The Bible

[Nomad]

Notice He sid, " the words that He spoke". not the words that Paul spkoe, or David. or moses or Jeremiah,

So the words of Paul, David, Moses and Jeremiah are not God-breathed as The Apostle Paul says in 2 Timothy 3:16? Did not Jesus say that the Scriptures bear witness about himself? Will not this Scriptural witness stand as a testimony against unbelievers on the Day of Judgment?

Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Joh 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

I'm afraid that the Scripture haters on this board are grasping at straws at this point. It's sad to watch professing believers attack their Master's word so vociferously and with such sustained contempt. It's downright shameful.

Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psa 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

 

[mjrhealth]

So the words of Paul, David, Moses and Jeremiah are not God-breathed as The Apostle Paul says in 2 Timothy 3:16? Did not Jesus say that the Scriptures bear witness about himself? Will not this Scriptural witness stand as a testimony against unbelievers on the Day of Judgment?

Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life;

and it is they that bear witness about me,

Joh 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

I'm afraid that the Scripture haters on this board are grasping at straws at this point. It's sad to watch professing believers attack their Master's word so vociferously and with such sustained contempt. It's downright shameful.

Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psa 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

This is the part that all christians miss. They just never make it to Christ. Did you not read the scriputure you quoted, how it cannot bring you life, is it nor written in the bible, that the letter killeth, do you not believe what you read. how long is Jesus going to have to knock on your door before you let Him in, does the scripture you quoted say it testifies of Him, so now that you know He is alive and always with you, what is it going to take for you to let Him teach you, waht is it going to take for you all to sit at His feet and learn from Him. You say I am a scripture hater, yet all i say is wrtten in the bible, why dont you believe it.

You can bury me alone in a mine, ill still have Jesus, you can send me to mars alone in a space ship ill still have Jesus, you can put me in a diving bell at the bottom of the deapest ocean and II will still have Jesus, and It is not impossibe for Him to teach me no matter where I am, with or without a bible.

In His Love

 

[Nomad]

. . .is it nor written in the bible, that the letter killeth. . .

The 'letter' in your proof-text refers to the Mosaic/Old Covenant carved on tablets of stone. Paul calls this the ministry of death because the Law, which says what should and should not be done, can only condemn and kill. There's no grace in the bare Law. It communicates no power for obedience. There's only judgment and condemnation.

The 'spirit' is a reference to the New Covenant and the Gospel which communicates grace, mercy and forgiveness, and is endowed with the power to impart eternal life. The 'letter' refers to the Old Covenant Law written in stone. It is not a reference to 'Scripture' in any, way, shape or form.

You really need to pay attention to context when choosing your proof-texts. Here's your text in context. Read carefully. Notice how the entire chapter concerns only the difference between the Old and New covenants. Scripture simply is not addressed.

2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God,
2Co 3:6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,
2Co 3:8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?
2Co 3:9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.
2Co 3:10 Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it.
2Co 3:11 For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
2Co 3:12 Since we have such a hope, we are very bold,
2Co 3:13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.
2Co 3:14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
2Co 3:15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.
2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

 

[TexUs]

Funnt that you should say all that, if it was from God, then there wpuld be no confusion, no arguing no descent.

Apparently directly speaking with God doesn't net universal "peace" as you seem to suggest. Notice... Abraham keeps arguing and disagreeing about what God just told him.
[sup]26[/sup] The LORD said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

[sup]27[/sup] Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, [sup]28[/sup] what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

[sup]29[/sup] Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

[sup]30[/sup] Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

[sup]31[/sup] Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

[sup]32[/sup] Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

[sup]33[/sup] When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

On earth we have Jesus, we have the Holy spirit to guide and lead us into all the truth. Are they not enough? In His Love

When you minimize the Bible like this... Let's say the "Holy Spirit" tells Obama that everyone is to pay him $10.


What then?


Thankfully I and any other person that can read what the Apostles said about Scripture knows we can use Scripture to weigh claims like this and to test with.


As I pointed out earlier, the TRUTH is part of the salvation process. And guess what the Bible contains? The TRUTH!


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

 

[mjrhealth]

Apparently directly speaking with God doesn't net universal "peace" as you seem to suggest. Notice... Abraham keeps arguing and disagreeing about what God just told him.
[sup]26[/sup] The LORD said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

[sup]27[/sup] Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, [sup]28[/sup] what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

[sup]29[/sup] Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

[sup]30[/sup] Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

[sup]31[/sup] Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

[sup]32[/sup] Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

[sup]33[/sup] When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.



When you minimize the Bible like this... Let's say the "Holy Spirit" tells Obama that everyone is to pay him $10.


What then?


Thankfully I and any other person that can read what the Apostles said about Scripture knows we can use Scripture to weigh claims like this and to test with.


As I pointed out earlier, the TRUTH is part of the salvation process. And guess what the Bible contains? The TRUTH!


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

I guess, when Jesus said " when I come will I find faith upon the earth". I guess He knew He would find very little. If you cant trutst the Holy Spirirt to gude you, then how can you say you have faith.

In His Love

 

[Selene]

Why is there confusion with this?

The Bible is not God,, etc etc,,,,,,,,,

The Bible is the Authority when it comes to a comminication from God. All actions, thoughts ideas and experiences we have that pertain to God and our "Religion" (for lack of a better term) are judged by the words written in the book.

The Bible is the expressly written word of God, it's a knowledge of God that He gave to us. It's what we use to compare theocracy.

I don't know of anyone that bows down to worship the Bible. We wouldn't do that anymore than we would worship a pilar that supports the gates of heaven. We don't worship the Bible anymore than we worship the buildings we call churches.

But, as the written word of God, it should be revered every bit as much as God Himself. Nothing that Comes from God willl contradict anything written in those pages.

Where's the confusion comming from? What's the problem?

The problem is that Nomad said that God is not higher than the Bible, implying that God is equal with the Bible. I told him that God is higher than the Bible because God is three persons in one. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible is not part of the Holy Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are equal and one.

That is what I told Nomad that the Bible is not God and that the Bible should not be worshipped because it is not equal to God in any way. Only God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit should be worshipped and nothing else beyond that.

 

[mjrhealth]

The problem is that Nomad said that God is not higher than the Bible, implying that God is equal with the Bible. I told him that God is higher than the Bible because God is three persons in one. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible is not part of the Holy Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are equal and one.

That is what I told Nomad that the Bible is not God and that the Bible should not be worshipped because it is not equal to God in any way. Only God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit should be worshipped and nothing else beyond that.

Ihis part kept eluding me,

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

This is how you judge what is truth and what is not. The bible may lead you to Christ, but if you never put it down and take His hand, then its being a wasted Jourrney.

 

[TexUs]

I guess, when Jesus said " when I come will I find faith upon the earth". I guess He knew He would find very little. If you cant trutst the Holy Spirirt to gude you, then how can you say you have faith.

In His Love

You can have both. I'm not minimizing the HS. I'm also not minimizing the Bible.

When you realize the Bible is God's word, and the HS is God... They will never be opposing forces to each other. Someone's word can't oppose what they will to say.

We know demons can masquerade as agents of the light. Paul writes about and warns about this TO THE CHURCH (2 Cor 11). So when God's word and God live in harmony and won't oppose each other, and someone is doing something "by the Holy Spirit" that's contrary to the written word... I have no doubt they're being led by a spirit but it's certainly not The Spirit.

 

[jiggyfly]

You can have both. I'm not minimizing the HS. I'm also not minimizing the Bible.

When you realize the Bible is God's word, and the HS is God... They will never be opposing forces to each other. Someone's word can't oppose what they will to say.

We know demons can masquerade as agents of the light. Paul writes about and warns about this TO THE CHURCH (2 Cor 11). So when God's word and God live in harmony and won't oppose each other, and someone is doing something "by the Holy Spirit" that's contrary to the written word... I have no doubt they're being led by a spirit but it's certainly not The Spirit.

I agree and like wise someone just following the scripture is not necessarily following HolySpirit. The scriptures encourage and instruct us to be led by HolySpirit.

He is the one who has enabled us to represent his new covenant. This is a covenant, not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old way ends in death; in the new way, the Holy Spirit gives life.2Cor.3:6


But now we have been released from the law, for we died with Christ, and we are no longer captive to its power. Now we can really serve God, not in the old way by obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way, by the Spirit. Romans 7:6

 

[TexUs]

I agree and like wise someone just following the scripture is not necessarily following HolySpirit.

Absolutely. Look at the Pharisees.