The Bible puts us at a Crossroads

[stunnedbygrace]

Well I couldn't find the post, but yes, I knew without seeing it that you would have presented the option of humility also, because you are a broken record and the needle is stuck on humility, over and over again.

I kind of marvel over the fact that he always misses that part. Does he not read it or does it just not register? I don't know.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes. That is what the statement that you have to be either A.) Sinless, or B.) A pretender, does. It takes away the possibility of humility. (It doesn't really take it away, because some men will still be humble and walk in truth, even if told they don't have that choice!

Take the example of the men in the temple. The one man said, have mercy on me, a sinner. He was not the choice A, sinless, and he fully admitted he wasn't. Does that make him choice B, a pretender? No. Because his honesty KEPT him from being choice B, a pretender. So if He wasn't A or B, how can someone say they are the only two options??

 

[stunnedbygrace]

He rather strikes me as one of those in school who received the test from the teacher, who said: READ ALL OF THE DIRECTIONS BEFORE YOU BEGIN. The directions said: Put an "A" at the top of your test and circle it. Then turn your test over, you are done and have received an A.

And he was the one who labored through the whole test!

I'm not trying to poke fun at him, but
This really is how he seems to me...

 

[Episkopos]

Well I couldn't find the post, but yes, I knew without seeing it that you would have presented the option of humility also, because you are a broken record and the needle is stuck on humility, over and over again.

I kind of marvel over the fact that he always misses that part. Does he not read it or does it just not register? I don't know.

Post #5 last sentence (OK paragraph ). I wrote...

"OR....we can be wise and claim nothing but keep an open mind in all honesty...refusing to add a religious certainty to our ways. We can lay hold on humility and preserve the fear of the Lord. Faith then for these wise ones is to be able to esteem that others have progressed farther than we have. But we don't need to compare ourselves with others. We need to go to God."

 

[Episkopos]

He rather strikes me as one of those in school who received the test from the teacher, who said: READ ALL OF THE DIRECTIONS BEFORE YOU BEGIN. The directions said: Put an "A" at the top of your test and circle it. Then turn your test over, you are done and have received an A.

And he was the one who labored through the whole test!

I'm not trying to poke fun at him, but
This really is how he seems to me...

Or didn't labour at all... A lot of projecting and passive aggressive behaviour.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Tsk! See how epi slyly tried to sneak that entire paragraph in?? What a car salesman he is!! Very crafty!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You should stop trying to sneak in entire paragraphs!!

 

[Episkopos]

Tsk! See how epi slyly tried to sneak that entire paragraph in?? What a car salesman he is!! Very crafty!

...but harmless as a dove!

 

[charity]

'For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,
but by love serve one another.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this;
"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
But if ye bite and devour one another,
take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.'
(Galatians 5:13-15)

Praise God!

 

[charity]

'Now therefore fear the LORD,
and serve Him in sincerity and in truth:
and put away the gods which your fathers served
on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt;
and serve ye the LORD.
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,
choose you this day whom ye will serve;
whether the gods which your fathers served
that were on the other side of the flood,
or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell:
but as for me and my house,
we will serve the LORD.'
(Joshua 24:14)

Praise God!

 

[charity]

'If we say that we have no sin,
we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins,
He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned,
we make Him a liar,
and His word is not in us.'
(1 John 1:8-10)

Praise God!

 

[charity]

'Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
but yield yourselves unto God,
as those that are alive from the dead,
and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you:
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.​

What then?

shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? ​

God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?​

But God be thanked,

that ye were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.​

Being then made free from sin,
ye became the servants of righteousness.

I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh:
for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity;
even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed?
for the end of those things is death.​

But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God,
ye have your fruit unto holiness,
and the end everlasting life.

For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.'​

(Romans 6:11-23)

Praise His Holy Name!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I gave three options not two. Humility gives us a way out.


But a dishonest person would make my posts to sound that way...either from a basic dishonesty or a lack of reading skills. A willful misrepresentation? How willful is that blindness?

The father of lies is ever busy to deceive and denigrate the truth. People obey him, either from their own vindictiveness or in ignorance...by being deceived by their own bents...but the result is the same.

Can you say ...hostility to the truth?

does whatsoever is born of God overcome the world(and sin)? Yes or no?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

does whatsoever is born of God overcome the world(and sin)? Yes or no?

Does that verse negate dozens upon dozens of warnings? Yes or no?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Does that verse negate dozens upon dozens of warnings? Yes or no?

For that which is NOT “whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world (and sin)” ...no it doesn’t negate all those warnings and urging to be born of the Spirit. “Work it out with fear and trembling”. God points at a sure place to anchor...it is not a wobbly uncertain foundation to anchor but HE said anchor in Him, when all else most definitely fails and does not endure. What I hear, if I am being honest, is claiming God’s power to overcome sin and be Holy...but this same (which I most definitely agree God is power)...has a person flopping in and out, in and out with unstableness...questioning the strength to endure. If by nature it is God’s strength, God said His strength endures ALL things not just sin, but all things. Is God a liar? Which is it: power to overcome sin and endures? If so then just say: God’s power overcomes sin and endures to the finish, growing and increasing because God gives the increase. Just that alone in saying His power to endure to the finish is questionable... That sends up alarms that it is anchored where it shouldn’t be which is in man and not God. Man is questionable. Not God. many here seem to agree that “God is uncertainty” ...it is man which is uncertainty. If you want to consider me as not that which is born of God...I don’t mind(you may be right). If you doubt anything I share...I’m not offended. BUT regardless of what you think of any other ...you can not say God lies in He said: whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world (and sin). His urging is removing the “stony heart” and being born again of the Spirit and God gives the increase. You want to anchor in epi or Amadeus saying man pushes man’s way in to different levels of holiness ...that is on them. Poking in and out with floundering “earning” then “removed”. Maybe really ask yourself why every time God alone is mentioned ...God is deflected from? ...unless it comes to claiming...what making that which is crucified already perfect? Over and over God says He is sufficient in all things. It is not poking in and out, tossed to and fro and up and down; every which way the waves roll, but He said ...anchor in Him and He doesn’t move when all else comes down. God said He is a sure place...should His Head rest on something, anything where the foundation is unstable. HE is the foundation! (IMO) others should be pointing relentlessly at God and telling you over and over to anchor in God and He Will not fail or come short or not endure when all else does. Encouraged to be born of God and His Spirit to have peace and certainty on a solid foundation. “Whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world (and sin)”...God is not unstable...as being told to you. That which is born of flesh is flesh and returns to dust. That which is born of God is Spirit. That which is Born of God overcomes the flesh and IS endurance. Question is...has one been born of God? Or still relying on something incredibly unstable and unpredictable: Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

“...thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.”
“...a New Creature born of God.” Paul knew who was in him was greater..and lived without the fear of what man could do to him. Paul knew who Paul belonged to and was not afraid of death because Paul knew God is stable when man is not stable. (Romans 8:37-39). Paul wrestling was ...what is going on here, in others wanting to anchor in men.

 

[farouk]

'If we say that we have no sin,
we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins,
He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned,
we make Him a liar,
and His word is not in us.'
(1 John 1:8-10)

Praise God!

Such a lot in that small First Epistle of John! it seems to contain in a pithy way many of the great themes of Christian doctrine surrounding the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Job 14:18-19
And surely the mountain falling cometh to nought, and the rock is removed out of his place. [19] The waters wear the stones: thou washest away the things which grow out of the dust of the earth; and thou destroyest the hope of man.

Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did ; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Psalm 92:13-15 Those that be planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God. [14] They shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing; [15] To shew that the Lord is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.

“...there is no unrighteousness IN Him” ... “whatsoever is Born of God overcomes the World.” ...there is no unrighteousness in Him. ...can anyone say anything in or born of Him is unrighteousness?
2 Corinthians 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
...Seek first his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you,
2 Peter 3:11-18 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, [12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? [13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. [14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.(His righteousnes remains forever) [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. [17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[farouk]

Job 14:18-19
And surely the mountain falling cometh to nought, and the rock is removed out of his place. [19] The waters wear the stones: thou washest away the things which grow out of the dust of the earth; and thou destroyest the hope of man.

Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did ; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Psalm 92:13-15 Those that be planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God. [14] They shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing; [15] To shew that the Lord is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.

“...there is no unrighteousness IN Him” ... “whatsoever is Born of God overcomes the World.” ...there is no unrighteousness in Him. ...can anyone say anything in or born of Him is unrighteousness?
2 Corinthians 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
...Seek first his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you,
2 Peter 3:11-18 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, [12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? [13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. [14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.(His righteousnes remains forever) [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. [17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

It's sometimes not remembered that the law was changed (Hebrews 7.12) and what we now have is indeed better than the law (Hebrews 7.19).

 

[marks]

I don't know how to answer you. Is English your first language? You seem to not follow it as facilely as a nativeborn.

I will try one more time. In your A and your B above, why are you saying you must be one or the other...? If you are not A, do not pretend or claim to be.

Yes English is my first language, and what in the world does that have to do with anything?? "Oh dull of understanding . . ." ?

And I also will try again.

Either we enter into Christ and freedom from sin entirely...or else we pretend to do so and add a new layer of sin in our lives.

Either . . . you enter into Christ, and into sinlessness, or you are a pretender, having added a new layer of sin. That is according to episkopos' doctrine. So my question is, if you agree with his statement, Which are you? Are you sinless? Or a pretender?

Does that help?

This doctrine does not reflect what I find in the Bible. I don't expect a valid answer because I don't think it's a valid question. It's given to illustrate the invalidity of this doctrine.

Anyone who answers according to what they know to be true will have to claim hypocrisy, "I'm a pretender, twice the son of hell!" That's the only option given. Others may claim to have no sin, to live sinless lives. I know what I've seen on this forum, and I wouldn't believe such claims myself.

Either claim to be sinless, or be branded hypocrit. There's your choice!

But God gives a different Gospel in His Word.

Much love!

 

[charity]

'Let no man beguile you of your reward
.. in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels,
.... intruding into those things which he hath not seen,
...... vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
And not holding the Head,
.. from which all the body by joints and bands
.... having nourishment ministered, and knit together,
...... increaseth with the increase of God.
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world,
.. why, as though living in the world,
.... are ye subject to ordinances,
...... (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using )
........ after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom
.. in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body;
.... not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.'
(Colossians 2:18-23)

Praise God!