The 144,000 before God at the end.

[Timtofly]

@Timtofly



Like I have said multiple times before, Its the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of all believing nationalities Rev 7 9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

The 144k are seperate and on the earth. The church is the multitude in heaven. One group is not the same as the other group. Two entirely different locations.

The 144k is not the church. Nobody knows who the 144k are until they are sealed after the Second Coming.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Paul is addressing the Galatian Church, which included both Jews and Gentiles, and has been true of the Church ever since.

Nothing to do with physical ethnicity, but everything to do with spiritual ethnicity.

Two genes.

Faith and obedience.

And nothing else.

God is not a racist.

Stop trying to contort him into one.

Got it?

No.
it is saying, basically ," ...the blessings of Abraham are come upon the gentiles".
We are GRAFTED in.
We are connected to ABRAHAM/Sarah.
THAT is the " children of the promise" we are now in THAT FAMILY.That is a fact.
Psssst...... it even says ,"the children of Haagar have no inheritance."
So stop acting like you have a clue.
You just plainly do not understand what is being conveyed.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The bible appears to deny what your saying 144000 are the army that Jesus comes with.The bible gives a different picture before the throne of God.
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Yep.
But the elephant in the room is that they are "FIRSTFRUITS".
They are a "different" harvest.
Almost nobody discerns that.
And it is the main component of discerning the 144k.
Without that as the main component, we see clearly the confusion over them.
It is called "condemnation PRIOR to investigation"
The bible becomes a thorn at that point.
No pun intended

 

[brightfame52]

The 144k are seperate and on the earth. The church is the multitude in heaven. One group is not the same as the other group. Two entirely different locations.

The 144k is not the church. Nobody knows who the 144k are until they are sealed after the Second Coming.

Like I have said multiple times before, Its the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of all believing nationalities Rev 7 9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

 

[covenantee]

No.
it is saying, basically ," ...the blessings of Abraham are come upon the gentiles".
We are GRAFTED in.
We are connected to ABRAHAM/Sarah.
THAT is the " children of the promise" we are now in THAT FAMILY.That is a fact.
Psssst...... it even says ,"the children of Haagar have no inheritance."
So stop acting like you have a clue.
You just plainly do not understand what is being conveyed.

Try as you might, God cannot be contorted into a racist.

You might as well stop trying.

 

[Keraz]

Like I have said multiple times before, Its the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of all believing nationalities Rev 7 9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Why can't people see that the 144k are selected out of the great multitude? Jesus does it, as He stands on Mt Zion, Revelation 14:1-5

Try as you might, God cannot be contorted into a racist.

But people who believe they are going to be raptured to heaven, HAVE to have the ethnic Jews in Israel, in order for their incredible theory to work.
It sad really, as they need to twist and alter the truths of scripture, to their discredit.

 

[Davy]

The bible appears to deny what your saying 144000 are the army that Jesus comes with.The bible gives a different picture before the throne of God.
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

You aren't even reading all the Revelation 7 Scripture.

 

[Davy]

@Timtofly



Like I have said multiple times before, Its the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of all believing nationalities Rev 7 9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Yep! The "great multitude" is probably the greater portion of Christ's Church represented in Rev.7.

But the 144,000 of Israelites of the 'seed' also represent Christ's Church. Reason is because of their being SEALED by God's Seal, which involves The Holy Spirit!

The "great multitude" represents the GENTILES in Christ that are SEALED also. I know Rev.7 doesn't talk about the "great multitude" being 'sealed' with God's Seal, but it is EASY to KNOW they are, because Apostle John is being shown their status with Christ POST-FACTO, i.e., at His future Throne, in the future "thousand years" timing.

I mean, come on folks, this is actually very easy what Lord Jesus is showing us in that Rev.7 about the SEALING of God's Seal by The Holy Spirit in prep to go through the great trib and not be deceived! No believer on Christ Jesus will be an 'overcomer' in Him without being 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit for the end.

 

[covenantee]

Psssst...... it even says ,"the children of Haagar have no inheritance."

Favor us with the verbatim quote of what "it says".

And don't defile it by trying to contort Paul into a racist.

He can't be contorted.

 

[ewq1938]

Why can't people see that the 144k are selected out of the great multitude?

They are selected and sealed LONG before the great multitude ever is gathered together. Two vastly different timeframes.

 

[Keraz]

They are selected and sealed LONG before the great multitude ever is gathered together. Two vastly different timeframes.

And you get that from what scriptures?
Even Isaiah 66:18b-21 places the group that proclaims the coming Kingdom, [the 144k] along with the gathering of the Christian peoples.

 

[ewq1938]

And you get that from what scriptures?

The ones both groups appear in. I believe the sealing of the 144k takes place prior to the GT as the sealing is used to protect them during that time. The multitude is seen in the eternity, clues to the proper timeframe located in the passage. Rev isn't chronological so one must use the text to identify the correct timeframe.

 

[Keraz]

The multitude is seen in the eternity

The great multitude of Revelation 7:9 is seen by John soon after the Sixth Seal event.
Gods people from every tribe, race, nation and language, on earth, in Jerusalem, as Jesus is revealed to them; 2 Thess 1:10, Isaiah 31:2-3 & 28

 

[Davy]

The ones both groups appear in. I believe the sealing of the 144k takes place prior to the GT as the sealing is used to protect them during that time. The multitude is seen in the eternity, clues to the proper timeframe located in the passage. Rev isn't chronological so one must use the text to identify the correct timeframe.

Once again, no one will go through the coming "great tribulation" as an 'overcomer' in Christ Jesus without being 'sealed' with God's seal by The Holy Spirit. That means the "great multitude" shown standing next to Christ's throne in the future had... to have been 'sealed' in prep for the tribulation also. The Scripture declares they came out of... great tribulation and washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb Jesus, which reveals they had gone through... the great trib.

 

[Davy]

The great multitude of Revelation 7:9 is seen by John soon after the Sixth Seal event.
Gods people from every tribe, race, nation and language, on earth, in Jerusalem, as Jesus is revealed to them; 2 Thess 1:10, Isaiah 31:2-3 & 28

When Rev.7:9 points to "of all nations" in contrast to the specific 12,000 Israelites out of the 12 tribes listed prior, that is to reveal that many Gentiles of the nations will have been 'sealed' with God's seal by The Holy Spirit also.

So what's the buzz with many folks here? brains not working? No one will stand before Christ's throne in the future without having been sealed with God's seal. And there certainly ain't... gonna' be no pre-trib rapture either. Not grasping this matter in Rev.7 must be because of so many here stuck on man's false Dispensationalist theories instead of keeping God's Word as written.

Eph 1:12-13
12 That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
KJV

Eph 4:30
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
KJV

 

[Timtofly]

Like I have said multiple times before, Its the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of all believing nationalities Rev 7 9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

That great multitude has been serving God day and night since the Cross. It just does not "pop" into existence at the Second Coming. There are no ethnicities in Paradise. They are from all nations on the earth, but that distinction stopped the moment a soul entered God's permanent incorruptible physical body, upon arriving in Paradise.

The body in heaven is not the birth body you had on earth. 2 Corinthians 5:1.

 

[Keraz]

When Rev.7:9 points to "of all nations" in contrast to the specific 12,000 Israelites out of the 12 tribes listed prior, that is to reveal that many Gentiles of the nations will have been 'sealed' with God's seal by The Holy Spirit also.

Your belief of there being two types of people in Rev 7, is a violation of the text.
They are all the one people of God and all have come safely thru the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. The 144k are chosen out of the faithful Christian peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language.
NOTE; tribes. There's a clue! Those peoples, at least some of them; each belong to one of the 12 tribes of ancient Israel. God knows who; Amos 9:9

The peoples who John sees in Rev 7:9, will be divided into 12 groups, all assigned to a tribe named as per the list in Rev 7 and settled in the land area as set out in Ezekiel 47 to 48
ALL before Jesus Returns and commences His Millennium reign.

 

[brightfame52]

Yep! The "great multitude" is probably the greater portion of Christ's Church represented in Rev.7.

But the 144,000 of Israelites of the 'seed' also represent Christ's Church. Reason is because of their being SEALED by God's Seal, which involves The Holy Spirit!

The "great multitude" represents the GENTILES in Christ that are SEALED also. I know Rev.7 doesn't talk about the "great multitude" being 'sealed' with God's Seal, but it is EASY to KNOW they are, because Apostle John is being shown their status with Christ POST-FACTO, i.e., at His future Throne, in the future "thousand years" timing.

I mean, come on folks, this is actually very easy what Lord Jesus is showing us in that Rev.7 about the SEALING of God's Seal by The Holy Spirit in prep to go through the great trib and not be deceived! No believer on Christ Jesus will be an 'overcomer' in Him without being 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit for the end.

The Great multitude all ethnicities including jews, germans africans etc

 

[brightfame52]

Yep! The "great multitude" is probably the greater portion of Christ's Church represented in Rev.7.

But the 144,000 of Israelites of the 'seed' also represent Christ's Church. Reason is because of their being SEALED by God's Seal, which involves The Holy Spirit!

The "great multitude" represents the GENTILES in Christ that are SEALED also. I know Rev.7 doesn't talk about the "great multitude" being 'sealed' with God's Seal, but it is EASY to KNOW they are, because Apostle John is being shown their status with Christ POST-FACTO, i.e., at His future Throne, in the future "thousand years" timing.

I mean, come on folks, this is actually very easy what Lord Jesus is showing us in that Rev.7 about the SEALING of God's Seal by The Holy Spirit in prep to go through the great trib and not be deceived! No believer on Christ Jesus will be an 'overcomer' in Him without being 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit for the end.

The Great multitude all ethnicities including jews, germans africans etc

 

[brightfame52]

That great multitude has been serving God day and night since the Cross. It just does not "pop" into existence at the Second Coming. There are no ethnicities in Paradise. They are from all nations on the earth, but that distinction stopped the moment a soul entered God's permanent incorruptible physical body, upon arriving in Paradise.

The body in heaven is not the birth body you had on earth. 2 Corinthians 5:1.

Like I have said multiple times before, Its the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of all believing nationalities Rev 7 9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.