The 144,000
- Thread starter IAmAWitness
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She is my mother and Jesus' mother of whom you are speaking. She is clothed with the Sun. Christ is the Sun. She has overcome the Law, the "moon" at her feet. Crowned with the Crown of Life, Israel, the Bride of Christ. Bringing forth Christ, just exactly as we are to bring forth Christ in our lives! We are impregnated by the Holy Spirit in Holy Matrimony when we receive our Husband from the Grave, Married and Fruitful with Children of God. It is all about salvation. This is the New Marraige Covenant in Christ's Blood.
He who speaks against the Wife of God and especially calls her a *hore* shall reap a curse upon their heads never to be lifted. I used to teach as you. But when a man of God pointed out to me what I've pointed out to you, I repented in dust and ashes.
Read who our mother is.
(Mar 3:33)
And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
(Mar 3:34)
And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
(Mar 3:35)
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
(Gal 4:26)
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(Rev 21:2)
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(Rev 12:1)
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
(Rev 12:2)
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
(Joh 16:21)
A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
(Gal 4:19)
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Retrobyter
Active Member
Shalom, Guestman.
Nuts. While it is true that the 144,000 ISRA'ELIS are "those individual chosen by YHWH Eloheinu to be a kingdom and priests," it is WRONG to apply that to anyone other than the ISRA'ELIS of whom it was written! There's not as much analogy as you might like to think in Revelation; much of it still is literal and should be taken as literal rather than making ridiculous claims otherwise! Sorry, but you're not going to hide behind a couple of misapplied verses and think to take this out of the realm of challenge! Anyone who is TRULY lead by the Ruach haQodesh is going to see through the fluff and call your bluff!
So, here's your bluff: Those who are God's "FAITHFUL" servants are going to "SEE" that Revelation was written in "signs and that much of it is not literal." That's your claim; SO, if one were to try to challenge that then that person is not one of God's "FAITHFUL" servants? HOW AUDACIOUS! HOW LUDICROUS! HOW HOLIER-THAN-THOU IS THAT?! That kind of tom-foolery just makes my skin crawl!
KEEP IT REAL! Let's look at the context of Matthew 11:25-26, shall we?
Matthew 11:1-30
1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.
2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3 And said unto him,
Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
4 Jesus answered and said unto them,
Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. (Isaiah 35:4-6; 42:5-7)
6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John,
What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (Malachi 3:1)
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
25 At that time Jesus answered and said,
I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
KJV
The "these things" in verse 25 is not just some arbitrary "things" that you can take a misapply to just anything; the "these things" are the MIRACLES that He performed through the power of His Father!
Baloney! First of all, check your English version of the Bible against the Greek; the word "sacred" in "sacred secrets" is NOT THERE! Someone was getting too verbose in their translation attempt. Second, the "Kingdom of the heavens" is the "Kingdom from the skies!" Furthermore, God's Kingdom is not "interwoven" with the number 144,000 even if 144,000 ISRA'ELIS were chosen to serve in the official positions of kings and priests! And, the "Kingdom of God" (God's Kingdom) is a "heavenly government, unseen to human eyes?" You won't get that from a careful reading of Dani'el 2:44 or anywhere else, for that matter!
There once was a politician making a speech to a tribe of native Americans who was waxing eloquent and promising them all sorts of concessions, and the tribal members were cheering "Hoyadah! Hoyadah!" with every promise the politician would make! This would encourage him to make even broader promises, and the cheers were increasing in volume as he made wide, sweeping gestures in his address. When he was done with his speech, the tribe's chief was leading him across the field to the tent where the chief had prepared a special meal in the politician's honor. As they walked, they were talking and not paying too much attention to the path. Suddenly, the chief grabbed his arm and pulled him to the side. "Careful! Don't step in hoyadah!"
God's Kingdom being a "heavenly government, unseen to human eyes" is hoyadah, brother! When Yeshua` returns He will be a VERY LITERAL KING in a VERY LITERAL REALM OF ISRA'EL, and THIS is the kingdom that one should be understanding from Dani'el 2:44!
You can't stop there!!! Read verse 39, too!
Matthew 23:39
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till (until) ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV
It's not over for them, and they have NOT been replaced! (More hoyadah!) What do you think determines when Yeshua` returns? Well, according to Yeshua` Himself, it will be when the Jews of Jerusalem can say these words! This is a quote from Psalm 118:26:
Psalm 118:22-26
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O Lord: O Lord, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord.
KJV
The Hebrew of this phrase is "Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH." It means "Welcome, Comer on [the] authority of YHWH!" When they can welcome Him back, then He will return!
Wow! MORE hoyadah! It's getting deep in here! Maybe we can find a pony in all this! First of all, the "cornerstone" of Isaiah 28:16 is NOT the same kind of "cornerstone" in Psalm 118:22! Isaiah 28:16 is talking about a foundation stone, but Psalm 118:22 is talking about the "head stone of the corner" or "of the angle" and is talking about the CAPSTONE of a pyramid!
Second, God's Kingdom is not taken from the nation of Isra'el permanently; it was taken from that generation, yes, and it will remain apart from them until they can say the words above! But, don't think that God has PERMANENTLY removed Isra'el! They are Yeshua`s MISHPACHAH! His FAMILY!
If you think that's all there is to the Isra'elites being God's Chosen Ones, you're sadly mistaken! They are close to His heart! Also, the "olive tree" is ISRA'EL, not the "church" or some group of people renamed as "spiritual Isra'el!" This "olive tree" goes back to the Isra'el as it SHOULD HAVE BEEN and WAS under David's and S
mo's (Solomon's) rulership! Believing Goyim (Gentiles) may also be grafted in, but they are grafted "contrary to nature" while Y'hudiym (Jews) and Isra'eliym (Isra'elites) are grafted "into THEIR OWN olive tree!" Be sure to read Romans 11 CAREFULLY!
No! That's not right! The 144,000 are chosen OUT OF THE TRIBES OF ISRA'EL; however, there is ALSO the "huge multitude that no man could number" that is IN ADDITION TO these 144,000. It is to THAT group that Gentile believers belong!
Oh, boy! MORE hoyadah! Just drop the stupid word "spiritual." You're not using the word correctly, anyway. Yeshua` WAS/IS the Sacrificial Keves (a yearling Lamb) for Pesach (Passover)! And, He is MORE real as that Sacrifice than the lambs yearly used for Pesach! These 144,000 ISRA'ELITES are LITERALLY going to be "virgins" in the NORMAL SENSE of the word! And, don't go making some bogus analogous comparison between these 144,000 and the prostitute Bavel (Babylon). You are making more analogy than the text supports!
You don't need to make up analogies that don't exist in the Scriptures. They won't support them, and the analogies are FORCED between books and even between passages within a single book! You're concocting them in your mind, but they don't exist on paper.
Nuts. While it is true that the 144,000 ISRA'ELIS are "those individual chosen by YHWH Eloheinu to be a kingdom and priests," it is WRONG to apply that to anyone other than the ISRA'ELIS of whom it was written! There's not as much analogy as you might like to think in Revelation; much of it still is literal and should be taken as literal rather than making ridiculous claims otherwise! Sorry, but you're not going to hide behind a couple of misapplied verses and think to take this out of the realm of challenge! Anyone who is TRULY lead by the Ruach haQodesh is going to see through the fluff and call your bluff!
So, here's your bluff: Those who are God's "FAITHFUL" servants are going to "SEE" that Revelation was written in "signs and that much of it is not literal." That's your claim; SO, if one were to try to challenge that then that person is not one of God's "FAITHFUL" servants? HOW AUDACIOUS! HOW LUDICROUS! HOW HOLIER-THAN-THOU IS THAT?! That kind of tom-foolery just makes my skin crawl!
KEEP IT REAL! Let's look at the context of Matthew 11:25-26, shall we?
Matthew 11:1-30
1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.
2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3 And said unto him,
Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
4 Jesus answered and said unto them,
Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. (Isaiah 35:4-6; 42:5-7)
6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John,
What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (Malachi 3:1)
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
25 At that time Jesus answered and said,
I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
KJV
The "these things" in verse 25 is not just some arbitrary "things" that you can take a misapply to just anything; the "these things" are the MIRACLES that He performed through the power of His Father!
Baloney! First of all, check your English version of the Bible against the Greek; the word "sacred" in "sacred secrets" is NOT THERE! Someone was getting too verbose in their translation attempt. Second, the "Kingdom of the heavens" is the "Kingdom from the skies!" Furthermore, God's Kingdom is not "interwoven" with the number 144,000 even if 144,000 ISRA'ELIS were chosen to serve in the official positions of kings and priests! And, the "Kingdom of God" (God's Kingdom) is a "heavenly government, unseen to human eyes?" You won't get that from a careful reading of Dani'el 2:44 or anywhere else, for that matter!
There once was a politician making a speech to a tribe of native Americans who was waxing eloquent and promising them all sorts of concessions, and the tribal members were cheering "Hoyadah! Hoyadah!" with every promise the politician would make! This would encourage him to make even broader promises, and the cheers were increasing in volume as he made wide, sweeping gestures in his address. When he was done with his speech, the tribe's chief was leading him across the field to the tent where the chief had prepared a special meal in the politician's honor. As they walked, they were talking and not paying too much attention to the path. Suddenly, the chief grabbed his arm and pulled him to the side. "Careful! Don't step in hoyadah!"
God's Kingdom being a "heavenly government, unseen to human eyes" is hoyadah, brother! When Yeshua` returns He will be a VERY LITERAL KING in a VERY LITERAL REALM OF ISRA'EL, and THIS is the kingdom that one should be understanding from Dani'el 2:44!
You can't stop there!!! Read verse 39, too!
Matthew 23:39
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till (until) ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV
It's not over for them, and they have NOT been replaced! (More hoyadah!) What do you think determines when Yeshua` returns? Well, according to Yeshua` Himself, it will be when the Jews of Jerusalem can say these words! This is a quote from Psalm 118:26:
Psalm 118:22-26
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O Lord: O Lord, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord.
KJV
The Hebrew of this phrase is "Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH." It means "Welcome, Comer on [the] authority of YHWH!" When they can welcome Him back, then He will return!
Wow! MORE hoyadah! It's getting deep in here! Maybe we can find a pony in all this! First of all, the "cornerstone" of Isaiah 28:16 is NOT the same kind of "cornerstone" in Psalm 118:22! Isaiah 28:16 is talking about a foundation stone, but Psalm 118:22 is talking about the "head stone of the corner" or "of the angle" and is talking about the CAPSTONE of a pyramid!
Second, God's Kingdom is not taken from the nation of Isra'el permanently; it was taken from that generation, yes, and it will remain apart from them until they can say the words above! But, don't think that God has PERMANENTLY removed Isra'el! They are Yeshua`s MISHPACHAH! His FAMILY!
If you think that's all there is to the Isra'elites being God's Chosen Ones, you're sadly mistaken! They are close to His heart! Also, the "olive tree" is ISRA'EL, not the "church" or some group of people renamed as "spiritual Isra'el!" This "olive tree" goes back to the Isra'el as it SHOULD HAVE BEEN and WAS under David's and S
mo's (Solomon's) rulership! Believing Goyim (Gentiles) may also be grafted in, but they are grafted "contrary to nature" while Y'hudiym (Jews) and Isra'eliym (Isra'elites) are grafted "into THEIR OWN olive tree!" Be sure to read Romans 11 CAREFULLY!No! That's not right! The 144,000 are chosen OUT OF THE TRIBES OF ISRA'EL; however, there is ALSO the "huge multitude that no man could number" that is IN ADDITION TO these 144,000. It is to THAT group that Gentile believers belong!
Oh, boy! MORE hoyadah! Just drop the stupid word "spiritual." You're not using the word correctly, anyway. Yeshua` WAS/IS the Sacrificial Keves (a yearling Lamb) for Pesach (Passover)! And, He is MORE real as that Sacrifice than the lambs yearly used for Pesach! These 144,000 ISRA'ELITES are LITERALLY going to be "virgins" in the NORMAL SENSE of the word! And, don't go making some bogus analogous comparison between these 144,000 and the prostitute Bavel (Babylon). You are making more analogy than the text supports!
You don't need to make up analogies that don't exist in the Scriptures. They won't support them, and the analogies are FORCED between books and even between passages within a single book! You're concocting them in your mind, but they don't exist on paper.
And who is this mother with illegitimate child you belong too?
And that sun represents what...please dont say Christ?
Would this be the same Christ in Rev 16:8 whom the angel poured out his vial upon?
And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and it was given unto him to scorch men with fire. (Rev 16:8)
Little do you understand of the symbolic reference to moon. The moon derives its light, or influence, from the sun, so that the symbol is appropriate to illustrate a religious state which derives its authority from the Government.
Your supporting quotes looked like you hit search on your Bible program; copied, pasted, thinking they were applicable to the context of Rev 12:1.
They were not.
TGG
When one is unable to expound the Word correctly, as per Rev 12:1 and Rev 16:8, what is left but to scorn and taunt the one trying to show you truth. Humility and a willingness to seek a deeper truth was not the path chosen by you on this occasion.
So far it appears the following is your position:
Woman = Church
Man Child = Christ
Sun = Christ
Moon = Law
I have shown you:
Woman = Apostate Church
Man Child = The man who brought Church and State together - any thoughts?
Sun = Government of that time
Moon = The State who received its light (authority from the sun) as per the principle in Rev 16:8
If you would like me to bring this together in explaining the woman's cry, traveling in birth and the meaning behind "pained to be delivered", I am willing.
Already a great many unanswered statements exist concerning your understanding of Rev 12 and thus far it is noted only personal taunts remain.
This vision in Rev 12:1-4 goes on to describe an attempt to destroy the Man Child after he has been brought forth.
It is here you have yet another problem!
Now Psa 2, and especially the words, 'this day have I begotten thee', can apply only to Christ after his resurrection when he became 'the firstborn from the dead'; and after the resurrection no enemy could or did make any attempt to destroy him as in Rev 12:4.
Not only are the meaning of your symbols completely misguided but the context of Rev 12 is speaking historically to an entirely different event as the Revelation unveils those things which must surely come to pass “hereafter”…that is post Christ being in Heaven sitting at the right hand of the Father on high having all powers and principalities at his disposal.
In addition to this maybe you could after all explain the Sun of Rev 16:8 and how you believe the vial was poured from heaven upon Christ? (how can that make sense?)
You began by saying "I was poor and empty" but you would agree these taunts often descibe the state of the one giving them, was this not the case with the Pharisees?
I will not taunt you, only to say your understanding in this matter is in error.
TGG
neophyte wrote: " Terry, It is possible that you perhaps used the wrong Greek- Peter the Rock... "
Well that is why requested you display it here...
Then you stated this... " you don’t know any Greek. That’s the trouble with your Church and with your scholars. You people don’t ... "
Was this meant to be insulting? and insults allows you position above me? that is inferior thinking... and so I hope the following helps you.
If you wish to be positioned above someone or some people... instead of trying to beat them down until they are lower than you... which never works.
Why not try showing yourself righteous and merciful in our posts, that you are lifted above them... by them... they "they" have elevated you?
It is much more difficult, but much more rewarding as they will have respect rather than contempt for you. And you will have respect for them.
And you are wrong... I do know some Greek.
With that said... Do you have the "correct" language that allows one to decipher the 666 and canyou display it that I may consider it? That would be appreciated.
Trekson wrote: " Hi Witness, Your words: "Are they Jews? Not any more than we are Jews, as we are grafted into to one and the same tree."
The bible tells us specifically who they are and what tribes they are from. They are all national uncompromising jews who will enter the millennium to serve as the future Israeli priesthood. They are NOT the church, imo! "
Right Trekson!!! However I do not "know" they cannot also be considered the Church... I will leave that understand for Go to reveal to me if needed.
Well that is why requested you display it here...
Then you stated this... " you don’t know any Greek. That’s the trouble with your Church and with your scholars. You people don’t ... "
Was this meant to be insulting? and insults allows you position above me? that is inferior thinking... and so I hope the following helps you.
If you wish to be positioned above someone or some people... instead of trying to beat them down until they are lower than you... which never works.
Why not try showing yourself righteous and merciful in our posts, that you are lifted above them... by them... they "they" have elevated you?
It is much more difficult, but much more rewarding as they will have respect rather than contempt for you. And you will have respect for them.
And you are wrong... I do know some Greek.
With that said... Do you have the "correct" language that allows one to decipher the 666 and canyou display it that I may consider it? That would be appreciated.
Trekson wrote: " Hi Witness, Your words: "Are they Jews? Not any more than we are Jews, as we are grafted into to one and the same tree."
The bible tells us specifically who they are and what tribes they are from. They are all national uncompromising jews who will enter the millennium to serve as the future Israeli priesthood. They are NOT the church, imo! "
Right Trekson!!! However I do not "know" they cannot also be considered the Church... I will leave that understand for Go to reveal to me if needed.
whitestone,
Have you any thoughts on Rev 16:8 and Rev 12:1 in terms of your understanding of the Sun to mean Christ?
TGG
We are not yet the wife of Christ...
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Has not yet happened, occurs at His return.
How sad for you! You haven't decided to marry Jesus in the New Covenant yet? Jesus is knocking on your door begging you to let Him come in and sup with you!
(Rev 3:20)
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
(Rom 7:4)
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
When you do John, you will then be 'born again' literally, "born from above" as it says in the Greek. Then you will have a Mother also of course :)
(Gal 4:26)
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
I hope you decide to come to the marriage supper of the lamb and feast with us :) This is the only means by which you can bring forth Christ in you in birth and understand the things of the Spirit and NOW be a Son of God (1 John 3:2)
If you put this off because you have "futurized" yourself into oblivion, you will never marry Him.
Now is the accepted time, behold, NOW is the day of salvation. Don't put it off any longer. Marry Him Now while it is called To Day and He will Come as promised and NEVER leave you and NEVER forsake you even unto the ends of forever.
Peace and Love in Christ, OUR HUSBAND
(2Co 11:2)
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
Producing the "Son" within us;
(Joh 16:19)
Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?
(Joh 16:21)
A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
When we marry Christ as His Bridegroom, (when WE decide), THEN He fills us with His Holy Spirit in the Holy Bedchambers of Matrimony, our Heart is One with Jesus then. Marriage. THEN do we see "CHRIST IN YOU/ME" coming forth in birth pangs and tribulations of our life, into a mature complete man of God. The Gospel. This is the ONLY manner in which we are saved into Sons of God.
This happens Now for us, or it will Never happen for us. The religion of "futurism" is of the devil and not to be believed. It is ALL NOW :)
(2Co 6:2)
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
I get a kick out of those misquoting...
2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
to show this is the only day of salvation, this is a direct quote from...
Isa 49:8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
Today is a day of salvation for the few who are called...
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
This is a tough scripture to explain for those who suppose Jesus is standing around, wringing His hands, just hoping someone will believe on Him. His Feast Days show quite a different approach...
Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.
Jesus Christ the Wave Sheaf.
Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Lev 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.
Those called prior to His return, the "little flock". We call this Pentecost in the New Testament, see Acts 2.
Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
The Feast of Trumpets, the return of Christ and the resurrection...
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Lev 23:27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Lev 23:28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
And the whole earth becomes at one with God.
Lev 23:34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD.
Lev 23:35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
The Millenium is pictured in the Feast of Tabernacles when all the world will be under the rule and reign of Jesus Christ. (He did say He was coming back didn't He?)
Lev 23:36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.
Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
The Last Great Day also known as the Great White Throne Judgment when all who have never had a chance will be given their opportunity for salvation.
Don't be sad for me, I understand God's 7000 year plan of salvation and it is not the Great Controversy that the SDA's teach. God is not trying to save the world while the Devil is trying to get everyone lost. When God set's His hand to save the world, He will not come out on the short end. If one thinks that He is desparately trying to save all of mankind today, He sure isn't looking too good at it, now is He?
2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
to show this is the only day of salvation, this is a direct quote from...
Isa 49:8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
Today is a day of salvation for the few who are called...
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
This is a tough scripture to explain for those who suppose Jesus is standing around, wringing His hands, just hoping someone will believe on Him. His Feast Days show quite a different approach...
Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.
Jesus Christ the Wave Sheaf.
Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Lev 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.
Those called prior to His return, the "little flock". We call this Pentecost in the New Testament, see Acts 2.
Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
The Feast of Trumpets, the return of Christ and the resurrection...
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Lev 23:27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Lev 23:28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
And the whole earth becomes at one with God.
Lev 23:34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD.
Lev 23:35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
The Millenium is pictured in the Feast of Tabernacles when all the world will be under the rule and reign of Jesus Christ. (He did say He was coming back didn't He?)
Lev 23:36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.
Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
The Last Great Day also known as the Great White Throne Judgment when all who have never had a chance will be given their opportunity for salvation.
Don't be sad for me, I understand God's 7000 year plan of salvation and it is not the Great Controversy that the SDA's teach. God is not trying to save the world while the Devil is trying to get everyone lost. When God set's His hand to save the world, He will not come out on the short end. If one thinks that He is desparately trying to save all of mankind today, He sure isn't looking too good at it, now is He?
Greetings,IAmAWitness said:
These virgins have not been defiled by woman, yet it does not mean they are all men. Solomon was unfaithful to Christ, for he became defiled by woman and was unfaithful to the Word when he tried to please his spouses and became an idol worshipper.
There is neither male nor female in the HOLY body of Christ for they all will be in the image of Christ the Living Word, the man child of Rev. 12 being the children/sons of God caught up.
Matt 25:1-13
25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
KJV
Blessings
The 144,00 of Rev.7 represent Christ's elect of the seed of Israel (all tribes except... ?).
ISRAELITE JEWS = Judah, Benjamin, Levi
NON-JEW ISRAELITES (ten tribes) = Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nephthalim, Manasses, Simeon, Issachar, Zabulon, Joseph.
Notice the tribe of Dan is left out, as also Ephraim.
The "great multitude" of Rev.7 represent the elect of the Gentiles in Christ.
BOTH the 144,000 and the great multitude represent the firstfruits to Christ Jesus, and will reign with Him when He returns.
ISRAELITE JEWS = Judah, Benjamin, Levi
NON-JEW ISRAELITES (ten tribes) = Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nephthalim, Manasses, Simeon, Issachar, Zabulon, Joseph.
Notice the tribe of Dan is left out, as also Ephraim.
The "great multitude" of Rev.7 represent the elect of the Gentiles in Christ.
BOTH the 144,000 and the great multitude represent the firstfruits to Christ Jesus, and will reign with Him when He returns.
I agree with your assessment of the 144,000 and I believe it will be the tribes of Rev. 7 on the gates ofm the NJ, not the ones from the latter chapters of Ezekial, which include Dan, which is misinterpreted as heving millennial significance.
.
you are not the 144000 and neither am i .... you must have some strange pride running thru you to even think so ..... this is a dangerous boast you make .... be carefull sir ... best wishes
.IAmAWitness said:
you are not the 144000 and neither am i .... you must have some strange pride running thru you to even think so ..... this is a dangerous boast you make .... be carefull sir ... best wishes
The meaning of undefiled virgins is in the spiritual sense, which it appears somewhat is what you're saying. It's simply being used as a metaphor there in Rev.14 to point to Christ's elect, i.e. the five wise virgins you properly associate with it.afaithfulone4u said:
We must not forget those mentioned in Rev.15, which also are shown having gotten victory over the beast, and are without number like those of the "great multitude" of Rev.7.
When both groups of Rev.14 & Rev.15 are considered together, it reveals another association like Rev.7 with the 144,000 and the "great multitude". And that aligns perfectly with the rest of God's Word about an elect remnant of the seed of Israel according to grace which God preserved, along with the believing Gentiles out of all nations, which makes up Christ's Church, per Romans 11.
Trekson said:
The layout of Israelite tribes at the end of Ezekiel is the final layout, with Dan and Ephraim brought back in. That has to be either Milennium time or after; definitely not of this present time.
Arnie Manitoba said:
Need to look deeper at Old Testament history Arnie. The ten tribes were scattered among the Gentiles and lost their heritage as being part of Israel. Those of the "house of Judah" did not lose their heritage as Israelites. And this was per God's promise through His OT prophets (especially Hosea).
The majority of those Israelites on the list of Rev.7 within the 144,000 are not Jews of the "house of Judah" (Judah, Benjamin, Levi). Per that list only 36,000 of them can be Jews of the "house of Judah", since that house is only about those 3 tribes per history.
Per history and God's Word, the two houses ("house of Israel" and "house of Judah" per God's Word) have NOT been joined together yet. Ezekiel 37 reveals that joining will not occur until after Christ's second coming.
This reveals that the rest of the 144,000 are not Jews of the "house of Judah". And if they are not Jews, but still Israelites, then they represent the scattered remnants of the "house of Israel", i.e. the ten tribes who were never known as Jews. It also reveals that the majority of Israelites of both the "house of Judah" (Jews) and the "house of Israel" (ten tribes), will NOT be of that 144,000, and thus deceived.
A child's wisdom ( not verbatium )
A shoeless child stood standing outside peering through the window of a shoe store.
A wioman asked him what he was doing and he replied...praying to God for shoes.
The woman took the child inside and then asked for a basin of water and a towel.
She then asked for 6 pairs of socks. After she washe the child's feet she asked for a pair of shoes and then put the child's feet nto abrand new socks.
The shoes arrived and she carefully put them on the child's feet. With the new shoes and socks and gleaming in delight., the child asked of the woman... Are you God's Wife?
A shoeless child stood standing outside peering through the window of a shoe store.
A wioman asked him what he was doing and he replied...praying to God for shoes.
The woman took the child inside and then asked for a basin of water and a towel.
She then asked for 6 pairs of socks. After she washe the child's feet she asked for a pair of shoes and then put the child's feet nto abrand new socks.
The shoes arrived and she carefully put them on the child's feet. With the new shoes and socks and gleaming in delight., the child asked of the woman... Are you God's Wife?
You can watch what you say you degenerate worker of darkness. You are not God and so therefore have no authority to make this determination. Be careful sir, and pray to your God for a tamed tongue.Arnie Manitoba said:
Iamawwitness... Arnie ended his post with becareful and best wishes so he did temper his words. Sure he speculated that you are not of the 144,000 and that is not necessarily that difficult to determine in part. Are you a Jew? are you a virgin? the first step is both of these questions must be answered with yes. Next I would ask if you have the seal pf God on your forehead for if not then you shoul;d not be certain. Then I would ask why do you call yourself I am a Witness? For You are definately not one of the two witnesses, for sure. but I am just asking...
You wrote: " You can watch what you say you degenerate worker of darkness. You are not God and so therefore have no authority to make this determination. Be careful sir, and pray to your God for a tamed tongue. "
So you called Arnie a degenerate worker of darkness and then asked him to tame his tongue...??? You should heed your own advice, I think.
You wrote: " You can watch what you say you degenerate worker of darkness. You are not God and so therefore have no authority to make this determination. Be careful sir, and pray to your God for a tamed tongue. "
So you called Arnie a degenerate worker of darkness and then asked him to tame his tongue...??? You should heed your own advice, I think.
Revelation 1:1, 3 says: "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it signs through him to his slave John.....Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it, for the appointed time is near."Trekson said:
From Revelation 1 onward, John sees in vision such things as "seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man, clothed with a garment that reached down to his feet, and girded about his breasts with a golden girdle...hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes as a fiery flame....and he had in his hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long two edged sword was protruding."(Rev 1:12-16)
At Revelation 4, John by vision is allowed entrance into heaven, before Jehovah's throne, whereby he sees "round about the throne there are twenty-four thrones" upon which sit "twenty-four elders in white outer garments" having "golden crowns".(Rev 4:4)
At Revelation 12, it says that "a great sign was seen in heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun.......And another sign was seen in heaven, and look ! a great fiery-colored dragon." Is the "woman" a real woman or is the fiery-colored dragon a real dragon ? No. Rather these picture both a righteous organization and a wicked spirit person.
At Revelation 13, John sees a "wild beast" that is "ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads".(Rev 13:1) Would you think that a seven headed ten horned wild beast is literal ? If so, you need to reevaluate your comprehension.
At Revelation 17, there is seen a "harlot", Babylon the Great, that represents which God hates, false religion and uses "a scarlet-colored wild beast" as that which devastates her.(Rev 17:3, 16) These are only a few "signs" seen in the Bible book of Revelation So, it needs to be remembered that Revelation is written ""in signs" that must be accurately discerned as to their meaning.
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