The Ambiguity of Belief - What is it?

[St. SteVen]

Are you a believer?
"Well, of course.", you might reply.

If we ask, "What does it mean to be a believer?"
Answers will vary widely, each one emphasizing what is
most important to them. (which is fine)

If salvation is based on belief, then we had better know what it means.
If salvation is NOT based on belief, then it matters less.

The ambiguity of belief. What is it?

 

[Enoch111]

The ambiguity of belief. What is it?

There is no such thing. One either believes on the Lord Jesus Christ wholeheartedly for his or her salvation, or one does not. It is cut and dried.

 

[Lambano]

If salvation is based on belief, then we had better know what it means.
If salvation is NOT based on belief, then it matters less.

When reading the scriptures, especially the Pauline and Johannine writings, I see many key passages where the Greek pistis and its cognates would be better translated "trust". The perspective of trusting a Person rather than believing a doctrine about a Person has helped me a lot.

But, I suspect that's not where you're intending to go with this thread, so I'll fade into the woodwork for a while.

 

[Windmillcharge]

The ambiguity of belief. What is it?

Many people believe in the spaghetti monster, other say they believe in God, yet there is no difference in how they live.

If one Believes in Jesus then that believe motivates how one lives, it makes changes.
If it doesn't does one really believe?

 

[St. SteVen]

There is no such thing. One either believes on the Lord Jesus Christ wholeheartedly for his or her salvation, or one does not. It is cut and dried.

Wholeheartedly? That's ambiguous. How are such things measured?

Could you have believed MORE wholeheartedly? (of course)
Was your wholehearted belief sufficient? (who knows?)
Will you have to wait and see if it was enough? (yes)
Can you then rest assured of your salvation? (nope)

 

[St. SteVen]

When reading the scriptures, especially the Pauline and Johannine writings, I see many key passages where the Greek pistis and its cognates would be better translated "trust". The perspective of trusting a Person rather than believing a doctrine about a Person has helped me a lot.

That's a great insight, actually. Thanks.
The promise of salvation is good, because of the trustworthy track record of the giver.
Nothing to do with us and our ambiguous belief.

But, I suspect that's not where you're intending to go with this thread, so I'll fade into the woodwork for a while.

Please join us at whatever level of participation you choose. You are welcome here.

 

[St. SteVen]

Many people believe in the spaghetti monster, other say they believe in God, yet there is no difference in how they live.

Excellent!
It's not the AMOUNT of belief that counts, it's the OBJECT of our belief.
Nothing ambiguous about that. As @Lambano wrote, a matter of trust. Simple trust, I would say.

If one Believes in Jesus then that believe motivates how one lives, it makes changes.
If it doesn't does one really believe?

Yes! The proof is in the pudding.
Our belief REFLECTED in a changed life.
A person BEAMING with the new life we were promised.
You can bank on that!

 

[Enoch111]

Wholeheartedly? That's ambiguous. How are such things measured?

God is the one doing the measuring. Nothing for you to worry about.

 

[St. SteVen]

God is the one doing the measuring. Nothing for you to worry about.

Are you sure?
What if God informs you that your belief wasn't wholehearted enough? Then what?

St. SteVen said:
Wholeheartedly? That's ambiguous. How are such things measured?

 

[Enoch111]

Are you sure? What if God informs you that your belief wasn't wholehearted enough? Then what?

Well you could play these word games all day if you wish. But let's stop wasting time on nonsense.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Are you a believer?
"Well, of course.", you might reply.

If we ask, "What does it mean to be a believer?"
Answers will vary widely, each one emphasizing what is
most important to them. (which is fine)

If salvation is based on belief, then we had better know what it means.

Yes, and this is the best analogy I have encountered:

You are at the airport, looking at the aircraft that soon will be headed for your destination.
In your mind [ intellectually ] you believe it is 'what it looks like' and will "get you" to your
destination, Correct?

So, to get to your destination, what do you have to Actually do? Trust with WHOLE-hearted
belief, and "place your faith [ and your LIFE ] in" the pilots' hands, and "GET on board!!" Amen?

Same way with Christ, Correct? What's ambiguous?

 

[St. SteVen]

God is the one doing the measuring. Nothing for you to worry about.

Well, you are the one that made "wholeheartedly" a requirement. So...

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, and this is the best analogy I have encountered:

You are at the airport, looking at the aircraft that soon will be headed for your destination.
In your mind [ intellectually ] you believe it is 'what it looks like' and will "get you" to your
destination, Correct?

So, to get to your destination, what do you have to Actually do? Trust with WHOLE-hearted
belief, and "place your faith [ and your LIFE ] in" the pilots' hands, and "GET on board!!" Amen?

Same way with Christ, Correct? What's ambiguous?

That's good...
... but why is the seat cushion a flotation device? - LOL

It's an aircraft, not a boat.
What's wrong with this picture?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

That's good...
... but why is the seat cushion a flotation device? - LOL

It's an aircraft, not a boat.
What's wrong with this picture?

Thanks! a 'floatation device' (Bible?) which could be useful for comfort in "the
[ crashing in the ocean ] storms" of life?

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks! a 'floatation device' (Bible?) which could be useful for comfort in "the
[ crashing in the ocean ] storms" of life?

Great reply! Thanks, friend.

 

[Enoch111]

Well, you are the one that made "wholeheartedly" a requirement. So...

No. I am not the one who made that a requirement. God the Holy Spirit made that a requirement in Acts 8:36,37 (and verse 37 has been expunged from all modern versions).

36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Philip was speaking according to what he received from the Holy Spirit.

 

[amigo de christo]

There is no such thing. One either believes on the Lord Jesus Christ wholeheartedly for his or her salvation, or one does not. It is cut and dried.

and belief in any other way or path is futile . Keep pointing to Christ till the final breath my friend .

 

[St. SteVen]

No. I am not the one who made that a requirement. God the Holy Spirit made that a requirement in Acts 8:36,37 (and verse 37 has been expunged from all modern versions).

36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Philip was speaking according to what he received from the Holy Spirit.

Expunged? - LOL
That's a curious word choice. Maybe you meant "sponged", or "removed"?

Doesn't this return us to my questions in posts #5, #9, and #12 ???
And your post below. ???

God is the one doing the measuring. Nothing for you to worry about.

Nothing to worry about?
Your quote at the top of this post reads: "God the Holy Spirit made that a requirement..."
Nothing to worry about? Wow.

Back to the topic questions. How can the ambiguity of "wholeheartedly" be measured?

Could you have believed MORE wholeheartedly? (of course)
Was your wholehearted belief sufficient? (who knows?)
Will you have to wait and see if it was enough? (yes)
Can you then rest assured of your salvation? (nope)

 

[Patrick1966]

As we know, faith is a gift. I think one has to believe with their heart. I don't know that a stone-cold legalist can open the Bible and become a believer.

 

[St. SteVen]

As we know, faith is a gift. I think one has to believe with their heart. I don't know that a stone-cold legalist can open the Bible and become a believer.

That's a good point. Believe with the heart. (as opposed to the head only)
Although, I suppose "a stone-cold legalist" could open a Bible and become a MORE confirmed believer in their legalism.
We may have seen this happen?

Someone else mentioned the importance of the OBJECT of belief. That is certainly key.
If we believe in something WORTHY of our belief, and believe with our heart, we are pointed in the right direction.
As ambiguous as that seems on paper.

Perhaps the belief that plays out in a transformed and Christ-like life is the best we can hope for?

cc: @Chadrho