The Biblical Basis for Catholic Distinctives

[Cassandra]

@Cassandra


That is interesting. But also worthy to note the time frame. 170 A.D.
Considering, John the Last Apostle to die in 100 A.D. and in that short span of 70 years men were carving stone images of Mary....when not one Apostle taught, or engaged in carving of images of Mary or Jesus.
And to note today, the numerous carved images, portraits, statues....(from what knowledge that Mary looked like ??)....and not only exist, admired....but are bowed Dow to and are Kissed and have trinkets laid down are elevated up and yes some do pray TO the statues.....none of that taught by Jesus or His Apostles or Scripture.....but in fact Scripturally discouraged and forbidden.
That is a big question mark for many people.

Just saying,
Taken

Is this for me or for Illuminator? I didn't post about 170 AD. i wanted to know how they got into the churches.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Stop squirming...
Factually....you explicitly said, your church is the “Catholic Church”....
Factually....you explicitly said, there are tens of thousand of Protestant churches.
Since you avoided the all the FACTS....they were provided you....that Protestant churches ARE “Christ’s Church”.Stop squirming.
You as a representative of the catholic church stated that it is the official position of the catholic church it is the only one true church.
On the flip side I take the side of the tens of thousands Protestant Churches, their position is the Church is Christ’s Church.
While you dictate they are “splintered”, I take the position they are solidified as Christ’s ONE church.

And you continue to LIE because I exposed you.
Typical for a dishonest person get caught with their foot in their mouth by trying to lie their way out of it . . .

YOUR claim below is a complete LIE because you cannot point me to the post where I allegedly said this.
“Factually....you explicitly said, there are tens of thousand of Protestant churches.”

Do yourself a favor and stop embarrassing yourself . . .

LOL...Jesus said there would BE FALSE preachers. False preachers are NOT THE GATES OF HELL. The world has not ended. If you don’t believe Jesus now....hide and watch. His Word shall prevail.

There gave ABSOLUTELY been false prophets and false teachers.

An entire CROP of them sprang up in the 16th century and began inventing ALL sorts of perverted and unbiblical doctrines such as –
Sola Scriptura
Sola Fide
Eternal Security (OSAS)
Limited Atonement
Unconditional Election
And MANY more . . .

HOWEVER – Jesus NEVER gave a prescription for divorcing oneself from His Church to form a NEW sect. That is the abomination of Protestantism.

Angry and Ignorant is your issue, not mine. Take your own advice...ALL of it, including your own words. You eat them. Stop pretending you can speak for me, it’s always an Obvious FAIL on your part, for ALL to see and read!

Just commenting on your angry and ignorant posts.
BAD fruit . . .
Matt. 7:16-17
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

Except ...that you SKIPPED the part of the Gentiles learning from Jews...teaching what the Jews taught.........UNTIL the Jewish Apostles died off....and Gentiles were in complete charge of the Church....and began having their RENAMED Christ’s Church.....to the Catholic Church.....making up new Doctrines...and much like you do...Pretending they are Christ’s Gospel truth...
When they are NOT!
The Catholic Church, splintered off from Christ’s Church.
The Catholic Church, splintered off from the Catholic Roman Church.
The Catholic Church, “pretends” they are all in agreement, YET have “sects” that do not ALL agree with the Catholic Church.
Men calling themselves Catholics, began reading and studying the Texts of Gods Word, and FOUND, what Catholic Priests were ORALLY SPEAKING, were NOT according to the Word of God.
The Catholic Priests were CHALLENGED, and as they have done for centuries, DENIED, and expelled the Challenger. Whoop, Whoop.
The Challenger went on to Preach the Truth according to Gods Word.
As more and more men learned to Read, gained access to written Text, they were ABLE TO VERIFY who was speaking the TRUTH.
But HOW HANDY, for Catholics to conduct Council after Council writing their little Doctrines, and Concluding the Written Text of Gods Word, did NOT solely need to be Relied on for VERIFICATION of Gods Truth!
But moreso, (as you do)...the Scriptural Text should be used by Catholics as a WEAPON. Simply change what a person claims, put your words in their mouth, and then USE the Scriptures to make them (with your words stuffed in their mouth) appear as liars....then lambast them with snarky accusations.)
It’s OLD worn out cunning sadistic trickery...and does not go unnoticed!
What a world-wind of deceptive malarkey. And you too naive to even notice your succession of popes that continuously CHANGE what you are SUPPOSE to believe, because it was uttered from the lips of a presently sitting pope.
Talk about splintered! The catholic church is famous for believe this today, do this today....HIDE the deception....and oops if the deception is revealed....DENY.....and if the deception is Pressed and Pushed into the Open.....grin and tomorrow establish a whole new set of beliefs.
Yes the catholic church has a long history....and many skeletons....no matter how deep they bury them under their churches....the Truth does not die.

Very fanciful historical revisionism.
Too bad, this idiotic vision came from your own warped mind and NOT from history . . .

SO – according to your nonsense – the Jewish Christians were completely wiped out by the end of the FIRST century??

Speaking ONLY of the Church in Jerusalem - according to the historian, Eusebius, the leaders of the Church in that city Church were ALL Jewish until 132 AD, until they were expelled from the city by the pagan Romans.

BEFORE this – we see the writings of Ignatius of Antioch – the FIRST century Bishop who wrote the following on his way to his death by martyrdom at the beginning of the 2nd century:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

You’ve just been schooled again by a Catholic . . .

 

[Mink57]

Is this for me or for Illuminator? I didn't post about 170 AD. i wanted to know how they got into the churches.

Cassandra, I want to ask you: Do you believe that NO form of artwork should be in churches?

 

[Jim B]

Well...there's no mention of laptops and computers in Scripture...or cars...or utensils for eating...or toilet paper...or microwaves...or sneakers...or parka's...or cell phones...or television and radio...the list goes on.

So, by your 'logic', you should pay heed to what's in Scriptures ONLY...and rid yourself of ALL modern technology.

Okay, whatever you say -- not! Your logic is bizarre and has nothing to do with the OP. If you think that accepting the Bible as the sole authority has anything to do with laptops, etc. you are so far off the mark as to not even merit a reply.

Since you believe the Pope and all the extra baggage of the Catholic church has anything to do with true faith in God, I feel very sorry for you.

 

[Jim B]

And you continue to LIE because I exposed you.
Typical for a dishonest person get caught with their foot in their mouth by trying to lie their way out of it . . .

YOUR claim below is a complete LIE because you cannot point me to the post where I allegedly said this.
“Factually....you explicitly said, there are tens of thousand of Protestant churches.”

Do yourself a favor and stop embarrassing yourself . . .

There gave ABSOLUTELY been false prophets and false teachers.

An entire CROP of them sprang up in the 16th century and began inventing ALL sorts of perverted and unbiblical doctrines such as –
Sola Scriptura
Sola Fide
Eternal Security (OSAS)
Limited Atonement
Unconditional Election
And MANY more . . .

HOWEVER – Jesus NEVER gave a prescription for divorcing oneself from His Church to form a NEW sect. That is the abomination of Protestantism.

Just commenting on your angry and ignorant posts.
BAD fruit . . .
Matt. 7:16-17
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.


Very fanciful historical revisionism.
Too bad, this idiotic vision came from your own warped mind and NOT from history . . .

SO – according to your nonsense – the Jewish Christians were completely wiped out by the end of the FIRST century??

Speaking ONLY of the Church in Jerusalem - according to the historian, Eusebius, the leaders of the Church in that city Church were ALL Jewish until 132 AD, until they were expelled from the city by the pagan Romans.

BEFORE this – we see the writings of Ignatius of Antioch – the FIRST century Bishop who wrote the following on his way to his death by martyrdom at the beginning of the 2nd century:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

You’ve just been schooled again by a Catholic . . .

When you wrote... "HOWEVER – Jesus NEVER gave a prescription for divorcing oneself from His Church to form a NEW sect. That is the abomination of Protestantism"... I stopped reading. There is no mention of the Catholic denomination in the Bible -- none. To say that the Catholic denomination is His church is nonsense.

Do people pick grapes from Catholic thornbushes, or figs from Catholic thistles?

You’ve just been schooled by a Protestant . . .

 

[Cassandra]

We don't even have a cross in ours, but some churches do. No one venerates those crosses, though.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Catholic "church" is just one of many denominations, yet it sells itself as the one true church. Where is this declaration found in Scripture? And please don't cite the "on this rock I will build my church", as shortly thereafter Jesus said in Mark 8:33, "But after turning and looking at his disciples, he rebuked Peter and said, “Get behind me, Satan. You are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.” There is no pope in Scripture, no bishops or cardinals either.

The massive building in Jerusalem -- the temple -- was destroyed and the priestly class performing all kinds of rituals was made obsolete, yet the Catholic church, in following many OT practices, has made a travesty of the simplicity and truth found in Christ.
You should pay attention to your last two quotes, as they contain truth that apparently has escaped your thinking.

Sola scriptura.

The better question is: WHERE does the Bible state that everything in history must be contained in the Bible??
Chapter and Verse, please . . .

The Church was called, “The Catholic Church” by the end of the FIRST century. We see this in the writings of FIRST century Bishop of Antioch, Ignatius – who was a lifelong student of the Apostle John. In fact, he was appointed Bishop of Antioch by Peter, who previously held that See:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Let’s see . . .
“Follow your Bishop”
“Obey your clergy”
“The Eucharist”
“Catholic Church”

WHAT Church does that sound like to YOU??
Your Protestant sects wouldn’t be invented for another 1400 years . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

When you wrote... "HOWEVER – Jesus NEVER gave a prescription for divorcing oneself from His Church to form a NEW sect. That is the abomination of Protestantism"... I stopped reading. There is no mention of the Catholic denomination in the Bible -- none. To say that the Catholic denomination is His church is nonsense.

Do people pick grapes from Catholic thornbushes, or figs from Catholic thistles?

You’ve just been schooled by a Protestant . . .

No - I simply expose lies and those who perpetuate them - while YOU appear to be defending them.

 

[BreadOfLife]

We don't even have a cross in ours, but some churches do. No one venerates those crosses, though.

W have a crucifix - not sijply a cross.
We preach Christ crucified, which is a stubling block to many (1 Cor. 1:23).

 

[Berserk]

Fundamentalists have had no answer either for the biblical case for praying to the saints (of which praying to Mary is a variation) or the posted miracles associated with praying to the saints and Marian healing streams, miracles conspicuously absent from their spirituality impotent church experience. Consider also the awesome miracles associated with Marian apparitions like Fatima, Lourdes, and now Medjugorje. Here fundamentalists resort to the desperate expedient of attributing such miracles to Satan, turning a blind eye to the deepening devotion to Jesus and the life of prayer that results from such miracles.
At Medjugorje Father Jozo was a skeptical Franciscan priest who just thought the 6 child visionaries were either hallucinating or making us their visions. That all changed when these children were fleeing through a corn field to get to his church because the Yugoslavian police who were trying to arrest them for being responsible for great masses of pilgrims coming to Medjugorje to bask in the revival fires that were raging near the apparition sites. Father Jozo didn't realize the children were about to bang on the church door to seek asylum, when God spoke to him in an audible voice, saying, "Protect my children!" Father Jozo went to prison for his new faith that the apparitions were real. Healing miracles occurred through the apparitions.

When I was a theology professor, I knew a skeptical psychology professor and a lawyer who had visited Medjugorje and came away convinced by what they experienced that the apparitions were real. The lawyer even had visions herself.
Fundamentalists need to ask themselves this question:
If deceased saints continue to pray for us and are aware of what is happening on earth, why couldn't Mary be one of those saints assigned by Jesus to minister on His behalf for His glory? If you don't tnink so, then earn your opinion by engaging point by point the evidence I present for praying to saints.

btw, the Catholic church has not officiatally pronounced on Medjugorje the way they have on Fatima and Lourdes.

 

[Jim B]

The better question is: WHERE does the Bible state that everything in history must be contained in the Bible??
Chapter and Verse, please . . .

The Church was called, “The Catholic Church” by the end of the FIRST century. We see this in the writings of FIRST century Bishop of Antioch, Ignatius – who was a lifelong student of the Apostle John. In fact, he was appointed Bishop of Antioch by Peter, who previously held that See:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Let’s see . . .
“Follow your Bishop”
“Obey your clergy”
“The Eucharist”
“Catholic Church”

WHAT Church does that sound like to YOU??
Your Protestant sects wouldn’t be invented for another 1400 years . . .

Propaganda and legalism. I really don't care what Ignatius of Antioch wrote, since it's not in Scripture. The same thing can be said about much (if not most) of the Catholic church's legalism. Most absurd is the statement that wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic church. That is heresy!

Why do you think that Martin Luther rebelled against the church of Rome? It had gotten so corrupt and deviated so much from the truth of Scripture that he was called by God to "set the record straight", i.e., return the church to its true roots. He succeeded!

Ignore your Bishop and don't listen to your clergy (all believers are part of the priesthood) in matters of faith. The Holy Spirit has been sent to guide us into all truth and the Bible is the written Word of God.

Regarding the eucharist: the communion table should be open to everyone. Never forget that at the last supper, Jesus shared the bread and wine with all, including Judas.

There is no such thing as the "Catholic Church" in the Bible. It's an invention of those who, no matter how corrupt and unscriptural, consider themselves to be the only true church.

Matthew 11:25-30, "At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son decides to reveal him. Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and my load is not hard to carry.”

Sola scriptura!

 

[Taken]

Is this for me or for Illuminator? I didn't post about 170 AD. i wanted to know how they got into the churches.

Oh. To Illuminator, but I thought you were in on that topic. Sorry.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Propaganda and legalism. I really don't care what Ignatius of Antioch wrote, since it's not in Scripture. The same thing can be said about much (if not most) of the Catholic church's legalism. Most absurd is the statement that wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic church. That is heresy!

And once AGAIN – where does the bible state that ALL historical matters must be contained in the Bible??

Where does it state that ALL matters of the faith must be contained in the bible??
Where does the Bible state that the Bible LONE is our “Sole” Authority??
You failed to give me Chapter and Verse like I asked you to.
WHY is it so difficult for Sola Scripturists to prove this false doctrine from Scripture?

As for Ignatius of Antioch – his writings give us a glimpse of what the Church looked like in the 1st century. Do you think her was LYING as he was being taken to Tome to be fed to the lions?
And for the record – I don’t think you even understand what “heresy” is . . .

Why do you think that Martin Luther rebelled against the church of Rome? It had gotten so corrupt and deviated so much from the truth of Scripture that he was called by God to "set the record straight", i.e., return the church to its true roots. He succeeded!

He “succeeded”??
Tell me – WHICH one of the tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering factions that came out of his movement that ALL teach different doctrines is the “correct” one?

Even Luther regretted what he did . . .
"There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams." - Martin Luther, Christians at Antwerp, 1525

Doesn't sound like "success" to me . . .

Ignore your Bishop and don't listen to your clergy (all believers are part of the priesthood) in matters of faith. The Holy Spirit has been sent to guide us into all truth and the Bible is the written Word of God.

Regarding the eucharist: the communion table should be open to everyone. Never forget that at the last supper, Jesus shared the bread and wine with all, including Judas.

That’s NOT what the Bible says – and YOU claim to be a Sola Scripturist . . .

2 Thess. 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you

1 Tim 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

IThere is no such thing as the "Catholic Church" in the Bible. It's an invention of those who, no matter how corrupt and unscriptural, consider themselves to be the only true church.

Matthew 11:25-30, "At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son decides to reveal him. Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and my load is not hard to carry.”

So, according to YOUR logic – “ANYONE” includes Mormons, JWs and every other person practicing perverted forms of quasi-Christianity.
He is NOT the God of Confusion as YOU describe Him.

He has ONE Church – ONE Body - and He prayed that this ONE Church would remain ONE as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). And He gave Supreme- earthly Authority to that ONE Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 30:21-23).

Reject His Church and you reject HIM.

 

[Taken]

And you continue to LIE because I exposed you.

Nothing new.
Start off making false accusations.
Worthy to IGNORE!

 

[covenantee]

The better question is: WHERE does the Bible state that everything in history must be contained in the Bible??
Chapter and Verse, please . . .

The Church was called, “The Catholic Church” by the end of the FIRST century. We see this in the writings of FIRST century Bishop of Antioch, Ignatius – who was a lifelong student of the Apostle John. In fact, he was appointed Bishop of Antioch by Peter, who previously held that See:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Let’s see . . .
“Follow your Bishop”
“Obey your clergy”
“The Eucharist”
“Catholic Church”

WHAT Church does that sound like to YOU??
Your Protestant sects wouldn’t be invented for another 1400 years . . .

The catholic (universal) church is the Christian Church. (Acts 11:26)

It is not the Catholic Church.

The disciples were called Christians, not Catholics.

Thank God for the Reformation.

God raised up, inspired, and empowered His Reformers to liberate His True Christian Church from spiritual darkness and oppression.

He endowed them with prophetic wisdom and discernment to identify the spiritual foe against whom He had called them into battle.

By His grace and mercy they were successful.

We are the spiritual beneficiaries today of their faith, vision, and sacrifice.

This forum would not exist today without them.

 

[Illuminator]

The Catholic "church" is just one of many denominations, yet it sells itself as the one true church.

Yet it has been repeated several times that the Catholic Church says it is not the only church with truths.

Where is this declaration found in Scripture? And please don't cite the "on this rock I will build my church"

,What's the matter with that? Does Jesus build a temporary church that splinters several centuries later???

as shortly thereafter Jesus said in Mark 8:33, "But after turning and looking at his disciples, he rebuked Peter and said, “Get behind me, Satan. You are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”

Jesus scolded Peter for his lack of his understanding, not his teaching. Right after that, Jesus teaches about redemptive suffering, which absent from your system altogether.

There is no pope in Scripture

, Yes there is.

no bishops

You can't find bishops in the Bible??? Is it because you don't have any?

or cardinals either.

A cardinal is a bishop with special ecclesial duties which are necessary as the church grows and expands. Jesus uses metaphors for the church as seeds and bodies, which grows and expands and develops. You have little or no development.

The massive building in Jerusalem -- the temple -- was destroyed and the priestly class performing all kinds of rituals was made obsolete, yet the Catholic church, in following many OT practices, has made a travesty of the simplicity and truth found in Christ.

Nonsense. The CC is the fulfilment of Judaism. You cannot make that claim. "has made a travesty of the simplicity and truth found in Christ" is an insulting lie. Insulting lies are automatic with anti-Catholics. Always asserted, never proven. You don't think about how stupid and insulting you are. No bishops?? Really??? We have special catechism instruction for the mentally handicapped; simplicity and truth found in Christ. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Sola scriptura.

An unbiblical, unhistorical, unworkable man made tradition that is not found anywhere in Scripture.

 

[Mink57]

Propaganda and legalism. I really don't care what Ignatius of Antioch wrote, since it's not in Scripture. The same thing can be said about much (if not most) of the Catholic church's legalism. Most absurd is the statement that wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic church. That is heresy!

Why do you think that Martin Luther rebelled against the church of Rome? It had gotten so corrupt and deviated so much from the truth of Scripture that he was called by God to "set the record straight", i.e., return the church to its true roots. He succeeded!

So, it seems that you do have your own 'pope'... named Martin Luther.

Luther, who absolutely despised the Jews that he called for the burning of their synagogues, prayerbooks, artifacts and basically wanted them exterminated from civilization.

Luther, who changed the wording of Romans 3:28 by adding the word "alone" after "faith".

Luther, who decided on his own to remove several books of the Bible. (doesn't Scripture tell us that we're not supposed to 'add' or 'delete' from the Bible?). Luther, who encouraged people to sin...

So, what do we got? A man who was a hypocrite...a liar...a racist...an encourager of bigamy...an encourager of hate crimes...the list goes on. Do you really believe that he was "called by God" to be a racist? A liar? A hypocrite...? Is being a liar "scriptural"?

You keep touting, "Sola Scriptura! Sola Scriptura!" WHOSE 'Scriptura'? Luther's? King James? Yours?

Seems to me that you and some others may have elevated Martin Luther to position higher than Scripture and higher than Jesus.

Ignore your Bishop and don't listen to your clergy (all believers are part of the priesthood) in matters of faith. The Holy Spirit has been sent to guide us into all truth and the Bible is the written Word of God.

Regarding the eucharist: the communion table should be open to everyone. Never forget that at the last supper, Jesus shared the bread and wine with all, including Judas.

There is no such thing as the "Catholic Church" in the Bible. It's an invention of those who, no matter how corrupt and unscriptural, consider themselves to be the only true church.

Matthew 11:25-30, "At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son decides to reveal him. Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and my load is not hard to carry.”

Sola scriptura!

 

[Illuminator]

The catholic (universal) church is the Christian Church. (Acts 11:26)
It is not the Catholic Church.

The disciples were called Christians, not Catholics.

They were called both.

QUESTION: CATHOLIC: Where did the word originate?
ANSWER: It comes from the Greek word Katholikos, which was later Latinized into Catholicus.

QUESTION: What is the meaning of the word?
ANSWER: It means 'Universal', which in itself means, 'of or relating to, or affecting the entire world and ALL peoples therein'. It means, ALL encompassing, comprehensibly broad, general, and containing ALL that is necessary. In summation, it means ALL people in ALL places, having ALL that is necessary, and for ALL time.

QUESTION: But is it Biblical?

ANSWER: Yes it is. It is in Matthew 28:19-20, "Go, therefore and make disciples of ALL nations...teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded you; And behold, I am with you ALL days, even unto the consummation of the world." That is a statement of Universality, Katholicos, Catholicus, Catholic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. I have heard that the word 'Catholic' did not come into use for hundreds of years after Jesus Christ founded His Church.

A. Not true. The first recorded use of the word that I could find, is in St. Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Smyrneans, paragraph 8, of 106 A.D., "Where the Bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Undoubtedly the word was in use before the time of this writing. Can you at least acknowledge that St. Ignatius of Antioch was a Christian?

Q. Some say the Catholic Church ended with Constantine (285-337), with the "Edict of Milan" which he issued in 313, which allowed the Church to practice openly. Others say that is when the Church began. Who is right?

A. Neither is right. The Catholic Church is the true Church founded by Jesus Christ and He guaranteed its perpetuality, Matthew 28:20, and its unfaltering truth, 1Timothy 3:15. Now if either of the arguments in the question were true, then don't you think the Church Fathers would have mentioned it somewhere? Instead, the Church Fathers mention the Catholic Church by name in hundreds of their writings and spanning many centuries.
Catholic Church...
Ignatius, Letter to the Smyrneans 106AD;
Martyrdom of St. Polycarp 155AD;
Clement of Alexandria, Stromateis 202AD;
Cyprian, Unity of the Catholic Church 251AD;
Cyprian, Letter to Florentius, 254AD

"Christian is my name, and Catholic my surname. The one designates me, while the other makes me specific. Thus am I attested and set apart... When we are called Catholics it is by this appellation that our people are kept apart from any heretical name."
Saint Pacian of Barcelona, Letter to Sympronian, 375 A.D..

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being proclaimed all over the world. καταγγέλλεται ἐν ὅλῳ τῷ κόσμῳ. Paul was a Catholic.

Thank God for the Reformation.

Thank God for Protestant intolerance? Thank God for plunder as an agent of religious revolution? Thank God for Protestant censorship? Thank God for systematic suppression? The Protestant Inquisition.

God raised up, inspired, and empowered His Reformers to liberate His True Christian Church from spiritual darkness and oppression.

Oh pleeeze, spare us your ill-informed propaganda.

He endowed them with prophetic wisdom and discernment to identify the spiritual foe against whom He had called them into battle.
By His grace and mercy they were successful.

We are still here. They failed miserably. Both sides were to blame for the trying times of the 16th century. The true Church is always in need of renewal. That's what councils are for (that you don't have). Vatican II ended the need for a reformation, if you bother to read it's documents.

We are the spiritual beneficiaries today of their faith, vision, and sacrifice.

And endless division, which the Bible condemns.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The catholic (universal) church is the Christian Church. (Acts 11:26)
It is not the Catholic Church.
The disciples were called Christians, not Catholics.

As I alreaduy showed you guys - the Church was called "The Catholic Church" by the end of the FIRSY century.

This is a simple fact of history and an unpleasant one for Protestants. However - YOUR Protestant Fathers didn't argue against this fact. They simply dicorced themselves from what they felt had been corrupted, forgetting the promise of Jesus (Matt. 16:18).

Thank God for the Reformation.
God raised up, inspired, and empowered His Reformers to liberate His True Christian Church from spiritual darkness and oppression.
He endowed them with prophetic wisdom and discernment to identify the spiritual foe against whom He had called them into battle.
By His grace and mercy they were successful.
We are the spiritual beneficiaries today of their faith, vision, and sacrifice.
This forum would not exist today without them.

As I stated before - He is NOT the God of Confusion.
The Protestant Rebellion is the modern day Tower of Babel with uts tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering factions that ALL teach different doctrines based on the interpretational whims of their human founders.

- Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
- Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
- Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
- Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
- Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
- Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
- Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
- Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
- Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
- Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
- Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on . . .

This makes the Tower of Babel look like a well-oiled machine . . .

 

[Illuminator]

Propaganda and legalism. I really don't care what Ignatius of Antioch wrote, since it's not in Scripture. The same thing can be said about much (if not most) of the Catholic church's legalism. Most absurd is the statement that wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic church. That is heresy!

That is not what Ignatius wrote. "Where the Bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." We don't claim that the ECF writings are on par with Scripture, but we don't deny them has history the way you do.

"I really don't care what Ignatius of Antioch wrote, since it's not in Scripture."