The (7th) Abomination That Maketh Desolate

[Earburner]

No, you are making a contrast between spirit and physical. There is no such contrast that allows "spiritual" to move through walls.

God can appear or disappear, just because God controls all aspects of creation.

God is a Spirit, and prior to Jesus' incarnation, he also was Spirit. Only Jesus Himself has seen the Father.
John 6
[46] Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Though Jesus' mortal body was conceived (created) by the Holy Spirit of God, God the Father Himself did not dwell within Jesus' mortal body, until Jesus' baptism.
Heb. 10[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a [mortal] body hast thou prepared me:

God the Father then descended upon Him, to dwell within him, until the moment when Jesus was "foresaken" of by His Father, while on the cross.
But, in the Glory of His resurrection, they were REunited again FOREVER.
Mat. 3
[16] And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

God sitting on the GWT, has been a physical phenomenon since Genesis 1. We are just not allowed to see it, as God controls what we cannot see or can see. Luke 24:15-16

Yes, we ALL who do believe, DO SEE THE GWTJ. It's plainly spoken of in KJV John 3:18.

"And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him."

If I witnessed the death of my Mom, saw her in her casket, then saw her put into a grave, but then three days later, she was physically walking along side me with my friends, my mind would not recognize her, because we all know and accept the fact, that in this world, the death of a body IS FINAL! Physically, by our own minds, we do not know of anything else.

 

[Timtofly]

How do you fabricate that man was given an eternal soul, when both the KJV and the Catholic DR bibles say that "man became a living soul"? Gen. 2:7.
The words "given" and "Eternal" are not there.

Edit:
Do you not see "the gulf that is between us", simply by an erroneous interpretation from Gen. 2:7??
If such a critical error in reading the beginning of God's word is allowed, it contaminates virtually EVERY TOPIC of the Bible, right upto an understanding of the period of "a thousand years" of what that is about, and when.

I can easily relate that error of one having an Eternal soul to Gen. 3[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 So then, if we don't learn the Truth in the beginning, but then foist a LIE right at the beginning, our understanding of what a soul is, will carry over right into the book of Revelation, contaminating ALL interpretations along the way.

I never said the sons of God / humankind were given an eternal soul.

Saying I fabricated such a statement is the false accusation that causes such a gulf in this conversation.

I said all that a son of God/humankind consist of is a soul. That is who we are. The soul puts on either a body of death or a body of life. So the body is not who we are. We are not a spirit either.

 

[Earburner]

I never said the sons of God / humankind were given an eternal soul.

Saying I fabricated such a statement is the false accusation that causes such a gulf in this conversation.

I said all that a son of God/humankind consist of is a soul. That is who we are. The soul puts on either a body of death or a body of life. So the body is not who we are. We are not a spirit either.

Now you are speaking more clearly, that no human being has an eternal soul, nor have they been given an eternal soul. I agree.

Otherwise Gen. 3:22-24 would be as much of a lie, as is Gen. 3:4.
3[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die [suggesting that we, being mere humans, shall not really die].
Gen.3:22-24
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life [lest A&E partake of it, and live forever].

Humankind, since creation, NEVER HAD a soul of Eternal existence of anykind, but rather BECAME a LIVING soul, of which ALL WHO "have NOT the Spirit of Christ" [the Tree of Life], THEY "shalt surely DIE".
John 3:18; Rom. 8:9.

 

[Timtofly]

Humankind, since creation, NEVER HAD a soul of Eternal existence of anykind, but rather BECAME a LIVING soul, of which ALL WHO "have NOT the Spirit of Christ" [the Tree of Life], THEY "shalt surely DIE".
Rom. 8:9.

I have always stated we are the soul, not the body, nor spirit. Then people tend to dictate what I think, instead of what I post.

They did not "become", because you equate that to the tree of life, Jesus. They always were. The term became was for our benefit and understanding as a past action of God. God was never in them, not even the Holy Spirit. The sons of God acted as the literal image of God on an individual level on the earth. Not that they were God, nor even God's robots containing God. Every son of God was each, their own unique individual soul. You seem to still use that word as if they were something different, and then changed.

No one needed to eat from the Tree of Life to maintain that soul.

God is more than just the term Spirit. Also, the soul is eternal as that is who you will be until God says you can no longer exist.

 

[Earburner]

How do you fabricate that man was given an eternal soul, when both the KJV and the Catholic DR bibles say that "man became a living soul"? Gen. 2:7.
The words "given" and "Eternal" are not there.

Edit:
Do you not see "the gulf that is between us", simply by an erroneous interpretation from Gen. 2:7??
If such a critical error in reading the beginning of God's word is allowed, it contaminates virtually EVERY TOPIC of the Bible, right upto an understanding of the period of "a thousand years" of what that is about, and when.

I can easily relate that error of one having an Eternal soul to Gen. 3[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 So then, if we don't learn the Truth in the beginning, but then foist a LIE right at the beginning, our understanding of what a soul is, will carry over right into the book of Revelation, contaminating ALL interpretations along the way.

I have always stated we are the soul, not the body, nor spirit. Then people tend to dictate what I think, instead of what I post.

They did not "become", because you equate that to the tree of life, Jesus. They always were. The term became was for our benefit and understanding as a past action of God. God was never in them, not even the Holy Spirit. The sons of God acted as the literal image of God on an individual level on the earth. Not that they were God, nor even God's robots containing God. Every son of God was each, their own unique individual soul. You seem to still use that word as if they were something different, and then changed.

No one needed to eat from the Tree of Life to maintain that soul.

God is more than just the term Spirit. Also, the soul is eternal as that is who you will be until God says you can no longer exist.

But NOW you are back to your misunderstanding STILL, by refusing to understand HOW Adam BECAME a [mortal] living soul, IN INNOCENCE, which is to be VOID of "the knowledge of both good and evil".

 

[Timtofly]

But NOW you are back to your misunderstanding STILL, by refusing to understand HOW Adam BECAME a [mortal] living soul, IN INNOCENCE, which is to be VOID of "the knowledge of both good and evil".

What does knowledge have to do with how a body is formed?

Not knowing what death is, is ignorance, not innocence.

Innocence: the state, quality, or fact of being innocent of a crime or offense.

Adam was not innocent, because the law said not to eat. Lack of understanding something that only God knew was exactly how Adam was created. Adam never needed to have that knowledge to live thousands of years and have billions of offspring.

Don't you think some of Adam's offspring would want to actually leave the Garden and explore the rest of the earth, to meet with the other sons of God?

 

[Earburner]

.

What does knowledge have to do with how a body is formed?

It's not about the general knowledge of the natural world that God created. It's about the knowledge of good and evil that God was concerned about.

Knowing in advance, that A&E were going to have to exercise their free will apart from God Himself, they were made aware that there were other beings in the garden that they would meet up with, namely Jesus and Satan, who are symbolized as:
1. Jesus- "The tree of life".
Of THAT tree, they were told they could eat of it.
(According to Gen. 3:22-24), it is readily apparent that the "ToL" was the ONLY tree that provided the Gift of Eternal Life. There would have been no fear WITHIN A&E of having to mortally DIE at all. Unfortunately, A&E NEVER ATE OF IT. For if they had, the ToG&E would have been barred from them, by the literal Spirit of Christ, who then would have been dwelling within them.

2. Satan- "The tree of the knowledge of good and evil".
Of THAT tree, they were warned to not eat of it, and if they did, they would surely DIE.
(According to Gen. 3:22-24), it is readily apparent that the "ToG&E" was the only tree that made void the Gift eternal Life, thereby allowing A&E only the length of mortal life, by their natural ability to breathe Oxygenated AIR, aka "the breath of life").

Not knowing what death is, is ignorance, not innocence.

For comparison, that is a wrong application.
A&E were created with innocence of MIND, having NO knowledge of evil or good. I am sure they knew what death was. They had to tend and take care of the garden.

Innocence: the state, quality, or fact of being innocent of a crime or offense.

Again, wrong comparison of application. A&E were created having innocence of mind.

Adam was not innocent, because the law said not to eat. Lack of understanding something that only God knew was exactly how Adam was created. Adam never needed to have that knowledge to live thousands of years and have billions of offspring.

They were innocent. They didn't have the knowledge or ability to discern what was good or evil, because they didn't have the KoG&E in their created beings in the first place.

Don't you think some of Adam's offspring would want to actually leave the Garden and explore the rest of the earth, to meet with the other sons of God?

I suppose that we could speculate on that all day long. It could be and might've been that if A&E had partaken of The "ToL" first, they would've been the ONLY two Eternal beings of human kind. Eternal beings can't and don't pro-create.

 

[Timtofly]

I suppose that we could speculate on that all day long. It could be and might've been that if A&E had partaken of The "ToL" first, they would've been the ONLY two Eternal beings of human kind. Eternal beings can't and don't pro-create.

All the sons of God created on the 6th day are still alive in heaven. Adam and Eve were the only ones who disobeyed God. All the sons of God are humankind.

 

[Earburner]

All the sons of God created on the 6th day are still alive in heaven. Adam and Eve were the only ones who disobeyed God. All the sons of God are humankind.

Some how, you are going to have to provide the scripture(s) to show the numbers that you are suggesting of other humans that were in the world on the sixth day.

 

[Timtofly]

Some how, you are going to have to provide the scripture(s) to show the numbers that you are suggesting of other humans that were in the world on the sixth day.

Right there in Genesis 1. Plural sons of God.

Job 1 plural sons of God, not just one singular son of God. Job 38:7

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Plural from the very beginning. Genesis 6:4 states the sons of God from old, men of renown, plural.

"the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Them is plural, not one singular person. All Mankind male and female, them, were many plural sons of God.

 

[Earburner]

Right there in Genesis 1. Plural sons of God.

Gen. 5:1-32 provides the length of time from the CREATION of Adam and Eve (in 24 hours), right up to Noah and his three sons, as being the pro-created generations that came from the "SEED" of Adam, in the course of 1,656+/- years prior to the Flood.

All of such, being of Adam's world, were considered by God to be the MORTAL "sons of God", from the 6th day (of 24 hours) in His Creation of Adam and Eve, being of THAT world before its destruction by the Flood. Adam himself died naturally, 756 years before the Flood.

So yes, after 1,656+/- years, the people that were pro-created from Adam's SEED, had multiplied exponentially on the face of the earth.

Job 1 plural sons of God, not just one singular son of God. Job 38:7
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Job 38
Or who laid the corner stone [Jesus] thereof;
[7] When the "morning stars" (All the angels, in "blazing" glory) sang together, and all the sons (angels) of God shouted for joy?
Only these are they, who were called "Elohim"

Plural from the very beginning. Genesis 6:4 states the sons of God from old, men of renown, plural.
"the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

AFTER the literal Creation of Adam and Eve, men began to multiply on the face of the earth, by being pro-created through the "SEED" of Adam.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
Them is plural, not one singular person. All Mankind male and female, them, were many plural sons of God.

Sorry, that plural of God's literal Creation of "man" was only those TWO, being singularly Adam and singularly Eve.
Therefore all others, who were pro-created through mortal flesh by them and after them, were collectively called "Adam".
Gen. 5
[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and [God] called their name Adam, in the day [24 hours] when they were created.
IT WAS Adam who named his wife "Eve", and NOT God.
Gen. 3
[20] And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

 

[Timtofly]

Gen. 5:1-32 provides the length of time from the CREATION of Adam and Eve (in 24 hours), right up to Noah and his three sons, as being the pro-created generations that came from the "SEED" of Adam, in the course of 1,656+/- years prior to the Flood.

All of such, being of Adam's world, were considered by God to be the MORTAL "sons of God", from the 6th day (of 24 hours) in His Creation of Adam and Eve, being of THAT world before its destruction by the Flood. Adam himself died naturally, 756 years before the Flood.

So yes, after 1,656+/- years, the people that were pro-created from Adam's SEED, had multiplied exponentially on the face of the earth.

Job 38
Or who laid the corner stone [Jesus] thereof;
[7] When the "morning stars" (All the angels, in "blazing" glory) sang together, and all the sons (angels) of God shouted for joy?
Only these are they, who were called "Elohim"

AFTER the literal Creation of Adam and Eve, men began to multiply on the face of the earth, by being pro-created through the "SEED" of Adam.

Sorry, that plural of God's literal Creation of "man" was only those TWO, being singularly Adam and singularly Eve.
Therefore all others, who were pro-created through mortal flesh by them and after them, were collectively called "Adam".
Gen. 5
[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and [God] called their name Adam, in the day [24 hours] when they were created.
IT WAS Adam who named his wife "Eve", and NOT God.
Gen. 3
[20] And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Eve was not created on the 6th day, in a 24 hour period. Genesis 5, does not say that at all.

Eve was not created at the same time as Adam. Eve was taken out of Adam, months after the Sabbath was over. The Garden was planted after the Sabbath was over.

All the sons of God were named adamkind. That was their name, not who they descended from.

Adam named all the animals. He did not give each one an individual name. All cats were cats. All dogs were dogs. God named all the sons of God, Adam.

When Adam disobeyed God, the term Adamkind was passed onto all those born in dead corruptible bodies. The sons of God remained as sons of God, not sharing in that corruption. Until they had offspring with Adam's offspring, a thousand years later, many generations removed, after Adam and Eve left the Garden ofEden, and the result was not the removal of corruption. The offspring took on the corruption of Adam's dead flesh, and things went from good to bad to complete wickedness generation after generation for 500 years. The Flood did happen about 1500 years after Adam disobeyed God. Seth was born a hundred years after Adam and Eve left the Garden. It was not until Noah's generation, that the sons of God took notice of Adam and Eve's offspring. Adam and Eve had already been in their graves at that point.

Sons of God would never age, nor grow old. The 130 years represents time just before and after Adam disobeyed God, and physically died. Adam lived almost 930 years as a sinner. Probably 900 years as a sinner, and 30 years before he disobeyed God. Because Jesus was around 30 years of age when He obeyed God, and was baptized to start His earthly ministry as the Messiah. So 30 years had passed in the Garden, and Satan tempted Eve, just like he did Jesus 30 years after Jesus' birth.

Eve was taken out of Adam also during those 130 years. Adam did not name all the animals in 30 seconds, nor 30 hours, nor even in 30 days. We are not told how long it took to do that task. It could have taken 42 months. But Adam finished that task prior to Eve being formed.

So Adam was just one son of God. The rest of the sons of God were not placed in the Garden. They did live throughout the earth as God told them to do. Adam was not the only son of God created on the 6th day.

God named the sons of God, Adam, in the process of Adam naming the animals. That did not happen until after the Sabbath, and after God planted the Garden of Eden, after the Sabbath. Why would Adam ever be alone if Eve was created, not taken out of Adam on the 6th day? Eve would have never been taken out of Adam at all, but would have already existed prior to the Sabbath. Genesis 2 is not explaining the 6th day. Genesis 2 is explaining an event after the Sabbath, a Day of the Lord, when God did absolutely no creating. The Garden was not in existence until after the Sabbath.

Eve was not the first female, the mother of all the sons of God before the Sabbath. Eve was the mother of all those in a state of death, after Adam disobeyed God, and death and sin entered creation.

 

[Earburner]

Eve was not created on the 6th day, in a 24 hour period. Genesis 5, does not say that at all.

Eve was not created at the same time as Adam. Eve was taken out of Adam, months after the Sabbath was over. The Garden was planted after the Sabbath was over.

All the sons of God were named adamkind. That was their name, not who they descended from.

Adam named all the animals. He did not give each one an individual name. All cats were cats. All dogs were dogs. God named all the sons of God, Adam.

When Adam disobeyed God, the term Adamkind was passed onto all those born in dead corruptible bodies. The sons of God remained as sons of God, not sharing in that corruption. Until they had offspring with Adam's offspring, a thousand years later, many generations removed, after Adam and Eve left the Garden ofEden, and the result was not the removal of corruption. The offspring took on the corruption of Adam's dead flesh, and things went from good to bad to complete wickedness generation after generation for 500 years. The Flood did happen about 1500 years after Adam disobeyed God. Seth was born a hundred years after Adam and Eve left the Garden. It was not until Noah's generation, that the sons of God took notice of Adam and Eve's offspring. Adam and Eve had already been in their graves at that point.

Sons of God would never age, nor grow old. The 130 years represents time just before and after Adam disobeyed God, and physically died. Adam lived almost 930 years as a sinner. Probably 900 years as a sinner, and 30 years before he disobeyed God. Because Jesus was around 30 years of age when He obeyed God, and was baptized to start His earthly ministry as the Messiah. So 30 years had passed in the Garden, and Satan tempted Eve, just like he did Jesus 30 years after Jesus' birth.

Eve was taken out of Adam also during those 130 years. Adam did not name all the animals in 30 seconds, nor 30 hours, nor even in 30 days. We are not told how long it took to do that task. It could have taken 42 months. But Adam finished that task prior to Eve being formed.

So Adam was just one son of God. The rest of the sons of God were not placed in the Garden. They did live throughout the earth as God told them to do. Adam was not the only son of God created on the 6th day.

God named the sons of God, Adam, in the process of Adam naming the animals. That did not happen until after the Sabbath, and after God planted the Garden of Eden, after the Sabbath. Why would Adam ever be alone if Eve was created, not taken out of Adam on the 6th day? Eve would have never been taken out of Adam at all, but would have already existed prior to the Sabbath. Genesis 2 is not explaining the 6th day. Genesis 2 is explaining an event after the Sabbath, a Day of the Lord, when God did absolutely no creating. The Garden was not in existence until after the Sabbath.

Eve was not the first female, the mother of all the sons of God before the Sabbath. Eve was the mother of all those in a state of death, after Adam disobeyed God, and death and sin entered creation.

Are you thinking that I should believe that God continued creating on whatever day after the 6th day (but rested on the 7th day)??
KJV Gen. 1
[23] And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; MALE and FEMALE created he THEM.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
[30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

You'll hear no apologies from me! I don't follow or believe anything of The Talmud, The Mishna, Jewish folklore, or Kabbalah.

Have you read all of 1 Cor. Ch. 2 yet??
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [the Holy Spirit] of God.

 

[ewq1938]

Are you thinking that I should believe that God continued creating on whatever day after the 6th day (but rested on the 7th day)??

Naturally after the Sabbath would work continue. Jesus spoke of this and said God's work was even done on the Sabbath.

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

 

[Timtofly]

Are you thinking that I should believe that God continued creating on whatever day after the 6th day (but rested on the 7th day)??

You can understand Genesis 2, or just take human understanding and theology, and make Genesis 2 say whatever you all want Genesis 2 to say.

 

[Earburner]

In t

Naturally after the Sabbath would work continue. Jesus spoke of this and said God's work was even done on the Sabbath.

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

Nowhere does it say that God created anything or anyone else on any days after the 7th day. However, let's NOT forget that their long lengths of lifespans were possible of upto 930 years old, thus having a vast opportunity to pro-create at will.

After A&E were booted from the Garden, Cain became their 1st born son, then soon after followed their 2nd son, Abel. Gen. 3:23-24, 4:1-3.
Because the birth of "daughters" is never mentioned, "in the process of time" (Gen. 4:3), there must've been pro-creation still taking place between Adam and Eve, bearing alot of daughters for 130 years, before the mentioning of their 3rd son Seth being born. Gen. 4:25.
So, in all reality, A&E had ONLY THREE SONS, but most likely, within that 130 years, A&E (and kin) had MANY daughters, who are never individually mentioned.

Edit:
The fact that Adam lived a total of 930 years, and only had 3 sons, is mind boggling. But then again, it stands to reason at THAT time, the more women there were, the faster the population could multiply.
Gen. 5
[4] And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat [only three] sons and daughters [how many, is unknown]:


But, "in the process of time" (Gen. 4:3) let's not forget that Cain moved to Nod and knew his wife (a daughter of A&E??) who most likely went with him to Nod, thus bearing children apart from them dwelling with A&E, and did build a city Gen. 4:16-17

To say that Cain, the first born of A&E, took a wife, is to spectulate that one of three things happened:
1. A&E were not the only man and woman created by God, being that there were numerous Adams and Eves.
2. Pro-creation took place within the immediate family and kin.of A&E, thus the beginning of populating the earth.
3. God created A&E separately, apart from another creation, that had been already populating the earth outside of the Garden.

I for one, having shown my explanation, do select item #2, as being the most realistic speculation of how the world began to be populated.

Edit:
I might add that the conscience of people in that Era/Age, men and women weren't offended of WHY or WHO they had sex with, for the increase of population.
Gen. 19:29-38.

 

[ewq1938]

In t

Nowhere does it say that God created anything or anyone else on any days after the 7th day.

Except the 2nd chapter of Genesis which shows what God created after resting.

 

[Earburner]

Except the 2nd chapter of Genesis which shows what God created after resting.

What do you hope to prove in ch. 2 that wasn't already created by God in ch. 1.
Ch. 2 only reveals how God existed in the midst of all that He created, moving in and around the existing "furniture".

 

[Timtofly]

Nowhere does it say that God created anything or anyone else on any days after the 7th day. However, let's NOT forget that their long lengths of lifespans were possible of upto 930 years old, thus having a vast opportunity to pro-create at will.

Yes, we are nearing speculation. But this is just wrong bias and approach to your opinion and speculation.

In Genesis 2, God specifically states that the Garden was planted after the Day of the Lord. Genesis 2 is the first mention, so first principle, concerning the Day of the Lord; and even if we are not told the length of the Day of the Lord. Without knowing the concept of the Day of the Lord, one will continue to incorrectly interpret the entire chapter of Genesis 2.

The general consensus and presupposition is that Genesis 2 is just a retelling of chapter 1, or a recap, or just a different angle with a second creation account. That presupposition is totally wrong.

Here is the thing about people claiming Revelation is not chronological. They then make up their own chronological order. The first 5 chapters of Genesis is a similar portrait of creation. Either one strictly interprets Genesis 1-5 as strictly chronological, or they can view this Scripture as seperate viewpoints only slightly interconnected.

I for one think Revelation is strictly chronological, but Genesis 1-5 are not strictly chronological. Nor is Genesis 2 a recounting of Genesis 1 in reverse order, as some will point out.

The Sabbath is not even mentioned in chapter 1. It is just assumed the 7th day is chronologically the Sabbath. But the second chapter does take off where the first one ends. If the second chapter is chronological, it cannot be a recap of the first chapter at the same time.

Until one can get the relationship between Genesis 1 and 2 worked out, nothing else will even make sense in the other 3 chapters.

And Methuselah lived 969 years. Genesis 5:27

"And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died."

Methuselah died the year of the Flood. We can only speculate why he did not get on the ark and live even longer. Was he punished by God to not live any longer?

After A&E were booted from the Garden, Cain became their 1st born son, then soon after followed their 2nd son, Abel. Gen. 3:23-24, 4:1-3.
Because the birth of "daughters" is never mentioned, "in the process of time" (Gen. 4:3), there must've been pro-creation still taking place between Adam and Eve, bearing alot of daughters for 130 years, before the mentioning of their 3rd son Seth being born. Gen. 4:25.
So, in all reality, A&E had ONLY THREE SONS, but most likely, within that 130 years, A&E (and kin) had MANY daughters, who are never individually mentioned.
Gen. 5
[4] And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat [only three] sons and daughters [how many, is unknown]:


But, "in the process of time" (Gen. 4:3) let's not forget that Cain moved to Nod and knew his wife (a daughter of A&E??) who most likely went with him to Nod, thus bearing children apart from them dwelling with A&E, and did build a city Gen. 4:16-17

Cain was born. It would have been 30 or 40 years before he would even leave "home", if you consider that was the age of Isaac, and his sons. Just look at the length of time before a son was born and the father was born. I don't see how you think people got married at 18 or 20 years of age, and had 12 kids in 15 years, like today's modern procreation process. It took Jacob 4 wives to have 12 sons.

I don't think Cain and Abel were born post sin. Think about it? How would God have a relationship with them, if they were sinners and banned from the Garden of Eden. It was not like after they were born, they could enter the Garden and just strike up a relationship with God. Not one of Adam's descendants post his disobedience, had a relationship with God, after Adam was banned. Read this point here: Genesis 4:26

"And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord."

Adam could not call upon the name of the Lord. Seth could not. It was not until Enos was born, and then Enos could call upon the name of the Lord. You have an impossible situation if Cain and Abel were born between being cast out of the Garden, and the birth of Enos. Cain and Abel would not have been unable to bring any sacrifice to God, outside of the Garden, and could not even call upon the name of the Lord, unless they were without sin, and still in the Garden of Eden. Think of the Garden, as His tabernacle on earth prior to mount Sinai, and the Law. That is where God set up the first alter, and made clothes for Adam and Eve.

Cain and Abel were old enough and left in the Garden , at the point Adam and Eve were cast out. Then Cain was also cast out of the Garden when he killed Abel. And there were way more sons of God across the earth, that Cain married one of them, not a sister that would be born after Seth. My theory would be that Adam and Eve were on probation for 100 years, and could not have any children. Cain could have been in the Garden for a majority of those years, until he was around 100. Isaiah 65 points out that at 100 from God's perspective one is still a child, and not quite mature. Cain rebelled sometime before a hundred, because he could never get over his jealous youthful thoughts. When Abel did die, it was close to the end of those 130 years when Seth was born. Also Abel could leave and visit Adam and Eve. They could not enter the Garden and visit Abel.

To say that Cain, the first born of A&E, took a wife, is to spectulate that one of three things happened:
1. A&E were not the only man and woman created by God, being that there were numerous Adams and Eves.
2. Pro-creation took place within the immediate family and kin.of A&E, thus the beginning of populating the earth.
3. God created A&E separately, apart from another creation, that had been already populating the earth outside of the Garden.

I for one, having shown my explanation, do select item #2, as being the most realistic speculation of how the world began to be populated.

The world was populated during the Day of the Lord by the sons of God, before sin even entered. Even generations, plural, took place. It states it right there in Genesis 2:3-4

"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens."

This is the Lord God viewing time from His perspective including the 6 literal days of creation, as a Day of the Lord, while all living things spread across the earth to fill and subdue the earth, just like the time frame at the end, when Jesus reigns physically on the earth.

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

That all literally happened during the Sabbath Day of the Lord. The sons of God spread out and filled and subdued the earth, because that was the purpose of creation. That all happened before God planted a Garden and put one son of God, in that Garden, whom God name Adam in the process of Adam naming all the animals.

"And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man (no name) should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam (God named the man) to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all."

I don't think Adam was created nor all these animals seperate from the 6th day. I think they all were put into the Garden that was planted after the Sabbath Day of the Lord. The Garden was not created. The Garden was planted after the sons of God had already subdued the rest of the earth. Now God is setting up His place of worship on the the earth and Adam was the first priest of Paradise.

Adam, in the Garden, would have been the only church placed on earth to come too. Since Adam disobeyed, God waited until Israel had to be called out of Egypt, to set up the second tabernacle on earth.

 

[Earburner]

Yes, we are nearing speculation. But this is just wrong bias and approach to your opinion and speculation.

In Genesis 2, God specifically states that the Garden was planted after the Day of the Lord. Genesis 2 is the first mention, so first principle, concerning the Day of the Lord; and even if we are not told the length of the Day of the Lord. Without knowing the concept of the Day of the Lord, one will continue to incorrectly interpret the entire chapter of Genesis 2.

The general consensus and presupposition is that Genesis 2 is just a retelling of chapter 1, or a recap, or just a different angle with a second creation account. That presupposition is totally wrong.

Here is the thing about people claiming Revelation is not chronological. They then make up their own chronological order. The first 5 chapters of Genesis is a similar portrait of creation. Either one strictly interprets Genesis 1-5 as strictly chronological, or they can view this Scripture as seperate viewpoints only slightly interconnected.

I for one think Revelation is strictly chronological, but Genesis 1-5 are not strictly chronological. Nor is Genesis 2 a recounting of Genesis 1 in reverse order, as some will point out.

The Sabbath is not even mentioned in chapter 1. It is just assumed the 7th day is chronologically the Sabbath. But the second chapter does take off where the first one ends. If the second chapter is chronological, it cannot be a recap of the first chapter at the same time.

Until one can get the relationship between Genesis 1 and 2 worked out, nothing else will even make sense in the other 3 chapters.

And Methuselah lived 969 years. Genesis 5:27

"And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died."

Methuselah died the year of the Flood. We can only speculate why he did not get on the ark and live even longer. Was he punished by God to not live any longer?



Cain was born. It would have been 30 or 40 years before he would even leave "home", if you consider that was the age of Isaac, and his sons. Just look at the length of time before a son was born and the father was born. I don't see how you think people got married at 18 or 20 years of age, and had 12 kids in 15 years, like today's modern procreation process. It took Jacob 4 wives to have 12 sons.

I don't think Cain and Abel were born post sin. Think about it? How would God have a relationship with them, if they were sinners and banned from the Garden of Eden. It was not like after they were born, they could enter the Garden and just strike up a relationship with God. Not one of Adam's descendants post his disobedience, had a relationship with God, after Adam was banned. Read this point here: Genesis 4:26

"And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord."

Adam could not call upon the name of the Lord. Seth could not. It was not until Enos was born, and then Enos could call upon the name of the Lord. You have an impossible situation if Cain and Abel were born between being cast out of the Garden, and the birth of Enos. Cain and Abel would not have been unable to bring any sacrifice to God, outside of the Garden, and could not even call upon the name of the Lord, unless they were without sin, and still in the Garden of Eden. Think of the Garden, as His tabernacle on earth prior to mount Sinai, and the Law. That is where God set up the first alter, and made clothes for Adam and Eve.

Cain and Abel were old enough and left in the Garden , at the point Adam and Eve were cast out. Then Cain was also cast out of the Garden when he killed Abel. And there were way more sons of God across the earth, that Cain married one of them, not a sister that would be born after Seth. My theory would be that Adam and Eve were on probation for 100 years, and could not have any children. Cain could have been in the Garden for a majority of those years, until he was around 100. Isaiah 65 points out that at 100 from God's perspective one is still a child, and not quite mature. Cain rebelled sometime before a hundred, because he could never get over his jealous youthful thoughts. When Abel did die, it was close to the end of those 130 years when Seth was born. Also Abel could leave and visit Adam and Eve. They could not enter the Garden and visit Abel.



The world was populated during the Day of the Lord by the sons of God, before sin even entered. Even generations, plural, took place. It states it right there in Genesis 2:3-4

"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens."

This is the Lord God viewing time from His perspective including the 6 literal days of creation, as a Day of the Lord, while all living things spread across the earth to fill and subdue the earth, just like the time frame at the end, when Jesus reigns physically on the earth.

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

That all literally happened during the Sabbath Day of the Lord. The sons of God spread out and filled and subdued the earth, because that was the purpose of creation. That all happened before God planted a Garden and put one son of God, in that Garden, whom God name Adam in the process of Adam naming all the animals.

"And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man (no name) should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam (God named the man) to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all."

I don't think Adam was created nor all these animals seperate from the 6th day. I think they all were put into the Garden that was planted after the Sabbath Day of the Lord. The Garden was not created. The Garden was planted after the sons of God had already subdued the rest of the earth. Now God is setting up His place of worship on the the earth and Adam was the first priest of Paradise.

Adam, in the Garden, would have been the only church placed on earth to come too. Since Adam disobeyed, God waited until Israel had to be called out of Egypt, to set up the second tabernacle on earth.

Scripturally, we are specifically told that no one was ALLOWED in the Garden, and that Cain and Abel were born outside the garden, with the inheritance of sin and death.
Gen. 3
[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him [both A&E] forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Gen. 4
[1] And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
[2] And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
[5] But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Because A&E had been driven out of the garden, and both Cain and Abel were born outside of the garden, after the fact, it is evident that both Cain and Abel were accustomed to a sacrificial service unto the LORD, that took place outside of the garden.

So then, when Cain came under the LORD's punishment for his sin, Cain left the presence of the LORD and his family life, that he had with A&E, while all were outside of the garden. No one was allowed in the garden, lest they partake of the Tree of Life and live forever.

Gen. 4[16] And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
[17] And Cain knew his wife [a daughter of A&E??]; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.