The answer to 1984 is still 1776

[FollowHim]

This is the kind of IRRESPONSIBLE comment that is totally unhelpful. Where in the world did you get this bizarre figure?

At the present, deaths from Wuhan virus are only 22,030 worldwide.

Out of a total of 487,648 cases worldwide, 117,749 have recovered.

Johns Hopkins University is monitoring this world wide. There are not even half a million confirm cases worldwide.

Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS

327 million population, 1% is 3.27 million, 4% is 12 million +

These are simple numbers and extensions. The theory is by controlling the spread to a slow rate, then the medical system can reduce the impact. The reality is the spread will happen, just how quickly and how we will react.

All the models say we cannot stop the process, but even out how it spreads and look for solutions while we buy time.
These numbers are why the world is moving toward lock down, any intellectual person understands this.

What is irresponsible is not to understand the science and why we are all in this together.

 

[Josho]

Well there are an average of 3,287 deaths per day from CAR ACCIDENTS world wide.
100+ Car Accident Statistics for 2019

So in one week there are more car accident deaths worldwide than COVID-19 deaths over three months!

Let's not try to make this into a matter of mass hysteria (which the media just love).

22k is 25x more people than my town population. But now the number of deaths has risen to 23700. My point is it may not be a lot of people to you, but it's a lot to me. And 23700 is with "extreme" preventive measures, remove all those restrictions, and that number will skyrocket and rush to a million, it's already evident that it's a fast spreading virus. When there is influenza there aren't that many restrictions obviously, and unlike flu, covid-19 is a respiratory disease.

Is the media to blame for spreading too much panic? Largely so, I would agree with you on that.

But the health authorities are treating this very very seriously, more seriously than the flu, the health experts know more about Covid-19 than you and me, and they are passing on advice to the government on what restrictive measures should be put in place to lessen the spread as much they can.

It's no hoax.

 

[Enoch111]

327 million population, 1% is 3.27 million, 4% is 12 million +

You continue to throw out these numbers as if they mean anything. Even the worldwide confirmed cases are about HALF A MILLION right now. And there are about 7.8 billion people in this world. And then if you take the number of recoveries, those number drop even more. So do the math, and stop your fear-mongering.

Now the man who created a panic at the Imperial College in England is backtracking and saying "Sorry, I was mistaken".

Imperial College scientist who predicted 500K coronavirus deaths in UK revises to 20K or fewer ("could be much lower")

Imperial College scientist who predicted 500K coronavirus deaths in UK revises to 20K or fewer

And even that may be too high, since that 20K figure is presently worldwide.

 

[rockytopva]

A serif font, such as the one on the left should only be used in headings, if that.
A San-serif font, such as the one on the right, is minus all those decorations, and greatly improves readability, and makes for a nicer styled sentence.

 

[FollowHim]

You continue to throw out these numbers as if they mean anything. Even the worldwide confirmed cases are about HALF A MILLION right now. And there are about 7.8 billion people in this world. And then if you take the number of recoveries, those number drop even more. So do the math, and stop your fear-mongering.

Now the man who created a panic at the Imperial College in England is backtracking and saying "Sorry, I was mistaken".

Imperial College scientist who predicted 500K coronavirus deaths in UK revises to 20K or fewer ("could be much lower")

Imperial College scientist who predicted 500K coronavirus deaths in UK revises to 20K or fewer

And even that may be too high, since that 20K figure is presently worldwide.

The point of projections is to empower change. I am not throwing numbers, I am simply showing what the % mean.

It is why authorities are doing what they are doing. Sadly the virus is not that bad, so when a worse one comes, how will we respond?

In a sense medicine has conquered a short life, but when this is challenged we are not sure what to do.

Take cancer and believing it is a test of faith, rather than being called home?

Or living in Africa where isolation means starvation, so what will be will be. I truly fear for my loved ones, and know the pain this could cause.

So yes the numbers matter and justify the social action. In 6 weeks we will know what is our peak or delayed peak.
As the US passes China, reality will strike home. A call to prayer, trust and patience. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

The basis of this thread was to suggest quarantine was not justified, except the Imperial College new projection now suggests these measures will actually deliver life saving outcomes. Amen

By accepting this as true this accepts the quarantine is justified and not breaking the constitution of anywhere but is appropriate.

So thank you for answering the question, God bless you.

 

[charity]

You may be interested in two links, which my grandson sent to me. They are not written from a Christian standpoint, but at least give two more perspectives to view this pandemic situation from.

Covid-19 is nature's wake-up call to complacent civilisation | George Monbiot
Fear of Covid-19 is a mental contagion – and that's something we can fight

Keep praising God, and keep safe.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Chris

 

[Renniks]

It only makes sense that if you can get the virus without knowing it or having symptoms that many thousands people are infected they don't even know it. This would put the actual death rate per case way lower than is reported. I don't know all the answers but it does concern me, how easily our basic rights can be cast aside in a situation like this. With the wrong leaders it's a recipe for a totalitarian government.

 

[Enoch111]

With the wrong leaders it's a recipe for a totalitarian government.

And if Mr. Trump is not careful, that could be the end result. The governors in some states are already showing their totalitarian streaks. Some are forbidding the use of anti-malarial drugs, even though they work. That is none of their business.

There should have been a very carefully thought out comprehensive plan in the White House to address every aspect of the issue, rather than ad hoc decisions on a daily basis. After that there should have been a proper Executive Order to ensure that there were no violations of the Constitution at the local, state, or federal levels, and shut downs were carefully executed.

 

[Nancy]

I AM AN AMERICAN CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER – AND I SEE OUR GOVERNMENT USING COVID-19 TO TAKE AWAY OUR FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS

The answer to 1984 is still 1776.
MARCH 23, 2020

Do we really think “it can’t happen here” in America? Could we quarantine the constitution? Are we doing it already?

Panics from pandemics unleash unchecked governmental power. The very premise of popular films like V for Vendetta reveal this: a group uses a virus to seize power and create a totalitarian society. Anyone could witness this from far-off lands, watching the news about China locking people up in their own homes and then removing them screaming from those homes whenever the state wanted. World War I and the Great Depression birthed virulent forms of governments with leaders like Hitler, Mao, Mussolini and Stalin.

The real pandemic threat is here. It’s the panic that will quarantine our Constitution.

FIRST AMENDMENT QUARANTINED?
Already, governments in America suspended the First Amendment freedom of millions of citizens with shutdown, stay-at-home, curfew orders that prohibit obtaining a petition for a public protest, or even being physically present for a public protest. Indeed, even meetings in “more than ten” are prohibited by various governing jurisdictions within the United States. Surprising places like Missouri did so. Towns like Hartford did so. Maryland soon followed suit. The effect of the stay-at-home orders of New York, California, Nevada, Illinois and Pennsylvania effectively achieve the same outcome. Other governing officials recognized the dubious lawlessness of these orders, but remain outliers. Remember the Hong Kong protests? Gone. Remember the Yellow Vest protests? Soon to be gone. Seen any protests on American streets today? A pandemic is here. Protests gone. Constitution quarantined.

SECOND AMENDMENT QUARANTINED?
But that is not all. Under the guise of “unnecessary businesses,” “emergency powers,” or simply by furloughing or reducing staff in the background checks department, governments show the willingness to limit Second Amendment rights as well as First Amendment protections. Mayors declare the right to ban gun sales, governments declare no background-check personnel to process a background check, delaying gun sales indefinitely, and other governments simply shut down all gun sales businesses entirely. Most worrisome, this happens while governments release inmates into the streets, and discuss releasing even more, and, at the same time, issue no-arrest and no-detention orders from Philadelphia to Fort Worth for a wide range of criminals. Want to defend yourself, give yourself a deep sense of personal protection that comes with gun ownership for many, as the Second Amendment safeguards? Well, no luck, according to too many of our governing overlords. A pandemic is here. Self-protection sacrificed. Constitution quarantined.

FOURTH AMENDMENT QUARANTINED?
Few protections are more American than the right to privacy against coerced, compelled, secretive, subversive invasion. The government operates like a virus in a case of a pandemic panic, infecting our minds and bodies, monitoring speech, association and movement, with tools of surveillance unthought-of to the founders. Coordinating with private companies (unrestrained by the Fourth Amendment; why do you think NSA uses them to gather all your emails, conversations, texts, and internet searches, at the first stage?), governments used the panic about the pandemic, a panic the government itself stoked with aid of a compliant, complicit press, to waive your medical privacy and invade your personal privacy, looking for tools to monitor your every movement, associations, activities, and behavior. The watching eye in the sky can now be the Alexa in your home, the camera on your computer, and the phone in your hand. A pandemic is here. Privacy ended. Constitution quarantined.

FIFTH AMENDMENT QUARANTINED?
The protection for our right to make a living arises from the Fifth Amendment right to property without deprivation by due process of law, and the obligation for the government to compensate any such takings. Yet, governments across America did just that to millions of businesses, workers, and property owners, stripping them of their ability to make a living, or even to engage in a free market of commerce, by shutdown orders, curfews, and stay-at-home orders. The political and professional class ensconced in its work-from-home environs fails to appreciate the hardship this imposes on working people. No compensation. No substitution. No wages. No revenues. No opportunity. Labor lost that can never be recovered, ever, while it leaves our economy teetering on the edge of a worst-ever depression. The foundation of government is to protect the pursuit of happiness. Now all we get to pursue is Netflix-and-chill and hope miracles happen to pay next week’s bills, and pray the market doesn’t crash like in 1929. A pandemic is here. Opportunity & property gone. Constitution quarantined.

CONCLUSION
Our founders were intimately familiar with pandemics, viruses and plagues, yet they did not allow any to suspend our Constitutional liberties. Not one word in the Constitution about plagues or pandemics to exempt the government from any of our Bill of Rights. Why do our current courts allow it? Because the public is asleep at the wheel. Think the pandemic threatens to kills us all? A review of the data shows the pandemic is more panic than plague.

Time to wake up. Maybe it is time in the motto of V for Vendetta, to “Remember, remember the fifth of November, the gunpowder treason and plot.” As that film’s lead character well said: “People shouldn’t be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.” Only when an awake public asserts their human liberties to protest the loss of their liberties will, then, governments quit using public health crises to seize power that does not belong to them. The answer to 1984 is still 1776.

Robert Barnes issued a message to President Trump on what he needs to do to end the destruction of our economy.

I Am an American Constitutional Lawyer – And I See Our Government Using Covid-19 to Take Away Our Fundamental Rights

Awesome post @Enoch111,
" Because the public is asleep at the wheel. "
Yes, for sure...fear is a powerful thing. And, Christians are asleep in the light! I cannot understand why so many, Christians included, put so much faith in politics, and the government. If they say they are Christian, people swallow it hook line and sinker. They are using the Christian right as their base and it is working. How very sad that there is such a lack of discernment!
Good post!

 

[FollowHim]

And if Mr. Trump is not careful, that could be the end result. The governors in some states are already showing their totalitarian streaks. Some are forbidding the use of anti-malarial drugs, even though they work. That is none of their business.

There should have been a very carefully thought out comprehensive plan in the White House to address every aspect of the issue, rather than ad hoc decisions on a daily basis. After that there should have been a proper Executive Order to ensure that there were no violations of the Constitution at the local, state, or federal levels, and shut downs were carefully executed.

Two points
Business drives the authorities
Business needs a free economy

Dead people consume nothing and cannot work. So put simply the fear of dictatorship is over played, the fear of millions of dead is not.

There is not enough army and police to run a police state, so for 3 months we need to chill.

 

[Timtofly]

Covid19 is God's army, no matter if it comes from man, nature, nor who takes credit or blame for it.

God is fully in control and fully aware of present day events.

 

[Timtofly]

Hate to point this out but Christianity thrives under abusive governments better than those separate from the apostate church.

The US will be the only (other than Israel) where the government was seperate from the church. The problem today is that the church is too much in bed with the government. Now we are complaining about our rights????

We gave up our rights, when the government took them away and became the "church". After the other national crisis, the two world wars. The church is now whining because a judgment sent by God himself, is now getting their attention?

We should pray for more persecution, to turn the hearts of many from complacency to Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of our faith. Romans 8:
18 I don’t think the sufferings we are going through now are even worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed to us in the future.
19 The creation waits eagerly for the sons of God to be revealed;
20 for the creation was made subject to frustration — not willingly, but because of the one who subjected it. But it was given a reliable hope
21 that it too would be set free from its bondage to decay and would enjoy the freedom accompanying the glory that God’s children will have.

 

[Joseph77]

I AM AN AMERICAN CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER – AND I SEE OUR GOVERNMENT USING COVID-19 TO TAKE AWAY OUR FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS

From God, as He Reveals in His Word, and by the Revelation in line with His Word, as Written, as Breathed by Him,

we can know the "what the truth is about it"..... There is NOTHING HIDDEN, that will not be exposed. (although society never cares for truth)

 

[Joseph77]

==========================================================================
QUOTE
="Timtofly, post: 724655, member: 8638"]Hate to point this out but Christianity thrives under abusive governments better than those separate from the apostate church.

The US will be the only (other than Israel) where the government was seperate from the church. The problem today is that the church is too much in bed with the government. Now we are complaining about our rights????

We gave up our rights, when the government took them away and became the "church". After the other national crisis, the two world wars. The church is now whining because a judgment sent by God himself, is now getting their attention?

We should pray for more persecution, to turn the hearts of many from complacency to Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of our faith. Romans 8:
18 I don’t think the sufferings we are going through now are even worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed to us in the future.
19 The creation waits eagerly for the sons of God to be revealed;
20 for the creation was made subject to frustration — not willingly, but because of the one who subjected it. But it was given a reliable hope
21 that it too would be set free from its bondage to decay and would enjoy the freedom accompanying the glory that God’s children will have.
[/QUOTE
===============================================================================
Those in china (abusive governments) have been praying for persecution for the apostate church in the usa for a century almost.

"Rights"? Last century it was at least known in groups of people meeting together to talk about God, serving Him, that all rights are voluntarily given up (as if there were any before), when someone is purchased by the Blood of the Lamb- All is now His, everything.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Two points
Business drives the authorities
Business needs a free economy

Dead people consume nothing and cannot work. So put simply the fear of dictatorship is over played, the fear of millions of dead is not.

There is not enough army and police to run a police state, so for 3 months we need to chill.

One point about this man made Virus is that it kills the people who are not strong and healthy ? it would be a good thing to let loose to get rid of all the people sponging off the tax payers, and would set the future brighter for all down the track, from one point of view ? one has to look from every perspective that one can think of as to why one would set something up like this ?
But then we could look at just this being used from another angle, lets try and destroy the economy and create a depression and that way we can kill many more people and set up and make the world one big Communist NWO. ? in this concept they can put so much debt on us that we are even more indebt slaves to the ones who rule over all. your Super will become worthless if the world goes into a depression and people will go nuts ! I have come across people who think that their Super is above all god given type of thing. Super will not stand a depression !

A depression will bring about a dictator like it did with Germany, Hitler was the greatest leader the world has ever had by far and that's a fact, he turned the Nation around from being run by total worthless fools who had created 200% inflation to become on track to become a super power in only how many years 6 ? The UK had graphs showing the future economy of Germany was going to wipe the floor with the UK and that's why W Churchill demanded publicly 3 years before the war that Germany was going to have to go to war with the UK regardless if she wants it or not.
Hitler was ranting about the world Banking Mob were the ones who dragged Germany through the mud in the depression humiliating them the most of all the world and that the worldly Jew who only takes advantage of all clearly regardless, was in fact a heartless scoundrel that all through history had a track record of undermining every Nation that host them. Beware the Jew who comes bearing gifts, has been a saying for how many years ?
Every Nation knew not to trust the Jews be it the UK and all, I never heard one person who did not know that the Jews were bastards that only took advantage of all they could, they are worldly people just like any idiot atheist fool, only the Jew is much better educated and a pro con-artist who knows the atheist is putty in their hands, the atheist always love and admire the Jews cunning and that's why you see they stand up for such a whore.
Hitler was a Jew and played the Germans for fools, he was truly a cunning Satanic bastard that gave power to the Zionist Jews who were only 10% of German Jews and from their it all worked like clock work hand in hand with his relation Lord Rothschild. Still today the majority still do not know that we are all being duped by Satanic powers who are so cunning and evil that we can not accept the reality of what lengths such people will do.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Hitler was a master over the Germans duping them into a false games much like a cat with a mouse, using their strengths for them and against them creating delusions as the deceptions are played, much the same as the world is being lead nowadays . Oh he cunning !
People who do not understand foundations have no hope in dealing with such Satanist.
All that the Satanist has to do is let the weeds grow and the host will be destroyed, that's what has been at play within the Churches, they have taken their eyes of Jesus Christ and jumped in bed with the Atheist just to appease them so they will not be offended.
Remember Jesus said, you shall not offend anyone or anything that the worldly do.
Remember Jesus said, you shall not be a racist that's the first commandment don't you know or is that the new age world what they demand ? so that you are not to think for yourself, they will do that for you. they must be one of your gods that serve you !
Hey hey ! gods that serve us, yes please ! just like every fool atheist sure as hell wants in fact. he wants the gods to serve himself. that's what they always do. I don't want people offending me ! regardless, I want to do it, My way ! as one Satanist Jew once sung a song about, wanting to be on top of the heap A number one ! in all the glitter of commercialism. no wonder people are so lost because they are wound up in the cares of this world.
So they have no hope ! the Satanist rule them and they tag along like a drongo but claiming to be smart to every goose that swallows such.
Remember when Jesus was talking to the Devil and how the Devil even worked to try and lead Jesus astray. look what he was giving Jesus the whole world ! but Jesus is not of this world ? it has no power over him at all and that's why he knows what this world is, it's a cesspit ! don't be surprised of the deceptions are not 100% what you thought it was. Nothing is truly what you thought it was until you bothered to look into it all.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The Devil is always in the detail, one just has to work it out, who is playing who and why.

 

[Joseph77]

The Devil is always in the detail, one just has to work it out, who is playing who and why.

As if this is coincidence :

Who is online on this site now:

Total: 67 (members: 10, guests: 44, robots: 13)

(robots often number over 50 at one time, I think, from past checking)

 

[Joseph77]

People who do not understand foundations have no hope in dealing with such Satanist.

People who do not understand foundations have no hope in dealing with such Satanist.
All that the Satanist has to do is let the weeds grow and the host will be destroyed, that's what has been at play within the Churches, they have taken their eyes of Jesus Christ and jumped in bed with the Atheist just to appease them so they will not be offended.

Is anyplace true anymore? Is there honesty anywhere reliable , testable, proven true ? (any forum? any site? any church?)