The Basis of Salvation

[Marymog]

I never think about Mary.
Mary is not to be compared to the Risen Lord.
Mary is a sinner who was given the blessing of birthing God into the world.
After this, and years later, she sinned, she had more kids, she died.
Jesus never called her MARY.
Not once in the NT. And you dont know that.
I acknowledge she is the chosen among women and for this she is blessed.
But she is just one more human being, born into sin, who died like all the rest.
The cult of Mary, is not of God.

God and Jesus think about Mary. You don’t!
God and Jesus love, honor and respect Mary. You can’t even say you do...how sad.

Are you being Christ like when it comes to Mary?

 

[Behold]

Just as I thought . . .
I gave you TWO examples of people kneeling in prayer before inanimate objects and you were dumbstruck.

Im only amazed at the depth of deceit and hypocrisy that a cult of mary heretic will stoop to... to try to convince sane, moral, logical people, who are actually born again, that your false leader, and your devil designed cult of Mary, is God's True church.
You are out of your teens, and are apparently an adult ??????? (debatable), and you are on a Christian forum defending a false Pope who is found kneeling before and kissing the feet of a Plastic Mary IDOL trying to behave as if this isn't the devil's work.
Here you are with your beads, and your penance, and your eucharist idolatry, and your priest confession and your water baptism attempted substitution for God's blood, and you keep a straight face and are bold with your deceit.
You need to wake up and leave your cult of mary, as you have already given so many years to the dark light.
Will you give him more?
Will you be that fooL?
-

 

[BreadOfLife]

Im only amazed at the depth of deceit and hypocrisy that a cult of mary heretic will stoop to... to try to convince sane, moral, logical people, who are actually born again, that your false leader, and your devil designed cult of Mary, is God's True church.
You are out of your teens, and are apparently an adult ??????? (debatable), and you are on a Christian forum defending a false Pope who is found kneeling before and kissing the feet of a Plastic Mary IDOL trying to behave as if this isn't the devil's work.
Here you are with your beads, and your penance, and your eucharist idolatry, and your priest confession and your water baptism attempted substitution for God's blood, and you keep a straight face and are bold with your deceit.
You need to wake up and leave your cult of mary, as you have already given so many years to the dark light.
Will you give him more?
Will you be that fooL?

You keep posting your idiotic and ignorant gripes with the Church - yet you have RUN from the actual topic at EVERY turn.

Suffice it to say, I have repeatedly presented ample Scriptural evidence that SINKS your false 16th century invention of OSAS – and you cannot refute the Scriptural proof.

All you can do is continue your diatribes against “plastic Mary”, Rosary beads and the Pope.
This is the typical, albeit pathetic response from yet another defeated anti-Catholic.

As I’ve told you before – you’re a cliché. Just another Scripturally and historically bankrupt little anti-Catholic with mind-numbingly moronic debating skills.

 

[APAK]

The RCC and its followers believe in many heathen concepts and beliefs that completely conceal the gospel message for salvation spoken of and preached by Yahshua and Paul. Some areas of critical concern:

1. They worship heathen idols

2. They twist and redefine scripture to conform it to their religious idol worshiping doctrine.

3. And the last one, of this topic or thread: They have no assurance of salvation (a shame) because they have especially twisted the concept of grace given by the creator via his Son to all men. They have ridiculed and mocked the simple grace of God and added to it their own concept of obedience or works to this grace as their church also defines these works. As a consequence they have also defiled the biblical concept of sanctification and cooperation with the Almighty, absent of the spirit of Yahshua. They do their salvation works of sanctification alone, of their own created sanctification, apart from the Son and the Father. They are empty works that lead to 'death.'

From a RC booklet designed to evangelize: The booklet states, "We do not 'earn' our salvation through good works (Eph. 2:8-9, Rom. 9:16), but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace-filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life." (Rom. 2:7, Gal. 6:8-9)

They are compelled to do works to be rewarded with eternal life in the next life....they never define obedience in the booklet because it means that they have to list the tomes of all the RCC qualification criteria prerequisites and works within and outside the RCC for salvation.

Biblical grace is God's unmerited love, mercy, and forgiveness for sinners that HE CAN ONLY GIVE, because of his Son -Christ. There is no additional "grace-filled" works of obedience to gain a reward.

APAK

 

[Behold]

You keep posting your idiotic and ignorant gripes with the Church - .

First of all, don't insult the Spirit of God by proclaiming that the cult of mary is "the church".
Dont do that, as this offend's God's Truth.

Here is your reality. = You are on a Legit Christian forum, "christian" not catholic.... trying to teach that worshiping a plastic mary as the queen of heaven, is "of God".
Its not.
Stop being both offensive to God and ignorant in general.
-

 

[BreadOfLife]

First of all, don't insult the Spirit of God by proclaiming that the cult of mary is "the church".
Dont do that, as this offend's God's Truth.

Here is your reality. = You are on a Legit Christian forum, "christian" not catholic.... trying to teach that worshiping a plastic mary as the queen of heaven, is "of God".
Its not.
Stop being both offensive to God and ignorant in general.

Yes, you posted the same impotent response in another thread.
I guess we'll never get to a point where you can actually refute the Scriptural decimation of your 16th century man-made invention of OSAS.
As I stated before - "Epignosis" is the Kryptonite to your Calvinist fallacy.

Whenever you're ready to address the facts, however, they're right here for your edification . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek word for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential and relational knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[Behold]

Yes, you posted the same impotent response in another thread.
I guess we'll never get to a point where you can actually refute the Scriptural decimation of your 16th century man-made invention of OSAS.
As I stated before - "Epignosis" is the Kryptonite to your Calvinist fallacy.

Im not a calvinist.
Wrong again.

Here is your cult of mary.
You should leave it, and receive Christ instead.

--

 

[Candidus]

Is this person “worshipping” the casket or the dead person inside – or just praying in front of a loved one?

Is this guy “worshipping” a piece of carved stone – or simply praying in front of one?

Your accusations are as asinine and ignorant as your grasp of Scripture and history . . .

Yet... the Roman Catholics I know do not just "pray in front of" a statue of Mary! They pray "to" Mary!

I have been to a Roman Catholic Church. I have family members that go to that Roman Catholic Church. I listened and observed what was going on, and even asked questions. They are not ashamed to say that they pray "to" Mary and other "Saints" when they bow as Idol Worshipers before a statue.

The attempt of Roman Catholics to convince others that "veneration" and "idol worship" are not the same thing, is nothing more than a semantical strategy in an attempt to gaslight non-catholics. Praying to God on your knees before a grave or casket, is not praying to the dead, but to God. The comparison of this and praying to the dead (Mary) is Idolatry. If someone "prays" to a dead family member, and believes that they are communicating with them on the "other side" is necromancy, not Christianity.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Im not a calvinist.
Wrong again.

Here is your cult of mary.
You should leave it, and receive Christ instead.

I didn't say you were a Calvininst.
I said that your false doctrine was invented by John Calvin in the 16th century.

You should have listened to Paul . . .

Eph. 4:14
As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yet... the Roman Catholics I know do not just "pray in front of" a statue of Mary! They pray "to" Mary!

I have been to a Roman Catholic Church. I have family members that go to that Roman Catholic Church. I listened and observed what was going on, and even asked questions. They are not ashamed to say that they pray "to" Mary and other "Saints" when they bow as Idol Worshipers before a statue.

The attempt of Roman Catholics to convince others that "veneration" and "idol worship" are not the same thing, is nothing more than a semantical strategy in an attempt to gaslight non-catholics. Praying to God on your knees before a grave or casket, is not praying to the dead, but to God. The comparison of this and praying to the dead (Mary) is Idolatry. If someone "prays" to a dead family member, and believes that they are communicating with them on the "other side" is necromancy, not Christianity.

Ummmm, first of all, you REALLY need to read your Bible to understand the Biblical definition of "necromancy".
It is defined as "seeking oracles from the dead". In other words - trying to get information from the dead.

When we ask a member of the Body of Christ in Heaven to pray FOR us - it is NO different that YOU asking a friend here on earth to pray FOR you. Crack open a dictionary and turn to the word "Pray":

Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of "pray"
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

"Worship" is a SECONDARY definition.
"Pray" is something we do on a DAILY basis every time we ASK somebody a question. It is legal, juridical language that is used in police reports and court documents.

Finally - "idolatry" is the WORSHIP of someone or something as a god.
So, get your facts straight . . .

 

[Candidus]

Ummmm, first of all, you REALLY need to read your Bible to understand the Biblical definition of "necromancy".
It is defined as "seeking oracles from the dead". In other words - trying to get information from the dead.

When we ask a member of the Body of Christ in Heaven to pray FOR us - it is NO different that YOU asking a friend here on earth to pray FOR you. Crack open a dictionary and turn to the word "Pray":

Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of "pray"
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

"Worship" is a SECONDARY definition.
"Pray" is something we do on a DAILY basis every time we ASK somebody a question. It is legal, juridical language that is used in police reports and court documents.

Finally - "idolatry" is the WORSHIP of someone or something as a god.
So, get your facts straight . . .

Go ahead, double-down on semantics and gaslighting!

Praying "TO" a dead person (who not only cannot hear you, they cannot be "implored" to pray for you at your request), is IDOLOTRY.

Try looking that word up in the dictionary!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Go ahead, double-down on semantics and gaslighting!
Praying "TO" a dead person (who not only cannot hear you, they cannot be "implored" to pray for you at your request), is IDOLOTRY.
Try looking that word up in the dictionary!

Heb. 1:12 tells us that "we are surrounded by so great a cloud of WITNESSES" and that we need to behave accordingly.
What is a "witness"?? It is someone who SEES and HEARS.

They have been made PERFECT i Christ (Rev. 21:27) and they can hear our pleas for prayer because they are IN Christ.
Rev. 5:8 shows the Elders in Heaven INTERCEDING on our behalf by taking our prayers to God.

YOUR turn . . .

 

[Behold]

I didn't say you were a Calvininst.
I said that your false doctrine was invented by John Calvin in the 16th century.
You should have listened to Paul . . .Eph. 4:14
As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming.

I teach Paul.
You teach Mary.
The "deceitful scheming" your verse is talking about is what has happened to you. You are a victim of a cult of mary that has taken your life away, and caused you to waste yourself.

Any more questions?
-

 

[BreadOfLife]

I teach Paul.
You teach Mary.
The "deceitful scheming" your verse is talking about is what has happened to you. You are a victim of a cult of mary that has taken your life away, and caused you to waste yourself.

Any more questions?

I don't teach Paul - I teach Christ..

YOU each Calvin, then you condemn him.
Hypocrisy . . .

 

[Behold]

I don't teach Paul - I teach Christ..
YOU each Calvin, then you condemn him.
Hypocrisy . . .

Do you teach Christ?
I had only noticed that you teach Mary and the Eucharist.

You can't even teach the Gospel of the Grace of God, as your cult of mary rejects "justification by faith", alone.
Your cult is a works based heretical monster that substituted baptismal regeneration for the Blood Atonement and Justification by faith.
You and your cult are this...... Galatians 1:8

You yourself think you are one with God because of WATER.
So dont lie. We know what you are, ok?

Listen, even your "mary assumption" day is a pagan holiday that is related to worshiping goddesses, and is easily shown to be so.
Just open wikipedia or an encyclopedia, or a Wiccan Festival book, or a Witch's holiday calendar.
"mary assumption day", August 15, = Pagan day, world wide for 1500 yrs....obo.
And if that is too much for you to discover, then do a 30 second study on the Roman Augustus, and find out about that DAY and DATE.
And of course your cult has an answer for that...... as they'd have to lie, but they have an answer., and you'll believe it, because they own you.

You have given your life, not to Christ, but to a cult, and you have no ability, no intellectual ability or even common logical discernment ability, to look at men in costumes, praying to a Plastic 30 Ft Tall "mary", and not realize that this is foul in the eyes of God and certainly not of Christ.
-

 

[marks]

Heb. 1:12 tells us that "we are surrounded by so great a cloud of WITNESSES" and that we need to behave accordingly.
What is a "witness"?? It is someone who SEES and HEARS.

They have been made PERFECT i Christ (Rev. 21:27) and they can hear our pleas for prayer because they are IN Christ.
Rev. 5:8 shows the Elders in Heaven INTERCEDING on our behalf by taking our prayers to God.

YOUR turn . . .

Actually, in this case, "witness" is one who testifies. That's the meaning of the word there.

Much love!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Actually, in this case, "witness" is one who testifies. That's the meaning of the word there.

Much love!

It's not the SOLE meaning
Otherwise, there would be NO reason for the author of Hebrews to remind his readers that they are "surrounded" by this "cloud of witnesses".

Context - always look at the CONTEXT . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Do you teach Christ?
I had only noticed that you teach Mary and the Eucharist.
You can't even teach the Gospel of the Grace of God, as your cult of mary rejects "justification by faith", alone.
Your cult is a works based heretical monster that substituted baptismal regeneration for the Blood Atonement and Justification by faith.
You and your cult are this...... Galatians 1:8

You yourself think you are one with God because of WATER.
So dont lie. We know what you are, ok?

Listen, even your "mary assumption" day is a pagan holiday that is related to worshiping goddesses, and is easily shown to be so.
Just open wikipedia or an encyclopedia, or a Wiccan Festival book, or a Witch's holiday calendar.
"mary assumption day", August 15, = Pagan day, world wide for 1500 yrs....obo.
And if that is too much for you to discover, then do a 30 second study on the Roman Augustus, and find out about that DAY and DATE.
And of course your cult has an answer for that...... as they'd have to lie, but they have an answer., and you'll believe it, because they own you.

You have given your life, not to Christ, but to a cult, and you have no ability, no intellectual ability or even common logical discernment ability, to look at men in costumes, praying to a Plastic 30 Ft Tall "mary", and not realize that this is foul in the eyes of God and certainly not of Christ.

then, perhaps YOU can correct me - AND the Holy Spirit, speaking through James, Einstein.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

Take your time.
I'll wait right here . . .

 

[APAK]

It's not the SOLE meaning
Otherwise, there would be NO reason for the author of Hebrews to remind his readers that they are "surrounded" by this "cloud of witnesses".

Context - always look at the CONTEXT . . .

Yes, always know the context of scripture under study BOL...

Look BOL Hebrews 12: 1 is what you meant and not Heb 1:12. This 'cloud of witnesses' is a figurative expression for the millions of OT saints that went before us and were faithful under the Law and OT as YHWH required. Paul is telling us to run the race under grace as if they were around watching/witnessing us complete the purpose of YHWH of faith and grace to salvation. We have also figuratively picked up the baton from them (the OT faithful) to finish the race and plan of YHWH under his grace. Please understand the context yourself as you have eagerly condemned another for not doing so. And so this 'cloud' is not a literal meaning as you have suggest in your previous posts.. you might want to log that down for future reverence when you want to try and fit Heb 12:1 as support for praying to the dead...I guess you meant this as your support, in part?

APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, always know the context of scripture under study BOL...

Look BOL Hebrews 12: 1 is what you meant and not Heb 1:12. This 'cloud of witnesses' is a figurative expression for the millions of OT saints that went before us and were faithful under the Law and OT as YHWH required. Paul is telling us to run the race under grace as if they were around watching/witnessing us complete the purpose of YHWH of faith and grace to salvation. We have also figuratively picked up the baton from them (the OT faithful) to finish the race and plan of YHWH under his grace. Please understand the context yourself as you have eagerly condemned another for not doing so. And so this 'cloud' is not a literal meaning as you have suggest in your previous posts.. you might want to log that down for future reverence when you want to try and fit Heb 12:1 as support for praying to the dead...I guess you meant this as your support, in part?

APAK

A witness sees and hears. A witness is not a paperweight.
Besides, there is precedent for "dead" saints (Moses & Elijah) being alive and aware at a little Biblical incident known as the Transfiguration (Luke 9:28-36).

And, as I stated earlier - Rev. 5:8 shows those in heaven interceding on our behalf by taking our prayers to God.
Anything else?