The Beast that was, and is not, and yet is

[tgwprophet]

Consider that the Beast that receives the mortal wound actually dies and Satan over-takes his body and heals it. So now, Satan is in this body.. which he will later edify with his beauty at the time of the Abomination of Desolation or he over-takes the body of the Beast at the Abomination of Desolation. So lets examine these possibilities.

The Beast that was... is the Beast that receives the mortal wound, he was born on earth, he is a person, when his body is given to Satan...he becomes the beast that is not. When Satan has an image of the Beast that had the mortal wound this beast becomes the Beast that yet is. This gives Satan a body.... a human body. Now at the time of the Abomination of Desolation he...Satan may edify that body with his beauty and immortality but the actual reason for over-taking a human body is that he now has a history.. a past.. he does not just seem to appear on earth. This act also gives him postion, prestige and wealth, all originating from the Beast that receives the mortal wound.

How else would Satan gain poiwer position wealth and a past if he were to just pop onto the earth and how else is it explained about the beast that was and is not and yet is? Then also, why is an image of the Beast that received the woud built and from where does the life originate from that Satan gives this image - except it comes from the beast that receives the mortal wound?

This is a working model taking all into consideration. Now, does anyone have a better working model explaning the Beast, satan and the Image of the Beast that is given life and where that life comes from along with the verse of: the beast that was and is not and yet is..even he is the eighth?

I have shown...

1) Satan takes the body of the Beast which had the mortal wound.
2) Why the Image of the Beast (which had the mortal wound) is given life.
3) Where the Image of the Beast gets life.
4) Who gives the Image of the Beast life.
5) Who the Beast was
6) Why the Beast is not
7) How the Beast yet is
8) Where Satan gets history, position and wealth
9) When and Where Satan edifies the body he took from the Beast
10) A plausable wroking model

If you think your idea or understanding is better, feel free to address all ten points providing a better workable model. Please number all ten like I did.

The idea that Satan takes over the body of the Beast that receives the mortal wound was an insight I held for nearly two decades. And insight I have never seen anyone show before me ( not that I really care if I am the first ) . However, the insight that tied it together with the beast that was and is not and yet is...that insight I was given yesterday, just before I originally posted this thread. I do not contend that this is a fact, but do see it as a very strong probability and posted it to see if any others agree or not and why.

If i remember rightly, it was supposed that the one addressed as the Beast that was and is not and yet is - was always considered to be Satan by Revelation Prophecy Theologians. However delve into it and consider the above information... The Beast that "is not" could never be consider Satan as he never fits the "is not" aspect of Scripture. . The Beast that "was" does not infer that this Beast "always" was. So. certainly if he has but a past - he qalifies. This leads us to dscovery and resolve that the Beast that was and is not and yet is...even he is the 8th - means this is the Beast also considered The Anti-Christ - the Beast that receives the mortal wound, the Beast whose life is given to The Image of the Beast.

This information backs up my teaching that the body of the Beast is taken over by Satan. Consider that when Satan over takes the body of the Beast.. the Beast is left without a body - meaning he is at that time...the Beast that "was and is not." When that Beast's life is given to the image of the Beast - he becomes the Beast that "yet is." This understanding proves the idea revision is necessary concerning the Beast that was and is not, and yet is. I wrote this in a slightly different manner that the understanding is not corrupted for my lack of consice posting.

 

[Guestman]

At Revelation 17, there is seen a "harlot" that rides the back of a "scarlet-colored wild beast" that is "full of blasphemous names and having seven heads and ten horns".(Rev 17:3) This "scarlet-colored wild beast" is seen at verse 8 as "the wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction." It is also noted as being "an eighth king" (Rev 17:11) that "those who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly" (Rev 17:8b), following the "seven (kings)" at Revelation 17:10. This is not the same "wild beast" that is pictured at Revelation 13:1, 2, but descends from it.

First off, what is the "wild beast ascending out of the sea" that is seen at Revelation 13:1, 2 ? The book of Daniel helps unravel this, for Daniel sees "four huge beasts ....out of the sea".(Dan 7:3) These "four huge beasts" picture world empires that correspond to Daniel 2, as the "first one....like a lion" (Dan 7:4, "head of gold", Dan 2:38) is ancient Babylon that gained world ascendacy in 632 B.C.E. with the downfall of Assyria by the combined forces of Babylonian king Nabopolassar and Cyaxares the Mede, the second Medo-Persia like a "bear" (Dan 7:5, "breasts and arms of silver", Dan 2:32) that caused the downfall of Babylon on October 5/6, 539 B.C.E., the third Greece "like a leopard" (Dan 7:6, "thighs...of copper", Dan 2:32b), the fourth "beast" was the Roman Empire, who took control of the last Hellenistic kingdom - the Ptolemaic dynasty ruling in Egypt - in 30 B.C.E.

Just as the "four huge beasts" are world empires that had a direct impact upon God's people and that came from the restless masses of the "sea" of mankind, so likewise the "wild beast ascending out of the sea" at Revelation 13 is a composite view of all human governments as one "wild beast" that ascended "out of the sea" or restless mankind who have rejected God's kingdom or rulership.(Isa 57:20) This "wild beast" is a creation of the "dragon" or Satan Rev 13:1a), which is a composite of seven world empires that have directly affected Jehovah God's people.

However, from the "wild beast" comes forth a "scarlet-colored wild beast" or "eighth king". The "seven heads" of the "wild beast" are (1) Egypt, (2) Assyria, (3) Babylon, (4) Medo-Persia, (5) Greece, (6) Rome, and finally, (7) the Anglo/American dual world power or Britain-America, that ascended to this position in 1917, near the end of World War I. This is the final world power of Bible history.The other six have long disappeared from the world scene, but the last one, Britain-America, brings forth a "scarlet-colored wild beast".

What is the "scarlet-colored wild beast" that is also ridden upon by a blood guilty "harlot" ?(Rev 18:3, 24) In 1919, a peace-keeping organization was proposed, in which President Woodrow Wilson of the United States told delegates to the Paris Peace Conference: "Representatives of the United States support this great project for a League of Nations........We are here to see, in short, that the very foundations of this war are swept away." Following Wilson's speech, British prime minister Lloyd George spoke: "I arise to support this resolution....and I ....state how emphatically the people of the British Empire are behind this proposal."

On January 16, 1920, the League of Nations was established with a membership of 42 nations, becoming as "was". By 1934, it embraced 58 nations. Yet, with the outbreak of World War II on September 1, 1939, it collapsed, becoming as "is not" by going off into the "abyss". Then, after World War II had ended, on October 24, 1945, the "scarlet-colored wild beast" was revived and came "out of the abyss" as the United Nations, now having 193 member nations.(Rev 17:8)

Yet, our Creator, Jehovah God, will use this so-called peace-keeping organization to devastate its rider, the "harlot", Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion.(Rev 17:16) At Revelation 17:17, this thought of devastation will not originate within the United Nations, but from God, for it says that "God put it (the thought of eating up her fleshy parts, burning her completely in the fire) into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out their one thought (the member nations feel that they are the source of this devastation) by giving their kingdom to wild beast (United Nations), until the words of God will have been fulfilled."

 

[tgwprophet]

Does not fit, The League of Nations never had a mortal wound. It never went into any abyss, as though that is such a place. Then to revive it as the Untied Nations does not fit either, for only the fundmental philosophy of a one world order fits and even then, that was taken over by the New World Order - so with the United Nations remaining and The NWO... this has no chance of fitting. Furthermore, to include the League of Nations is to start Revelation at 1920 not 1948.

I also ask that you number them as did I. You did come up with one idea addressing one aspect, but it should explain the whole.

 

[Guestman]

You are confusing the "wild beast" of Revelation 13:3, whereby it says that "one of its heads (was) slaughtered....but its death-stroke was healed", showing the ' seventh king' (Anglo-American dual world power) as having suffered such a severe blow during World War I that it seemed as if had received a "death-stroke" but revived, with Revelation 17, whereby there is seen a "scarlet-colored wild beast", an "image" of the "wild beast" at Revelation 13:1, 2. These are not the same, but rather the "scarlet-colored wild beast" is a creation of the "wild beast", specifically the "wild beast" with "two horns like a lamb" (Rev 13:11), the Anglo-American dual world power.

So it can rightly be asked, What did the political "wild beast" make that is a mirror "image" of itself ? Since, the book of Revelation focuses on events during "the Lord's day" (Rev 1:10) that began in 1914 with Jesus enthronement as king of God's kingdom, then this "scarlet-colored wild beast" is that which comes into existence after this.

Hence, with the creation of a political "image" of the "wild beast", becoming as "was" or now existing, the League of Nations mirrored what especially the "seventh king" wanted, a so-called peacekeeping organization so that people would "wonder admiringly" at it.(Rev 17:8b) This gave credence and accolades to it from other nations.

The League of Nations did little to bring about peace, for less than twenty years after its formation, it went into the "abyss" on September 1, 1939, when Hitler invaded Poland. It became as "is not" during the course of World War II, until its successor came to life as the United Nations on October 24, 1945, ascending "out of the abyss" (Rev 17:8a) or death-like state.

 

[Joshua David]

Terry,

Very well thought out.. And to be honest, It is as solid an argument as any that I have seen. The only question that I have is how do you explain that at the second coming the 'Beast' is captured alive and thrown into the lake of fire, along with the false prophet, while Satan, the dragon, is captured and thrown into the abyss with a seal over it, to be released at the end of the millennium. At the Great White Throne Judgement, when everyone else receives their final judgment, the beast and the false prophet are shown to still be in the Lake of Fire, which strongly implies that they were alive, and Jesus gave them their final judgment before the millennium, instead of waiting for the GWT judgment.

What are your thoughts on how your idea fits into these scriptures.

Joshua David

 

[tgwprophet]

ONE MAY WISH TO RE-READ THIS AS I EDITED IT OR ADDED MORE SINCE THIS ADDITION WAS POSTED.

Lets say it this way... The Beast is figure 1 Satan is figure 2 and the false peophet is figure 3

The Beast (1) is removed of his body and put into the image of the Beast...
Satan takes over the body of the Beast (2)
The false prophet (3) is the one with a Jewish connection... a seperate being and the connection that allows Satan access to the Temple and the inner-sanctum. Now then... are physical bodies thrown into the abyss or hell or perdition? Not necessarily... the image of the beast that has the life of the Beast, his body is no more needed to incarsorate him in hell than any person burned to death and whose ashes are scattered to the winds. .Ok, so consider the Beast being imprisoned in the " Image of the Beast " just as we are imprisoned in our bodies.

The Beast whose "life" is given to the Image of the Beast. now has a fixed position just as our body gives us a fixed position. Think of it.. if the Beast was not given a fixed position, such as we understand our bodies to be... then the problem your question poses would have more difficultly in understanding, not less.

The Image of the Beast...is given... Life. The Image of the Beast is of course, given the life OF the Beast, what other " life " would be valid? And why would there be two Beasts now who are actually one? How about another life - other than that of the Beast that received the mortal would be given to this Image of the Beast. How does it fit that the the Image of the Beast could be given life of anyone else - other than the Beast that received the mortal wound?

Now then we could debate... The Beast (1) The false messih - Satan, The false prophet (3) a high priest, BUT at this point, and for this dicussion it really doesn't matter, as we are focused on the ability to conatin a soul or spirit, not which one is which. Also you term "alive" must be remembered as a " no physical body " needed for being alive. When all are judged and it is over, and they are thrown into the lake of fire... do they " die " - nope - they are there... alive.... forever. Although this is the limited understanding we currently have... I have considered this aspect many times, and I often wonder that after Armageddon if we are not to be given new information as the eternity those in hell and then the lake of fire.. endure.

By the way... thanks for seeing how well thought out it was, JD, but I must decline the cudos as it only took a moment. The beast that was and is not and yet is ... is a topic i had been wrestling with for a couple decades, until the day I posted this..it came to me in a moment and extremely clear. So that glory goes to God.

There are so many holes in the League of Naions, Untied Nations and New world Order suppositions that it is difficult for me to see why anyone would think that. I did however give ten points to itemize for view and evaluation yet the UN ideas have not numbered their connnections.. please do.

How is it considered a "healing" that the UN is formed? 911 took down the twin towers... that could be considered a mortal wound... if one stretches their imagination... since then... Benladen has been terminated and the area of the twin towers made into a memorial, but NEVER was it claimed it was "healed" - and it is far superior to the aching hearts of people than the demise of the League of Nations. The incinerators Hitler used are even greater than the twin towers and they also would take presidence over the League of Nation as a mortal wounded thingy. And it certainly doesn't stop there.

One more bit of information concerning the League of Nations as fitting the Beast that was and is not and yet is. since its conceptin was in 1920 and it is now 2013 and Tribulation is 7 years and has yet to start... then, when Jesus said all these things will come to pass in one generation... ( MATT: 24 ) this would require now that one generation is 100 years...or more and that is not possible.

And so, if one now discludes the necessity of binding the League of Nations into that " one generation " THEN one MUST include ALL the world wide conquests and all the times a one world order was attempted or was just on the agenda, and so the " Beast that was and is not and yet is " is certainly written wrong, for it should read " te Beast that was and was again and was again and was not and was not again and again and again... See it does not matter if one was sucessful for none have been, it is only necessary to be inclusive if one had tried or even wanted to try to achieve world domination. And why did Alexander weep? (was it alexander?) - for there were no more worlds to conquer... ok get my meaning?

On another thought.. If Satan could destroy a prophecy... then he "just might" be able to destroy all prophecies. So consider this... The Anti-Chirst.. the one called the Beast that recives the mortal wound... if it were possible. he would kill the Two Witnesses. Now accordinngly, he cannot, he is not powerful enough to do so, if he could .. he certainly would and he would do it long before Satan takes over his body. The Two Witnesses die in Jerusalem and so, this Beast would kill them elsewhere..if he could kill them at all. Because Satan over-takes the body of the Beast which gets the mortal woulkd and he does this AT the Abomination of Desolation that occurs.... where?... Jesusalem ! - the Temple ! - The Inner-Sanctum !... When Satan emerges from there... guess what.. the Two Witnesses are there also. And one of Satan's first acts is to.... Killl them, for the Beast - the life of the Beast that received the mortal wound, who gave up his body to Satan, did not have the power to do that, it takes Satan himself to be able to kill the Two Witnesses. And why does Satan allow the Two Witnesses to remain undisturbed where they died for 3 1/2 days? Becasue of the earthquake?

Consider that when Satan edifies himself at the Abonination of Desolation, if the 1,260 days of the Two Witnesses were not near the end... then Satan could wai until the Two Witnesses leave Jerusalem or even Israel. But instead, killing the Two Witnesses to avoid them displaying other or more proof that they are of God - which would dismiss Satan...Satan's resolve is to only fulfill prophecy. This makes it necessary for those that place the end of the Two Witnesses at any other point in Tribulation to revise their understanding, and it affects more than just that concerning a time-line of prophecy.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi Terry,

Have just read some of the book written by Josephus, The War of the Jews. In it he speaks of the temple in Jerusalem being taken over by three different groups of Jews that begin fighting among themselves while living in the temple. This was prior to Titus and the Roman army surrounding Jerusalem. When these Jews took control, they were the ones who made the temple desolate by the murdering of the priests, the killings among themselves and the blood that was flowing throughout the temple. If there ever was a group of people that were prosessed, and lived like a beast, it was them. By the time Titus and his army showed up the Jews had killed off most of the population of Jerusalem and took all their food, leaving those left alive starving. When Titus arrived with his army, he made offer after offer for them to surrender, but they refused everytime. Even though Titus wanted to save the temple, it could not happen as that was the place that the last battle was to happen. The temple was destroyed totally, just as Jesus had told his disciples it would be.


Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

[ENOCH2010]

How could Josephus know what was going on inside the walls of Jerusalem during the siege, according to his writings he was outside the wall with Titus ?

 

[tgwprophet]

The Abomination of Desolation is comited when an " unclean thing " is taken into the inner-sanctum of th Temple. The Abomination of Desolation has happened more than once before, but will happen once more... and that is when the anti-christ - the Beast with the mortal wound enters the inner-sanctum of the Temple at mid point in Tribulation.

When an abomination is taken into the inner-sanctum God leaves. God leaving (the Holy Spirit departing) makes the inner-sanctum desolate - barren as a sand dune. The inner-sanctum is then no longer Holy until it has been cleansed - atonement for the abomination. By un-clean thing - I mean anything that is not supposed to be allowed into the inner-sanctum. the high priest was to be the only person allowed into the inner-sanctum and he had to be of the Jewish faith... not like a pope was to be allowed access, There may be others allowed by Jewish law, but not to my knowledge.

Although I said the Beast enters the inner-sanctum mid-term of Tribulation, I have also considered the possibility that Satan takes over the body of the Beast at the time of the mortal wound which happens before Tribulation begins. However, when Satan edifies this body he does that at the time of the Abomination of Desoalion in sort of a cerimony. This would mean that although the body of the Beast that receives the mortal wound enters the inner-sanctum it is the spirit of Satan. This is just a possibility I am considering.

 

[John_8:32]

The Abomination of Desolation is comited when an " unclean thing " is taken into the inner-sanctum of th Temple. The Abomination of Desolation has happened more than once before, but will happen once more... and that is when the anti-christ - the Beast with the mortal wound enters the inner-sanctum of the Temple at mid point in Tribulation.

When an abomination is taken into the inner-sanctum God leaves. God leaving (the Holy Spirit departing) makes the inner-sanctum desolate - barren as a sand dune. The inner-sanctum is then no longer Holy until it has been cleansed - atonement for the abomination. By un-clean thing - I mean anything that is not supposed to be allowed into the inner-sanctum. the high priest was to be the only person allowed into the inner-sanctum and he had to be of the Jewish faith... not like a pope was to be allowed access, There may be others allowed by Jewish law, but not to my knowledge.

The qualifications were much more stringent than that, the High Priest had to be a Levite and a direct descendant of Aaron. This is what this passage is speaking to...

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change of the law also.

Jesus Christ was a Jew of the tribe of Judah...

Heb 7:13 For He onWhom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no one gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord hath risen out of Juda; with regard to which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priests.

Read the following passage carefully...

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: if that after the likeness of Melchisedec there rise another Priest,
Heb 7:16 Who hath become, not after the law of a fleshy commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For He testifieth, Thou art a Priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:18 For there is indeed a cancellation of the commandment going before on account of the weakness and unprofitableness ... .
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the superinduction of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh to God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not apart from an oath He was made Priest:
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made apart from an oath; but This with an oath by Him That said unto Him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a Priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedec
Heb 7:22 By so much hath Jesus become a surety of a better covenant.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because of their being hindered from continuing by death:
Heb 7:24 But this Priest, because He continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Teh Priesthood being changed to a Melchisidec Priesthood, the law concerning Priests had to be changed. Christ had the wrong DNA to be a Priest of the O.C. He did not have the DNA of Levi and Aaron, He had the DNA of Judah. Now, what I am saying is that to be an O.C. Priest, one had to be a direct descendant of Aaron and Christ was not. He came from another tribe, Judah, so by the O.C. Priesthood laws, He could not serve in any capacity in the Temple.

Although I said the Beast enters the inner-sanctum mid-term of Tribulation, I have also considered the possibility that Satan takes over the body of the Beast at the time of the mortal wound which happens before Tribulation begins. However, when Satan edifies this body he does that at the time of the Abomination of Desoalion in sort of a cerimony. This would mean that although the body of the Beast that receives the mortal wound enters the inner-sanctum it is the spirit of Satan. This is just a possibility I am considering.

I rather think it will be the False Prophet who commits the AoD...

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

 

[tgwprophet]

First, yes I did not list all the qualifiers since they will be forged anyway (remember, he too is a fake), but yes, the qualifiers are more stringent.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

There is a difference between the False Prophet and Satan. Above says he exalts himself above God... meaning he calles himself God.. not a prophet and where is he seated... in the temple. This one that does these things is Satan. Will Satan call himself a prophet or a god?

Then there is this... well... slight dilema to be deal with. The Beast whose nunmer is 666... that is Satan's number right? Well consider that the beast whose name equals 666 gives his body to Satan... this means Satan has just acquired that name as well and what is the number of that name? 666. Now when Satan emerges from the Temple and declares himself God then has an image of the Beast that had the mortal wound.. what name will this Image have? Certainly he could then be given the name he had before... the name of the Beast.. for Satan no longer needs it - for he has re-named himself... god. or not.. just speculation

Please examine throughly for I wrote this including consideration and speculation but fixed it to a firm foundation.. this is not like a house built from playing cards...a slight breeze and it collapses.

 

[Guestman]

ONE MAY WISH TO RE-READ THIS AS I EDITED IT OR ADDED MORE SINCE THIS ADDITION WAS POSTED.

Lets say it this way... The Beast is figure 1 Satan is figure 2 and the false peophet is figure 3

The Beast (1) is removed of his body and put into the image of the Beast...
Satan takes over the body of the Beast (2)
The false prophet (3) is the one with a Jewish connection... a seperate being and the connection that allows Satan access to the Temple and the inner-sanctum. Now then... are physical bodies thrown into the abyss or hell or perdition? Not necessarily... the image of the beast that has the life of the Beast, his body is no more needed to incarsorate him in hell than any person burned to death and whose ashes are scattered to the winds. .Ok, so consider the Beast being imprisoned in the " Image of the Beast " just as we are imprisoned in our bodies.

The Beast whose "life" is given to the Image of the Beast. now has a fixed position just as our body gives us a fixed position. Think of it.. if the Beast was not given a fixed position, such as we understand our bodies to be... then the problem your question poses would have more difficultly in understanding, not less.

The Image of the Beast...is given... Life. The Image of the Beast is of course, given the life OF the Beast, what other " life " would be valid? And why would there be two Beasts now who are actually one? How about another life - other than that of the Beast that received the mortal would be given to this Image of the Beast. How does it fit that the the Image of the Beast could be given life of anyone else - other than the Beast that received the mortal wound?

Now then we could debate... The Beast (1) The false messih - Satan, The false prophet (3) a high priest, BUT at this point, and for this dicussion it really doesn't matter, as we are focused on the ability to conatin a soul or spirit, not which one is which. Also you term "alive" must be remembered as a " no physical body " needed for being alive. When all are judged and it is over, and they are thrown into the lake of fire... do they " die " - nope - they are there... alive.... forever. Although this is the limited understanding we currently have... I have considered this aspect many times, and I often wonder that after Armageddon if we are not to be given new information as the eternity those in hell and then the lake of fire.. endure.

By the way... thanks for seeing how well thought out it was, JD, but I must decline the cudos as it only took a moment. The beast that was and is not and yet is ... is a topic i had been wrestling with for a couple decades, until the day I posted this..it came to me in a moment and extremely clear. So that glory goes to God.

There are so many holes in the League of Naions, Untied Nations and New world Order suppositions that it is difficult for me to see why anyone would think that. I did however give ten points to itemize for view and evaluation yet the UN ideas have not numbered their connnections.. please do.

How is it considered a "healing" that the UN is formed? 911 took down the twin towers... that could be considered a mortal wound... if one stretches their imagination... since then... Benladen has been terminated and the area of the twin towers made into a memorial, but NEVER was it claimed it was "healed" - and it is far superior to the aching hearts of people than the demise of the League of Nations. The incinerators Hitler used are even greater than the twin towers and they also would take presidence over the League of Nation as a mortal wounded thingy. And it certainly doesn't stop there.

One more bit of information concerning the League of Nations as fitting the Beast that was and is not and yet is. since its conceptin was in 1920 and it is now 2013 and Tribulation is 7 years and has yet to start... then, when Jesus said all these things will come to pass in one generation... ( MATT: 24 ) this would require now that one generation is 100 years...or more and that is not possible.

And so, if one now discludes the necessity of binding the League of Nations into that " one generation " THEN one MUST include ALL the world wide conquests and all the times a one world order was attempted or was just on the agenda, and so the " Beast that was and is not and yet is " is certainly written wrong, for it should read " te Beast that was and was again and was again and was not and was not again and again and again... See it does not matter if one was sucessful for none have been, it is only necessary to be inclusive if one had tried or even wanted to try to achieve world domination. And why did Alexander weep? (was it alexander?) - for there were no more worlds to conquer... ok get my meaning?

On another thought.. If Satan could destroy a prophecy... then he "just might" be able to destroy all prophecies. So consider this... The Anti-Chirst.. the one called the Beast that recives the mortal wound... if it were possible. he would kill the Two Witnesses. Now accordinngly, he cannot, he is not powerful enough to do so, if he could .. he certainly would and he would do it long before Satan takes over his body. The Two Witnesses die in Jerusalem and so, this Beast would kill them elsewhere..if he could kill them at all. Because Satan over-takes the body of the Beast which gets the mortal woulkd and he does this AT the Abomination of Desolation that occurs.... where?... Jesusalem ! - the Temple ! - The Inner-Sanctum !... When Satan emerges from there... guess what.. the Two Witnesses are there also. And one of Satan's first acts is to.... Killl them, for the Beast - the life of the Beast that received the mortal wound, who gave up his body to Satan, did not have the power to do that, it takes Satan himself to be able to kill the Two Witnesses. And why does Satan allow the Two Witnesses to remain undisturbed where they died for 3 1/2 days? Becasue of the earthquake?

Consider that when Satan edifies himself at the Abonination of Desolation, if the 1,260 days of the Two Witnesses were not near the end... then Satan could wai until the Two Witnesses leave Jerusalem or even Israel. But instead, killing the Two Witnesses to avoid them displaying other or more proof that they are of God - which would dismiss Satan...Satan's resolve is to only fulfill prophecy. This makes it necessary for those that place the end of the Two Witnesses at any other point in Tribulation to revise their understanding, and it affects more than just that concerning a time-line of prophecy.

I must say that you have the Scriptures confused, for your interjecting the word "generation" or speaking of a ' seven year tribulation' that some obtain from Ezekiel 39 (the "tribulation" is not a literal seven years but symbolic just as "Gog" is not literal but symbolic of Satan) has nothing to do with the symbolic "scarlet-colored wild beast" at Revelation 17, for even the time periods are not the same.

Revelation 17:16 establishes that the "ten horns" that comprise the "wild beast" (at Revelation 13:1, 2) means Satan's entire political system on earth during the "Lord's day" that began in 1914 with Jesus enthronement as king of God's kingdom (Rev 6:2), with the number ten meaning earthly completeness.(as seen in Exodus regarding the "ten plagues", as well as the "Ten Words" at Ex 34:28)

The "ten horns" at Revelation 17 or all political governments from 1914 onward are noted as receiving "authority as kings one hour with the (scarlet-colored) wild beast, giv(ing) their power and authority to the "(scarlet-colored) wild beast."(Rev 17:12, 13) These "ten horns" parallel with the "ten kings" seen at Daniel 7:24, which says that with the dissolution of the Roman Empire (in 476 C.E.), that "out of that kingdom there are ten kings that will rise up."

This "scarlet-colored wild beast" is seen as being ridden upon by a "woman", a "harlot", that is identified as Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion.(Rev 17:5) Thus, this political "image" (Rev 13:14) that would represent the political interests of the nations on the earth, came into existence as the League of Nations in 1920, becoming as "was", but with the outbreak of World War II on September 1, 1939, vanished, becoming as "is not".

It lay in a death-like "abyss" for about 6 years, though in 1941, the prime minister of Great Britain, Winston Churchill, held secret talks with President Franklin Roosevelt of the United States on board a ship in the Atlantic, making a joint declaration about "their hopes for a better future for the world" and "the establishment of a wider and permanent system of general security."

The following year (1942) in Washington D.C., 26 nations subscribed to this Anglo-American proposal in what was called the "Declaration by United Nations". Hence, some three years later, after the end of World War II, on October 24, 1945, the "scarlet-colored wild beast" was revived, ' ascending out of the abyss' of inactivity as the United Nations.

However, it need be noted that whereas the "first wild beast" (Rev 13:12b) or Satan's entire political arrangement on earth had upon its "heads blasphemous names", the "scarlet-colored wild beast", the United Nations, is seen as being "full of blasphemous names."(Rev 17:3b) Why the difference ?

Though Satan's political "wild beast" blasphemes Jehovah God by their spirit of nationalistic independence, the United Nations has been (and still is) put forward as "the "political expression of the kingdom of God on earth." It is looked to as the means to bring peace to the earth, supplanting God's kingdom (Matt 6:10) by the churches who say they represent God. This is truly blasphemy !

 

[tgwprophet]

I guess you can make all of your summations about what is literal and what is not literal... however, time will give validity. I am un-sure where you come up with Gog as Satan, or the UN - (which will probably have its place and power absorbed by the NWO - for if not...then a time would come where they would be in conflict with one another).

I achieved a 7 year period of Tribulation by the use of simple math. I achieved the understanding that all prophecies concering events transpiring in Revelation - which includes Tribulation as occuring in one generation through Scriptture that Jesus gave stating all these things will come to pass in one generation. Your conclusions are based on your idea of what is literal and what is symbolic. I will say this to your post... IF Satan was God...he would not need MaGog for help and would not be defeated at that battle. For Satan's campaign is only defeated after the Jews Accept Jesus and that occurs at Armageddon where there is no turning back. Yet Gog and MaGog come against Israel and they ARE defeated and turned back meaning retreating.. but again.. there is no retreating at Armageddon. And you think I am confused?

But alas, keep your opinion if you must.. this is my tail.. and I am waggin' it.

 

[Guestman]

It is unmistakable that that there are a wide range of views on who "the scarlet-colored wild beast" is, but in reality, there can be only one correct understanding, for Jesus said that "a house divided against itself cannot stand."(Matt 12:25) Our Creator, Jehovah God, had Revelation written down with just one meaning, not several. Otherwise, he would have a "divided house." The churches are a multitude of division, but not God's people.

The apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "Now I exhort you, brother, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought."(1 Cor 1:10) He further said that "God is a God not of disorder, but of peace."(1 Cor 14:33) Just as only one particular set of numbers will unlock a safe, so likewise there is only one true meaning to who the "scarlet-colored wild beast" is as well as the rest of Revelation.

Only when a person recognizes that the "wild beast" at Revelation 13:1, 2 is Satan's complete political system, under which all political governments (the "ten horns") are umbrellaed, can they begin to discern what "the scarlet-colored wild beast" is that is also called "an image" (Rev 13:14) of the "wild beast".

As asked before, What organization mirrors the political governments of the world that is like its "image" ? What represents the political interests of the nations more clearly ? Nothing more concise than now the United Nations, which succeeded the League of Nations as a so-called peacekeeping organization.

It takes more than "simple math" to understand the Bible. Concerning God's kingdom, Jesus told his genuine disciples: "To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom, but to those people (or everyone else) it is not granted.......because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it."(Matt 13:11, 13)

Hence, the vast majority of mankind "look in vain", with the churches as lost as all others of the "world". Since holy spirit wrote the Bible, it take Jehovah's holy spirit to unveil it through his people.

 

[tgwprophet]

Hi Guestman... you wrote: " Only when a person recognizes that the "wild beast" at Revelation 13:1, 2 is Satan's complete political system, under which all political governments (the "ten horns") are umbrellaed, can they begin to discern what "the scarlet-colored wild beast" is that is also called "an image" (Rev 13:14) of the "wild beast". " -- that is your opinion concerning the image of the Beast. I consider your image no more than a mirage, for the real image of the Beast will be given a real life.

Consider that when ever someone disputes what I posted concerning this topic all I do is escentially re-post the information I already posted, BECAUSE that information was sufficient. Can one consider what I posred concerning the Beast/Satan and Image of the Beast as an opinion? YES - certainly, at least at this time, however...later... nope. What are my chances of being wrong here? ( about .0001 - maybe...and that may allow too much room for error.) But that is my tail.. and I am waggin' it.


In Revelation 13 it tells the Beast that received the wound ( not the Image of the Beast ) had a man's name anf his number is 666.... now consider that 666 is the number of SATAN and SATAN is NOT a KINGDOM - he is an individual... a person.

Now, IF the Image of the Beast had the number 666... then Revelation 13 would conclude with the "Let him that hath understanding count The Image of the Beast..." But instead it says "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast... "

These last two paragraqphs strenghtens my position on the Beast that was and is not and yet is... being Satan.

 

[Guestman]

It is important to note that the "image" of the "wild beast"(Rev 13:14) comes into existence through the efforts of the political "wild beast" that has "two horns like a lamb" (Rev 13:11), the Anglo-American world power, that has been in existence for almost 100 years.

This "wild beast" is set off by itself as having the authority equal to the "first wild beast" (Rev 13:12) or all political governments existing during the "Lord's day" that began in 1914. The "two horned wild beast" sets the tone for the rest of the world, dictating policy that impacts all other political governments on the earth, including forming the League of Nations (that went defunct in 1939) and later the United Nations that ascended "out of the abyss" in 1945.

In conjunction with this, the United Nations as the "scarlet-colored wild beast" also is the force that will bring the total annihilation to Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, stripping her as a result of its "hate" for this false religious "harlot", making her "devastated and naked" and then finishing her off completely by ' eating up her fleshy parts and completely burning her with fire.' (Rev 17:16)

Thus, her destruction will come through the United Nations, with all the political governments on earth, the "ten horns", agreeing with the "one thought by giving their kingdom over to the (scarlet-colored) wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished."(Rev 17:17)

At Revelation 19, there is now the sound of applause, for it says that a "great crowd" in heaven said: "Praise Jah, you people ! The salvation and the glory and the power belong to our God, because his judgment are true and righteous. For he has executed judgment upon the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he has avenged the blood of his slaves at her hand."(Rev 19:1, 2)

Though the destruction of the false religious "harlot" was accomplished through the political "scarlet-colored wild beast", the United Nations, it originated with Jehovah God by implanting his "thought" into the minds of the United Nations.(Rev 17:17a)

Now that false religion is gone forever, though "the smoke from her goes on ascending forever and ever" (in which she will never be forgotten as a wicked false religious harlot by those who love Jehovah), Jehovah God now sets his sights on the political "wild beast" and its "image", inviting "all the birds of heaven....to the great evening meal of God" (Rev 19:17), so that they can feed on "the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men....of horses.....of those seated upon them....of free men as well as of slaves and of small ones and great."(Rev 19:18)

Thence, Jesus Christ and his angelic army come forth to destroy all the political elements (Rev 19:11-16; Matt 24:29-31), whereby Revelation 19:19 says that "the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet (the Anglo-American dual world power, acting like a prophet to the rest of the world) that performed in front of it signs (Rev 13:13) with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast (giving it a political "hand" of support, Rev 13:16) and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur."(Rev 19:20)

 

[tgwprophet]

Well there is allot of history to dig up and try to fit into endtime prophecy and I see in another tread directed at the 8 Beasts and that there is so much history, many are fumbling over each other, poking holes into one another's understanding. But the Two Witnesses will be revealing the Beast that is Satan and it will not be an organiztion, government or other... it will be an individual whose number is 666.

Had God's Word said; Let him who hath understanding count the number of the Beast for it is the number of a Kingdom, Government, Wolrd Organization or other, then I could agree. But, God's Word clearly states it is the number of a man.

Satan's EGO is such that he will exhalt himself as a god.

Is 666 the number of a kingdom? If it is the number of a Kingdom, then please tell me what Satan's number is.

Is 666 the number of Satan? Who thinks Satan will desire to have "lesser" members of his horde equal him in name?

God's Word says 666 is the number of Satan/man/individual
Satan will walk as a man...look as a man and talk as a man, or does one think
a huge lizard like being will "poof" unto the earth and be given control?