imagine but is according to grace through faith to whosoever among mankind believes! No replacing of ethnic Jews, rather proving that since the advent of Christ come to earth a man the way to salvation is open to ALL who believe, that the Church does not replace Jews of faith, but rather includes Gentiles of faith into the Kingdom of God TOGETHER with them so they might be ONE Body of believers in Christ Jesus, our Lord.

 

[rebuilder 454]

pre-trib rapture facts are only found in the 'Left Behind' books.

Just keep on omitting "Before the Flood", and the Gathering in Revelation 14 during the tribulation and you'll be okay

 

[rebuilder 454]

In saying the Jew "is only removed for a season", I'm assuming you are basing that comment on this passage from Ro 11.

Romans 11:25-27 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

In saying "he is only removed for a season", you imply the time/day will come when "all Israel shall be saved" speaks of ethnic Jews, am I correctly understanding your doctrine here? If I am, how do you explain "all Israel shall be saved" comes to fullness because Gentiles have come into the same good olive tree as they? Does that not mean "all Israel shall be saved" are not ethnic Jews, but rather "Israel of God" that includes both Jew and Gentiles of faith?

IOW "all Israel that shall be saved" has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity as you imagine but is according to grace through faith to whosoever among mankind believes! No replacing of ethnic Jews, rather proving that since the advent of Christ come to earth a man the way to salvation is open to ALL who believe, that the Church does not replace Jews of faith, but rather includes Gentiles of faith into the Kingdom of God TOGETHER with them so they might be ONE Body of believers in Christ Jesus, our Lord.

Paul said "to the Jew first, and also to the greek".
Factor in the ethnic Jewish dynamic.

 

[rebuilder 454]

If only. You only bring your own dizzy confused false interpretations of scripture based on the sandy foundation of your lack of cracking open a Bible and actually studying what it says before you post.

more generalities.
No verses.
In fact nothing of the bible in your posts.