The Amazing Name "Israel" in the Bible

[bbyrd009]

The meaning of the name Israel is not clear, but yet it's huge. The meaning of Israel is not singular and distinct, but consists of many nuances and facets and bulges with theological significance.
The amazing name Israel: meaning and etymology

 

[amadeus]

@bbyrd009
After reading your OP and checking the link briefly I thought I would add here the results of a short study I did related to Israel and Jacob a while back:

Jacob versus Israel
Quite a long time ago now it caught my attention that after Jacob received his new name of Israel, much of the time in scripture he was still addressed by the name Jacob. So I decided to count the number of Jacobs and the number of Israels in scripture [my KJV Bible].

It amazed me that in spite of the change by God, the use of Jacob in the book of Genesis while the man still lived was greater than the use of his new name of Israel.

I counted them again using both my computer program and my hardback Strong's. [The computer is only able in my program to provide a chapter total: no partial chapters.]

Jacob was first mentioned in Gen 25:26. Jacob was last mentioned in Gen 50:24.
Israel was first mentioned in Gen 32:28. Israel was last mentioned in Gen 50:25

The word Jacob was used 181 times in the whole Book of Genesis.

The word Jacob was used 70 times in Gen 32:28 to 50:26 the period of time the new given name was also available.

The word Israel was used 40 times in Gen 32:28 to 50:26.

The word Jacob was used 196 times from Exodus to Revelation.
The word Israel was used 2533 times from Exodus to Revelation.

The word Jacob was used 377 times in the whole Bible.
The word Israel was used 2576 times in the whole Bible.

The reason I separated Genesis from the rest of the Bible in my counts is that the man, Jacob/Israel died in the context of that Book.

I wondered why that in spite of a seemingly glorious reason for giving the new name, the old name was still used more frequently while the man still lived:

Could it be that God realized that the man in spite of a notable promise of things to come was still so much in his old nature rather than the new throughout most of his life even after receiving the new name? Thus in the inspiration given to the writers, Jacob still was dominant while he drew natural breath, at least until closer to the end. Only after his death did the name of Israel prevail so heavily against Jacob and then most of the time it was referring to a nation rather than a single man.

For us:

How would this relate to what people are or have been since meeting Jesus and/or who have received the gift of the Holy Ghost and what they were prior to such experiences? With regard to Jacob it would seem that even after receiving the new name of Israel, he had some growing to do before the name really was his.

When we met Jesus we are from that point able apparently to get into the Name, but many have to grow a bit before this happens often, and for some they never had good ground so that the seed could take root and grow properly to thirty sixty or one hundred fold...

 

[bbyrd009]

With regard to Jacob it would seem that even after receiving the new name of Israel, he had some growing to do before the name really was his.

hmm. i'd have to marinate on that perspective, might yield some fruit, yes. Another is that multiple, or at least the two prevailing "perspectives" that we might contemplate from is being addressed, but that is just a way to restate your premise here i guess?

 

[amadeus]

hmm. i'd have to marinate on that perspective, might yield some fruit, yes. Another is that multiple, or at least the two prevailing "perspectives" that we might contemplate from is being addressed, but that is just a way to restate your premise here i guess?

Of course one thing that immediately has come to my mind on it, is the stand of believers in OSAS. They basically take their view from the NT. As a person continues to study/read NT and OT there are many things that for me weighs against their point of view. The key word for me is growth, but growth is not to occur only as a afterthought to salvation but as a part of it. We don't just instantaneously receive what we've always wanted, but we must continue to strive for it.

God knew His plan for Jacob, but Jacob really had to move away from being a supplanting, deceiving heelcatcher. He wanted to do it and eventually, by the time we seeing at the end of the book of Genesis we are starting to see it. Was Jabob saved that first time he met with God and made promises? I think not. Lots of people make promise. What reward should they be given for the promises? The work was still be done.

Jesus spoke of bring Life, but there really was no Life a person could sink his teeth into until both His Body and His Blood were available to be consumed. A lot of people say the right words with the right purpose, but when it comes done to it they never partake of Him along their road as they should.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus spoke of bring Life, but there really was no Life a person could sink his teeth into until both His Body and His Blood were available to be consumed.

hmm, i am able to read "love your neighbor" OT as well as NT though; so i dunno; i am of the opinion that Christ just manifested what was already taught OT

 

[amadeus]

hmm, i am able to read "love your neighbor" OT as well as NT though; so i dunno; i am of the opinion that Christ just manifested what was already taught OT

My point I guess in mentioning the OT as well as the NT is the messages from God are repeated in both places usually many more than two times. I keep trying to seek His messages whether they agree with what I previously thought or not. Each time He shows me a new [to me] place with the message it should reinforce me if I was already right. If I was wrong it gives me a new reason to go back and start from the lowest room one more time...

"But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Luke 14:10-11

 

[Helen]

I have not read any posts between the OP and the last post...I will do that after this.
I read the link. ( I don't like links much so that was rare for me. :) )

I checked others too...
Israel..from the Hebrew name יִשְׂרָאֵל (Yisra'el) meaning "God contended".
ie from the Old Testament Israel ( formerly Jacob) wrestles with an angel.
Another search came up with the meaning as "Who prevails with God."
I think I like that one better, I like the 'with God' bit...together rather than against.
Jacob doesn't have 'God' in his name ...but Israel has God's name added in=EL .
As in ELOHIM ...Elohim = God Creator
ELSHADDAI Elshaddai = God Almighty..(mighty one of Jacob) Psalm 132:2
EL-GIBHOR Elgibhor = Mighty God ..Isaiah 9:6
EL-OLAM Elolam = Everlasting God. Psalm 90:1-3 ....etc etc...

Fun thread :)

 

[Helen]

@amadeus Good study. I liked your idea that once Jacob was called Israel he still had to "grow into the name." Is that not what we are all doing after being placed into Christ...we have not 'arrived' we still have a growing to do until the suit fits!!
I know bbyrd009 dislikes the word Christian...and with good cause... no doubt it is because not many of us that carry that name have grown into it...ie "wear it well" ...but are still in need of milk and not meat.
As Paul remonstrated..." Ye are yet carnal.."
Woe is me...

 

[amadeus]

@amadeus Good study. I liked your idea that once Jacob was called Israel he still had to "grow into the name." Is that not what we are all doing after being placed into Christ...we have not 'arrived' we still have a growing to do until the suit fits!!
I know bbyrd009 dislikes the word Christian...and with good cause... no doubt it is because not many of us that carry that name have grown into it...ie "used it well" ...but are still in need of milk and not meat.
As Paul remonstrated..." Ye are yet carnal.."
Woe is me...

I also have long had a problem with many people using the word, Christian, for themselves, when from what I have seen they bear no resemblance whatever to the Jesus I have come to know.

 

[mjrhealth]

I also have long had a problem with many people using the word, Christian, for themselves, when from what I have seen they bear no resemblance whatever to the Jesus I have come to know.

Didnt that indian guy say something to the same effect, Ghandi..

 

[Frank Lee]

About names I find it interesting and appalling that many if not most will tell you what denomination they are rather than that they are Christians. They relate to the denomination many times more than to the savior. The sects in Bible says were the same way.

I don't like to think of how many attending denominational churches are not born again Christians. Or how many pastors are unsaved. If you're more pleased with saying you're a Baptist or whatever than being a Christian, a follower of Jesus, then something is very wrong.

After I was saved and just before the Lord came and baptized me me in the Holy Spirit I went to Kentucky Baptist church about 5 miles away to talk with the pastor about spiritual gifts. This old church was like the first Baptist church west of the Mississippi.

The pastor had no encouragement about the biblical gifts and confided in me that he was discouraged in the ministry and was seriously considering going back to selling insurance. I was a stranger so I guess it was easier to confide in me. Looking back I feel sorry for the man. So much for ancient churches or their names.

Nearly every time I witnessed or shared with someone they asked me what denomination I was or which church I went to. What name... I always relate that Jesus came for me and I am a Christian if they want to give me a handle. I'm eternally grateful that Jesus came for me as He did and I feel beholding to no denomination, sect, group or clan.

The op is regarding a name and how Jacob was called. Sadly so many people tend to classify you by the name of your denomination. Religion doesn't know how to classify you if you live and worship outside of the bounds of established denominations.

The disciples made it very confusing for the sanhedrin. They opposed both the Pharisees and the saducees. They had no name except for heretics. Jesus confused them even more by simply speaking the truth.

Most often names tend to stereotype people so we must look deeper than the the tag they're wearing. You and I are followers of Jesus, disciples and children of God, brothers and sisters in Christ. We have many names amen?!

 

[amadeus]

Didnt that indian guy say something to the same effect, Ghandi..

Even so. I cannot quote him, but he said in effect that he was very pleased with Christ. It was Christians who turned him away from Christianity.

 

[bbyrd009]

The op is regarding a name and how Jacob was called.

The amazing name Jacob: meaning and etymology

 

[bbyrd009]

I know bbyrd009 dislikes the word Christian...and with good cause

fwiw i would have no objection if someone else called me a Christian; even if i tend more to Frank's perspective there, iow i see more fruit in not claiming anything that i might not even have attained to yet