(The Beast) & (The Two Witnesses) Will Be On This Earth Together For 3.5 Years (Then Cometh The End)

[William Barton]

WPM suggested:
<It is not chronological>
<scripture forbids extra age>

Your opinion, offered with no scriptural support.

 

[amigo de christo]

IMO:
Jesus will build the temple, see Acts 15:15-18. The temple area contained more than just the Holy place.

There is no temple in the new heavens and earth (Revelation 22:22).

Try Google "blood moon" for a picture, it's a lunar eclipse. Jesus died during a blood moon (April 3, AD33 ), and Jesus will return during a blood moon (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12).

The temple is as you wrote . IT IS GOD and THE LAMB . and by the preaching of the gospel
and those who do believe are they added in stone by stone .
The only one true temple is and will be The one not made by hands but rather IS GOD AND THE LAMB . THE TRUE and HEAVENLY
ONE . THE TRUE and heavenly JERUSALEM that is above and by which each true believer IN CHRIST
is c onnected to by THE SPIRIT .
IF , and i do mean IF they even do build another temple made by hands , YOU CAN BET its gonna be
the inclusive religoin that rides high over it . THEY are merging . they are merging
all by means of a religoin they see as love and as loving , a reli goin that ALL the false religoins as well
as the DECIEVED withn christendom will b elieve t obe OF GOD and IS his plan for peace .
ONLY , nope . No sir . NOT OF GOD but of satan and man is this peace , is this love , NOT OF GOD .
Just a reminder that cursed is he whos e hopes be in men
But blessed is he whose HOPE BE IN G OD , THUS IN HIS CHRIST . for ever and ever amen .

 

[amigo de christo]

WPM suggested:
<It is not chronological> because you said so, no Scripture support
<scripture forbids extra age> because you said so, no Scripture support

Senor barton . How are you doing .
Always remember the inclusive god is NOT GOD and his ecumeincal harlot is but a harlot who has poured her cup
of abominatial inclusive intefaith ecumeinalism unto the nations , leaders , protestant and catholic realm
as well as unto all false religoins .
And while they often do say , A LOT , GOD IS LOVE , well GOD IS LOVE , only their love
be the love of a harlot and NOT GOD .

 

[William Barton]

Lol. Where is your corroboration for you Premil opinion of Rev 20?

o. Revelation 20:2-3 "thousand years" mentioned twice.
o. Revelation 20:4 "thousand years" mentioned once.
o. Revelation 20:5. "thousand years " mentioned once
o Revelation 20:7 "thousand years" mentioned once..

That is FIVE TIMES.

"Thousand years" is by DEFINITION a "millennium."

 

[Truth7t7]

That Jesus will metaphorically rule with a rod of iron means that He is not going to allow the governments of the nations of the world to rule in an evil manner.

Your Claims Continue To Be "False"

It clearly shows that the Lord is going to destroy the unsaved wicked at his return, just as a Potter destroys his unwanted vessels

Will Jesus Rule With A "Rod Of Iron" Being A King's Scepter, During A Millennium As Many Teach?​

Their deception is in the interpretation of "Rod Of Iron"?

Many falsely believe and teach its a Kings (Ruling Scepter) "Wrong"!

A "Rod Of Iron" is a "Tool Of Destruction" that a Potter destroys clay vessels with

Jesus returns and destroy's the wicked like a Potter destroy's his vessels with a "Rod Of Iron" its that simple

Sad part is, many have been clearly shown this truth several times, and they continue to teach error

The "Rod Of Iron" is a "Tool Of Destruction" not a "Kings Scepter" as many falsely believe and teach

Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[William Barton]

WPM suggested:
<It is not chronological>
<scripture forbids extra age>
<because you said so, no Scripture support>

"...They came to life and ruled with Christ and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4)

"Then I saw a *new heaven and a new earth,* for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more." (Revelation 21:1)

"...death shall be no more..." (Revelation 21:4)

 

[amigo de christo]

1000 years = millennium
It's in the Book

you know what else in the BOOK . all unbelievers shall have their part in the LAKE OF FIRE .
lets remember that the next time someone comes preaching ecumeincal interfaith .
And do remember all who loved and made a lie , the abominable . SO yeah if anyones jesus honors any and i do mean ANY SIN
no matter how poltically correct that sin might seem , LAKE OF FIRE for those .
FOR had they TRULY LOVED , TRULY BELEIVED JESUS , well they had not tried to recreate an image of jesus
that accepts sins , and even UNBELEIF . ONLY THE DEVIL would preach such a jesus . seems many love that jesus too .
NOT THIS SHEEP . Now on those feet and to the trenches .

 

[William Barton]

Do you have other Scripture to support your claims?

Sure:
"...and when the *thousand years* are ended..." (Revelation 20:7)

 

[ewq1938]

Will Jesus Rule With A "Rod Of Iron" Being A King's Scepter, During A Millennium As Many Teach?​

Their deception is in the interpretation of "Rod Of Iron"?

Many falsely believe and teach its a Kings (Ruling Scepter) "Wrong"!

You don't undertand it.

Ruling with a rod of iron is also about caring for the people:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


RULE

G4165
poimaino
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

G4165
poimaino
Thayer Definition:
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
1a) to rule, govern
1a1) of rulers
1a2) to furnish pasture for food
1a3) to nourish
1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901

There is nothing violent about poimaino.


Barnes:

As the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers - The ironic here is that of the vessel of a potter - a fragile vessel of clay - struck with a rod of iron and broken into fragments. That is, as applied to the nations, there would be no power to oppose His rule; the enemies of his government would be destroyed. Instead of remaining firm and compacted together, they would be broken like the clay vessel of a potter when struck with a rod of iron.

The notion of breaking a nation or kingdom up so it is powerless is nothing new in scripture:

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


The kingdom of God which Christ rules will break up the existing kingdoms of the nations leaving the people powerless to rebel. This is when the reign of the rod of iron over these nations takes place for a thousand years.

There is another use of a vessel being destroyed and it is not about killing people but breaking up an organization of people who rebel against God:

Isa 30:12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
Isa 30:13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
Isa 30:14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.

The metaphor of a vessel being broken is never about individuals being killed. God didn't kill every Jew. But their rebellion and sin against him caused the demise of their chosen status, even the covenant between them and God. Fast forward to the Millennium and again those who rebel against Christ shall have their wicked organizations broken up, leaving them powerless and unable to organize against Christ during this period of TIME of the reign/rule with a rod of iron. They live to be reigned over. When God allows satan to deceive them, then a brief and failed rebellion occurs and they are killed and judged and are no more forever.

Barnes:

As the breaking of the potter’s vessel - That is, as an earthen, fragile vessel, which is easily dashed to pieces. The image here is all drawn from the bursting forth, or the complete ruin of the swelling wall; but the sense is, that the Jewish republic would be entirely broken, scattered, demolished.

 

[William Barton]

Senor barton . How are you doing .
Always remember the inclusive god is NOT GOD and his ecumeincal harlot is but a harlot who has poured her cup
of abominatial inclusive intefaith ecumeinalism unto the nations , leaders , protestant and catholic realm
as well as unto all false religoins .
And while they often do say , A LOT , GOD IS LOVE , well GOD IS LOVE , only their love
be the love of a harlot and NOT GOD .

"Whore of Babylon" was commonly thought to be Rome, or in modern times thought to be the Catholic Church.

I would rather say "whore of Babylon" refers to the rebuilt city of Babylon. It was persued by Saddam Hussein, until U.S. forces killed him, put him in a sack, and threw him overboard the ship, after receiving last rites by a Muslim Cleric. See Revelation chapter 18.

 

[Truth7t7]

You don't undertand it.

Ruling with a rod of iron is also about caring for the people:

Your Claim Is "False", Not To Be Taken Seriously

Will Jesus Rule With A "Rod Of Iron" Being A King's Scepter, During A Millennium As Many Teach?​

Their deception is in the interpretation of "Rod Of Iron"?

Many falsely believe and teach its a Kings (Ruling Scepter) "Wrong"!

A "Rod Of Iron" is a "Tool Of Destruction" that a Potter destroys clay vessels with

Jesus returns and destroy's the wicked like a Potter destroy's his vessels with a "Rod Of Iron" its that simple

Sad part is, many have been clearly shown this truth several times, and they continue to teach error

The "Rod Of Iron" is a "Tool Of Destruction" not a "Kings Scepter" as many falsely believe and teach

Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[William Barton]

IM0:
"Rod of iron" (Revelation 9:25) reflects Psalm 2:9, and indicates "absolute authority."

 

[WPM]

Sure:
"...and when the *thousand years* are ended..." (Revelation 20:7)

This shows how bereft Premillennialism is of biblical corroboration. You support your opinion of Revelation 20 with your opinion of Revelation 20. That is ridiculous. You obviously have nothing in the rest of Scripture to support your error.

Let us put your opinion of Revelation 20 to the test then.

• Where else in Scripture is a thousand years mentioned after the second coming?
• Where in Scripture (including Rev 20) is Jesus shown to be on a millennial earth?
• Where else in Scripture is the binding of Satan?
• Where else in Scripture are the 2 future resurrections?
• Where else in Scripture are the 2 future judgments?
• Where else in Scripture is the release of Satan and an unparalleled global uprising 1,000 years after the second coming?

 

[WPM]

IM0:
"Rod of iron" (Revelation 9:25) reflects Psalm 2:9, and indicates "absolute authority."

The coming of Christ is not to high-five sin and mollycoddle sinners. It is to judge sinners and banish sin from the earth forever. Premil ushers countless mortal rebels unto the new earth, but Scripture shows they are all totally destroyed. The new earth is incorrupt! Only the incorrupt can possess it. Your argument conflicts with clear and repeated Scripture.

Revelation 2:25-27 says, “that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule (poimaino) them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be ‘broken to shivers’ (suntribo): even as I received of my Father.”

Why do you ignore the crucial words suntribo (to break to shivers) in Revelation 2:25-27 and patasso (to smite) in Revelation 19:15?

The same Shepherd who will comfort His sheep (the elect) will also destroy the goats (the wicked). This teaching is taken from Psalm 2:1-12. See what it is saying: “Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.Thou shalt break (ra` a`) them with a rod of iron; ‘thou shalt dash them in pieces’ (naphats) like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”

Why do you also ignore the Hebrew here? The Hebrew word ra` a` means to spoil: literally, by breaking to pieces; figuratively, to make (or be) good for nothing. The Hebrew word naphats here derives from a primitive root; to dash to pieces, or scatter.

The picture here is of a Shepherd with a rod. However, this is NO ordinary Shepherd with NO ordinary rod. The Shepherd here is Christ, and He is coming in His wrath at the end of this age to deal with the wicked thus the significance of the rod of iron. He is a jealous Shepherd who is finally coming to destroy those that have rejected Him. The shepherding is clearly associated with the FINAL separation.

There is no sense or mention of, or allowance for, survivors, as you imagine. All the wicked are destroyed. There is no one left to inherit this supposed future millennium full of sin and sinners, dying and crying, decay and disease.

The Lord encounters only 2 types of people when He comes – saved or lost, sheep or goats. The sheep enter into their eternal inheritance; the goats receive their eternal punishment. Nothing could be simpler. You invent some 3rd group of humans that are too righteous to be destroyed at the second coming, yet too wicked to be rescued, yet Premil argue among themselves who they actually are. The reality is: they don't exist.

Nowhere in any of these passages is there any insinuation of a 1,000 years shepherding (or ruling) over the nations -as Premil alleges. What is more, Nowhere in Rev 20 is there any mention of (1) a rod of iron, (2) Christ on earth, (3) and therefore Christ ruling on earth with a rod of iron for 1,000 years. You will only find that in the Premil textbooks.

 

[WPM]

o. Revelation 20:2-3 "thousand years" mentioned twice.
o. Revelation 20:4 "thousand years" mentioned once.
o. Revelation 20:5. "thousand years " mentioned once
o Revelation 20:7 "thousand years" mentioned once..

That is FIVE TIMES.

"Thousand years" is by DEFINITION a "millennium."

It doesn't matter how many times a symbol is presented in Scripture it is still symbolic. You have no other Scripture to support your opinion of Revelation 20.

I am seeing no corroboration. That is because Premil does not rely on corroboration. When you press them for literal biblical support for their theory of Revelation 20 they normally respond: "Revelation 20 says." Premils interpret the whole of Scripture in the light of their view of Revelation 20 instead of interpreting Revelation 20 in the light of the whole of Scripture. This is faulty and dangerous hermeneutics! Revelation 20 cannot corroborate their view of Revelation 20. Amils on the other hand tend to use the biblical premise "what saith the Scripture."

Premil is totally preoccupied with, and dependent upon, Revelation 20. It interprets the rest of Scripture in the light of its opinion of one lone highly-debated chapter located in the most figurative and obscure book in the Bible. All end-time Scripture is viewed through the lens of Revelation 20. This is not a very wise way to establish any truth or doctrine.

 

[Douggg]

You don't undertand it.

Ruling with a rod of iron is also about caring for the people:

Correct.

 

[William Barton]

It doesn't matter how many times a symbol is presented in Scripture it is still symbolic.

First the rapture isn't there, now it is there (five times) but it is symbolic.

How about this:
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord (1Thessalonians 4:16-17). Is that symbolic too?

And this:
"Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here!" And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them." (Revelation 11:12). Is that symbolic too?

 

[WPM]

How about this:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1Thessalonians 4:16-17)

Is that symbolic too?

I Thessalonians 4:15-5:5: “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”

This is the end! Jesus comes on the “day of the Lord” as a “thief in the night.” He rescues His people, but equally His appearing sees the “sudden” and total “destruction” of the wicked: “they shall not escape.”

 

[William Barton]

It doesn't matter how many times a symbol is presented in Scripture it is still symbolic. You have no other Scripture to support your opinion of Revelation 20.

I am seeing no corroboration. That is because Premil does not rely on corroboration. When you press them for literal biblical support for their theory of Revelation 20 they normally respond: "Revelation 20 says." Premils interpret the whole of Scripture in the light of their view of Revelation 20 instead of interpreting Revelation 20 in the light of the whole of Scripture. This is faulty and dangerous hermeneutics! Revelation 20 cannot corroborate their view of Revelation 20. Amils on the other hand tend to use the biblical premise "what saith the Scripture."

Premil is totally preoccupied with, and dependent upon, Revelation 20. It interprets the rest of Scripture in the light of its opinion of one lone highly-debated chapter located in the most figurative and obscure book in the Bible. All end-time Scripture is viewed through the lens of Revelation 20. This is not a very wise way to establish any truth or doctrine.

You asked for support, and I gave two citations. In fact the pre-millennial rapture is mentioned SEVEN times in the Bible.

How about this:
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord (1Thessalonians 4:16-17). Is that symbolic too?

And this:
"Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here!" And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them." (Revelation 11:12). Is that symbolic too?

BTW calling these verses symbolic, with no support, is begging the question (which is a logical fallacy).