The Ambiguity of Belief - What is it?

[Patrick1966]

That's a good point. Believe with the heart. (as opposed to the head only)
Although, I suppose "a stone-cold legalist" could open a Bible and become a MORE confirmed believer in their legalism.
We may have seen this happen?

Someone else mentioned the importance of the OBJECT of belief. That is certainly key.
If we believe in something WORTHY of our belief, and believe with our heart, we are pointed in the right direction.
As ambiguous as that seems on paper.

Perhaps the belief that plays out in a transformed and Christ-like life is the best we can hope for?

cc: @Chadrho

My belief is that I'm a sinful, broken, man who needs Jesus to heal me and to take me to be with him, otherwise, I am just dirt.

The funny thing is that my belief didn't come from the Bible. As a very young boy I just sort of understood that God is real. It wasn't until around 6 years ago that I really delved into the Bible to expand my understanding. Reading the Bible did, however, prove beyond any doubt that God is real. Numerous authors, separated by locations and centuries apart all saying the same thing, could have only come about by the Holy Spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

My belief is that I'm a sinful, broken, man who needs Jesus to heal me and to take me to be with him, otherwise, I am just dirt.

The word "contrite" came to mind while reading your post. Search results below.
The Father values you immensely! Chin up, good fellow; you are a child of the King.
Next time you feel like dirt, say it. "I am a child of the King." (with chin up)

• Psalm 34:18
  The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contritespirit.
  
  
• Psalm 51:17
  The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contriteheart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
  
  
• Isaiah 57:15
  For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contriteones.
  
  
• Isaiah 66:2
  For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

The funny thing is that my belief didn't come from the Bible. As a very young boy I just sort of understood that God is real. It wasn't until around 6 years ago that I really delved into the Bible to expand my understanding. Reading the Bible did, however, prove beyond any doubt that God is real. Numerous authors, separated by locations and centuries apart all saying the same thing, could have only come about by the Holy Spirit.

Great testimony, thanks.
A personal encounter with the divine dispels unbelief.

 

[Patrick1966]

The word "contrite" came to mind while reading your post. Search results below.
The Father values you immensely! Chin up, good fellow; you are a child of the King.
Next time you feel like dirt, say it. "I am a child of the King." (with chin up)

• Psalm 34:18
  The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contritespirit.
  
  
• Psalm 51:17
  The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contriteheart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
  
  
• Isaiah 57:15
  For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contriteones.
  
  
• Isaiah 66:2
  For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Great testimony, thanks.
A personal encounter with the divine dispels unbelief.

Thank you my brother!

 

[St. SteVen]

From the OP.

Are you a believer?
"Well, of course.", you might reply.

If we ask, "What does it mean to be a believer?"
Answers will vary widely, each one emphasizing what is
most important to them. (which is fine)

If salvation is based on belief, then we had better know what it means.
If salvation is NOT based on belief, then it matters less.

The ambiguity of belief. What is it?

=

 

[amigo de christo]

From the OP.

Are you a believer?
"Well, of course.", you might reply.

If we ask, "What does it mean to be a believer?"
Answers will vary widely, each one emphasizing what is
most important to them. (which is fine)

If salvation is based on belief, then we had better know what it means.
If salvation is NOT based on belief, then it matters less.

The ambiguity of belief. What is it?

=

Do you believe math is real .
and yet the problem is when the text book says two plus two equals four
and yet many say , not so fast maybe its five . You tell me what math are they believing in
true math or another kind of math which is contradicting true mathematics of simple addition .
Believe me when i say , many be following another god and another jesus and another gospel .
AND NOT THE ONE that INSPIRED THE BOOK either .
its math , its truths , SEEM TO CONTRADICT the TRUTH found in a certain book .
WHEN GOD said something , ABRAHAM actually BELEIVED IT to BE TRUE , THUS proving it through HIS QUICK
OBEDIANCE to GOD .
Many can cliam to beleive in a god and they do , believe me they do beleive in a god
ITS JUST NOT THE GOD . many within even christendom can claim to believe in THE CHRIST
but it aint THE CHRIST JESUS .
Many within christendom claim to beleive in the gospel and yet sure seem to preach another gospel .
SEE THE PROBLEM YET .
And what do all these have in common , THEY TWIST SOMETHING and do so unto their own destructoin .
Even telling lies like the BIBLE aint accurate , OR BY GOLLY YA GOTTA SIT UNDER OUR SCHOLARS
and yet the one thing these men have in common is , THEY TWISTING and OMITTING what the original CHURCH wrote
what JESUS IN the gospels said . BINGO DUDE . they claim math but their addition DONT ADD UP to what math says
exactly . BIBLE TIME FOLKS . STOP trying to form a god to our own liking that supports and overlooks
our own fleshly desires . LEARN RATHER the TRUTH in scripture FOR YASELVES homies . cause men love to twist stuff
oh boy do they love to twist .

 

[St. SteVen]

Excerpt from the OP.

If we ask, "What does it mean to be a believer?"
Answers will vary widely, each one emphasizing what is
most important to them. (which is fine)

If salvation is based on belief, then we had better know what it means.
If salvation is NOT based on belief, then it matters less.

The ambiguity of belief. What is it?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you a believer?
"Well, of course.", you might reply.

If we ask, "What does it mean to be a believer?"
Answers will vary widely, each one emphasizing what is
most important to them. (which is fine)

If salvation is based on belief, then we had better know what it means.
If salvation is NOT based on belief, then it matters less.

The ambiguity of belief. What is it?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you a believer?
"Well, of course.", you might reply.

If we ask, "What does it mean to be a believer?"
Answers will vary widely, each one emphasizing what is
most important to them. (which is fine)

If salvation is based on belief, then we had better know what it means.
If salvation is NOT based on belief, then it matters less.

The ambiguity of belief. What is it?

James 2:19 NIV
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

[

 

[XtraPercept]

The ambiguity of belief. What is it?

I might have once said, "I believe this to be the case" and yet the expression implies uncertainty! How is it that belief has come to incorporate doubt into its very definition as commonly understood?

It is the beauty of His Word, His words, and how He works!

Meaning is a deep passion my Master has blessed me with and I love to expound for Him! And thus it is my great joy to honor Him in expressing the meaning of "belief" according to His intent for this word.

Belief and faith are not unfounded, uncertain, or unclear. Quite the contrary, with His Certainty, belief and faith are exactly and precisely representative of His certain victory. He is the Author and Foundation of faith, which is belief.

Paul said it as 'faith is the substance of things hoped for' and this is beautifully true but it is not for the 'archaic' nature of the source material that meaning is lost, it is the result of the famine of the word today.

Sub = under, below, the depth, the roots
stance = standing, position, place, footing

Faith is what His servants stand upon, belief is the foundation that He, by His will, installs in those who seek it with all of their hearts! It is the reward for pursuing Him at all costs! He is the Pearl of Great Price! His presence is the greatest treasure imaginable!

No, there is not a drop of doubt in the belief of Truth, should you truly have Him. He is Certainty! It is finished, as He declared, and His prize is presented to us Scripturally. While these words are nonsense to the perishing and often invite scoffers, this has been the case from the beginning and no word of the Lord returns incomplete.

As with every single good and wonderful and delightful thing anyone has, belief is a glorious gift from the Father. And yet it is even better still, for it is the Seal of the Spirit, the Indwelling Promise, our Hope, our Certainty, and our guarantee that in His service, we cannot fail so long as our eyes are on Him.

 

[Stumpmaster]

The ambiguity of belief. What is it?

Cognitive Dissonance. Not something we get from abiding in Christ, as per the Vine analogy of John 15.

 

[XtraPercept]

Cognitive Dissonance. Not something we get from abiding in Christ, as per the Vine analogy of John 15.

Cognitive dissonance is the result which we might call the ambiguity of belief, not the cause. It is what we get for straying from Christ, the Vine, the Source, the Fountain, the Faith. It is the loss of Clarity and Understanding and Truth for the continual rejection thereof in favor of lies.

 

[St. SteVen]

I might have once said, "I believe this to be the case" and yet the expression implies uncertainty! How is it that belief has come to incorporate doubt into its very definition as commonly understood?

Thanks for your post.
I have attempted to address this in a couple of previous topics. Links below.

Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING​

Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything​

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Cognitive Dissonance. Not something we get from abiding in Christ, as per the Vine analogy of John 15.

Cognitive dissonance is the result which we might call the ambiguity of belief, not the cause. It is what we get for straying from Christ, the Vine, the Source, the Fountain, the Faith. It is the loss of Clarity and Understanding and Truth for the continual rejection thereof in favor of lies.

I think we all live with some level of Cognitive Dissonance.
None of us is immune. We need to be aware and honest about it.

We have faith regardless of Cognitive Dissonance.
In fact, it is because we don't know everything that faith is REQUIRED.
Without Cognitive Dissonance there would be no need for faith.

[

 

[Taken]

The Ambiguity of Belief - What is it?

Mysterious!

God: Creator…something from nothing
God: Maker….Gives something to the Created
God: Maker…Gives LIFE to manKIND
God: Maker…Makes manKIND in Gods Likeness.

God: ManKind:
Likeness:
* Body - Body
* Mind - Mind
(Logical ciphering ability - ditto)
* Soul - Soul
(Activates skills for communication;
Eyes, Ears, Nose, Mouth, Tongue, Flesh
See, hear, smell, utterance, taste, touch/feel)
* Spirit - Spirit
(truth in heart)

(differences, yes.)
* Life of ManKinds Body is Blood.
(Begins days after conception / must Die)
* Life of Gods Body is Supreme Holy Power.
(Has no Beginning / nor Ending)
* God IS a Spirit….and HAS 7 Spirits.
* manKIND HAS “A” natural Spirit, (truth)/ born OF a “humans Seed”. Man might or Not be gifted with Gods SEED, to birth a man a New Spirit, With it’s never ending Life, and Fed Gods Truth.

Likenesses:
* God: Numerous Names: Titles: Descriptions
* ManKind: Ditto

The Mystery:
(Regarding God and manKIND)
Names: Titles: Descriptions;
Reveal THE KEY to Appropriations, Appointing, Accounting, Accrediting, Acknowledging, Applicability, Addressing…

Your god…
Your dad…
Your lord…
Your life…
Your words…
Your thoughts…
Your citizenship…
Your truth…
Your works…
Your beliefs…
Etc.
Apply to You…same As Gods’ Applies to God,
And each manKind of human’ applies to him.

Humans May or may Not have Similar applications… but “your” dad will never be “my” dad, nor would I address him “as” you do.
You may be a husband, have children, and be a President of a company, with employees.
Your wife, children, Employees, Would “most likely”…
Address you, with Different, Names: Titles: Descriptions…
“YET, you are ONE man”.
* Each Name: Title: Description, Reveals the KEY to a specific position, role, appointment, application, works,etc. AND Acknowledgement thereof.

The same Applies To the ONE Lord God Almighty.
Numerous Names: Titles: Descriptions: Specific Positions, Roles, Works, etc.

God Transforms, God Saves, LORD Saves, LORD Quickens, Lord Saves, Christ Quickens, LORD raises, Lord raises, LORD gets angry, Lord gets angry, manKind gets angry.

A “Time” for Everything / EveryONE.

Belief… in LORD, IN Lord, IN Almighty, IN Supreme Power, IN Christ…

Not the big mystery men spend hours, years, debating, arguing…(And making up a load of nonsense, in attempts, to satisfy the Carnal (Logical ciphering mind), regarding the ONE Lord God Almighty.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Stumpmaster]

Cognitive dissonance is the result which we might call the ambiguity of belief, not the cause. It is what we get for straying from Christ, the Vine, the Source, the Fountain, the Faith. It is the loss of Clarity and Understanding and Truth for the continual rejection thereof in favor of lies.

Getting The Trinity of Groaning. Romans 8

Creation groans.

We groan

The Holy Spirit groans.

Rom 8:22-26 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. (23) Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. (24) For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? (25) But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. (26) Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

 

[Taken]

… need for faith.

Point of “FAITH”…
Seems you are eluding…the Logical thinking, ciphering, carnal Mind…
(Which I agree)…
Is NOT Equipped, to believe, trust, acquiesce, To Something that makes absolutely “no sense”…

Believe IN something, you cannot see, hear, smell, taste, touch…??
Carnally Illogical.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[XtraPercept]

Thanks for your post.
I have attempted to address this in a couple of previous topics. Links below.

Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING​

Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything​

Thank you! I look forward to participation in these threads.

 

[XtraPercept]

Getting The Trinity of Groaning. Romans 8

My friend, I tell you this with the greatest Love, the notion of a trinity is far too confounding and limiting to appropriately apply to the Master. It has its roots in truth, indeed, but as taught, as understood, as conveyed, it has much falsehood and distorts reality.

As a doctrine, including its source and sisters, the issue has been initially addressed in the following thread:

"The Extortion Gospel - Believe or Burn - Not Really a Choice"

 

[Taken]

My friend, I tell you this with the greatest Love, the notion of a trinity is far too confounding and limiting to appropriately apply to the Master. It has its roots in truth, indeed, but as taught, as understood, as conveyed, it has much falsehood and distorts reality.

As a doctrine, including its source and sisters, the issue has been initially addressed in the following thread:

"The Extortion Gospel - Believe or Burn - Not Really a Choice"

The “supposed” Shield of The Trinity (Faith) sketch, accompanying words…
God is
God is not

I do not like it.

 

[Stumpmaster]

My friend, I tell you this with the greatest Love, the notion of a trinity is far too confounding and limiting to appropriately apply to the Master. It has its roots in truth, indeed, but as taught, as understood, as conveyed, it has much falsehood and distorts reality.

As a doctrine, including its source and sisters, the issue has been initially addressed in the following thread:

"The Extortion Gospel - Believe or Burn - Not Really a Choice"

Many things are trinities. My name is a trinity. Molecular states are a trinity, such as H2O as liquid, solid, and gas. Sun, moon and stars are a trinity. Time is experienced as a trinity of past, present, and future.

A trinity is any group of three closely related entities, often symbolizing balance, completeness, or progression

"Alas, they didn't get the gist, they had a misreading of the list, and for them, the beauteous meaning, the meaning was dismissed."