The 144,000 Represent The Male Count, The Daughters Of Zion Represent The Female Count

[guysmith]

The 144,000 represent the male count of those found with Christ "standing on Mount Zion."
　
Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins.
　
The Daughters of Zion represent the female count of those that are "escaped of Israel."

Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach. 2In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. 3And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: 4When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning. 5And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence. 6And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the day time from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

 

[242006]

The 144,000 are spiritual virgins -- not sexual virgins.

 

[Martin W.]

The 144,000 are spiritual virgins -- not sexual virgins.

What about this ......

No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. [sup]4[/sup] These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. [sup]5[/sup] No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

 

[Martin W.]

The 144,000 represent the male count of those found with Christ "standing on Mount Zion."
　
Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins.
　
The Daughters of Zion represent the female count of those that are "escaped of Israel."

Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach. 2In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. 3And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: 4When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning. 5And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence. 6And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the day time from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

guysmith

I am having trouble with this one , or I am missing your point altogether maybe. I am talking about "The daughters of Zion"

In Isaiah 3 it describes them :

[sup][/sup]

[sup]16[/sup] The LORD says,
“The women of Zion are haughty, walking along with outstretched necks, flirting with their eyes, strutting along with swaying hips, with ornaments jingling on their ankles.
[sup]17[/sup] Therefore the Lord will bring sores on the heads of the women of Zion; the LORD will make their scalps bald.” [sup]18[/sup] In that day the Lord will snatch away their finery: the bangles and headbands and crescent necklaces, [sup]19[/sup] the earrings and bracelets and veils, [sup]20[/sup] the headdresses and anklets and sashes, the perfume bottles and charms, [sup]21[/sup] the signet rings and nose rings, [sup]22[/sup] the fine robes and the capes and cloaks, the purses [sup]23[/sup] and mirrors, and the linen garments and tiaras and shawls. [sup]24[/sup] Instead of fragrance there will be a stench; instead of a sash, a rope; instead of well-dressed hair, baldness; instead of fine clothing, sackcloth;
instead of beauty, branding.

Sounds like the Lord is pretty displeased and in ch 4 he says:

The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Sounds to me like he is washing away the filth left in Jerusalem from the women. Not making the women some kind of daughter of Zion.

Like I said just trying to understand your point and maybe I have misunderstood. The relationship to the 144,000 is also puzzling.

Thanks

Martin.

 

[guysmith]

Hello Martin,

You stated: Like I said just trying to understand your point and maybe I have misunderstood. The relationship to the 144,000 is also puzzling.


My response: The coming GT is predicted to be the worst period of persecution of all time.

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Christ, however, implies that there will be Christians which physically survives to His advent.

Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The prophets state that "Mount Zion in Jerusalem" is the "place" where the "survivors" will be located.

Joel 2: 32
And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

In the end, the only one found stand with Christ on Mount Zion is the 144K which are the male survivors.

Revelation 14:1
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

And the daughters of Zion are the female survivors.

Isaiah 4
1 In that day seven women will take hold of one man and say, “We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!”
2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over everything the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

You stated: Sounds to me like he is washing away the filth left in Jerusalem from the women. Not making the women some kind of daughter of Zion.

My response: Like the siege on Jerusalem in 70AD, the conditions within the walls of the Old City are not going to be like a weekend-shopping-spree-at-Macys. As you have quoted Isaiah:

Isaiah 3: 24
Instead of fragrance there will be a stench; instead of a sash, a rope; instead of well-dressed hair, baldness; instead of fine clothing, sackcloth; instead of beauty, branding.

However, in the end, Christ is going to come and fight for those inside the Old City of Jerusalem, where he is going to clean-house....

Zechariah 14
1 A day of the LORD is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.
2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

....thus fulfilling Isaiah's prophecy:

Isaiah 4: 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Guy

 

[242006]

What about this ......

No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. [sup]4[/sup] These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. [sup]5[/sup] No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

A little homework in the Greek will first lay the foundation for the scripture in question, which, then, can be verified elsewhere in the Bible.

Rev 14:4​

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These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

​

The word 'defiled' in Strong's Concordance -

G3435
​

μολύνω
molunō
mol-oo'-no

Probably from G3189; to soil (figuratively): - defile.

​

The word 'defiled' is figurative in its connotation, which means it is not a literal sexual act. The Greek word meaning 'contamination of the flesh' is G3392 in Strong's, as used in Jud. 1:8. If Rev. 14:4 actually meant the literal sexual act with a woman, the Greek word G3392 would be used instead of G3435.

Accordingly, the clause "defiled with women, for they are virgins" is an allegorical figure of speech. The allegory relates sexual acts to false religion, which, in the endtime, is Satan's religious system within Christianity. In the flesh, when a man cheats on his wife, he defiles himself with another woman. Likewise, one cheats on the true Christian religion by defiling themselves with Satan's Doctrine -- which, is none other than 'Rapture'.

The Bible is replete with sexual connotations associated with religious/spiritual impropriety.

 

[veteran]

Christ, however, implies that there will be Christians which physically survives to His advent.

That's true, but how according to the LIE you're trying to spread that going to Jerusalem PRIOR to Christ returns means to survive.

Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The prophets state that "Mount Zion in Jerusalem" is the "place" where the "survivors" will be located.

It is NOT about trekking to Jerusalem during the great tribulation in thinking to escape the tribulation. Prior to Christ's return, Jerusalem will be a terrible spot to be on earth. It is where tribulation central will be located, until Christ returns. Jesus told us to STAY AWAY from Judea when the signs of the abomination (idol) of desolation is setup there and armies surrounding Jerusalem happens (Matt.24; Mark 13; Luke 21:21).


Here's what Joel 2 actually states in the KJV.

Joel 2:31-32
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
(KJV)

When will that "deliverance" happen for that "remnant"? ONLY WITH CHRIST'S COMING TO END THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

PRIOR to Christ's coming there will be NO deliverance in Jerusalem! Only a false prophet would want those in Christ to think deliverance is by going to Jerusalem during the tribulation.

Revelation 14:1
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

And the daughters of Zion are the female survivors.

Isaiah 4
1 In that day seven women will take hold of one man and say, “We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!”
2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over everything the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

Problem is, BOTH of those Scriptures are for AFTER CHRIST HAS GATHERED HIS SAINTS, and of course, that won't happen UNTIL His coming.

But you are preaching to go to Jerusalem BEFORE Christ returns, which is preaching a LIE. For Christ never said any such thing anywhere in His Word. You're trying to fool the unlearned into thinking those above Scriptures mean protection in Jerusalem during the great tribulation, when those verses are not about the tribulation time, but for AFTER the tribulation during Christ's Milennium reign on earth.

THAT IS A PRE-TRIB SECRET RAPTURE DOCTRINE YOU'RE ARE PREACHING GUY

 

[Martin W.]

At times like this I begin to understand why for many years the church chained the scriptures to the pulpit. .It can be a dangerous thing to let the peasant delude himself into believing he is a scholar.

Unbelievable.

Sorry.

Martin

 

[242006]

If God did not want the peasants to know the true Word of God, certainly God would have seen to it that all remained under Catholic control.

 

[veteran]

Yeah, and it's pretty easy to fathom those on a Pre-trib doctrine haven't really studied all of their Bible, but only care about the parts which only 'seem' to support their fly away theories. There's actually no Biblical support for it at all.

But Guy's twist with thinking one must be in Jerusalem to be saved when the tribulation is going on is something new, yet, God's Word warns against that idea too. Eccl. wants to flee using the Rev.12 wilderness idea, and Guy wants to be in Jerusalem treating it as the Rev.12 wilderness idea. Both are applying the wilderness idea literally, when all along it's given as a spiritual metaphor against the flood out of the dragon's mouth, which is about lies of deception.