The Birthing Is Key

[amigo de christo]

Be hearers and doers of the glorious Word . Let the LORD be praised .

 

[robert derrick]

What religion and certainly the world cannot understand about God - in the scriptures, how in 'the world' can God have children. The world claims (some in the world) that we are all the children of God. Confusing all humanity in creation was created by God. It is easy I suppose to confuse the two because there is some very smart people that look at scripture and see that God has children now and assume we are all children. Now actually believing those scriptures and pin pointing the written word that says "you must be born again" is another situation. So we can take written scripture and read what it means to believe the word of God, and if I do believe I become a child of God by a completed finished work on the cross that killed who I was and birthed in me a new person - constituting an act of God to birth a child just like any other child that is born.

When Jesus got his Mary body - when he was coming into the world via the virgin birth and would walk among men as no other had ever walked because his father was God. What does scripture say;

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. - Luke 1:35.

The first birth by God to grip mankind and it is a pattern for the children of God today in being born again - a birth takes place. It may be different in alot of ways but a birthing will take place if you are a child of God. You are not a child just because you believed - you are are a child because when you believed a birth took place - scripture says to all humanity "you must be born again."

When you believe - a miracle happens to an individual - they get the complete Christ' in them the moment they believe. You don't get a little bit and as your mind gets right you get more - I have heard the theology from some that it is Christ' growing in you - no sir - you will do the growing in mind. When Christ' is birthed in the believer they receive him - the full and complete Christ' in you the hope of glory!

Footnote: Paul has become our pattern as well in following him into the "yeah deep things of God,." He gives us the answer to salvation - he tells a believer what has saved them and how it all came about (by a birthing). So Paul has to be followed in the epistles he wrote to us - the birthed again. Paul gives sound instruction to 'follow me as I follow the Lord Jesus Christ.' Why would that be so important to a believer? If they want to know how they have come to be who they are, they will have to follow Paul as written in scripture. The believer must see that 'before Paul there is NO in Christ' message. It couldn't be known it was not written down. Were people in Christ', yes absolutely that started on the day of Pentecost. But according to what is written what Paul had to say had been hid in God from the foundation of the world' - and that fact was! God Himself would birth children of his own by placing another person in the creature, constituting a birth and a child of God.

16 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, - Romans 16:25.

"When Jesus got his Mary body - when he was coming into the world via the virgin birth and would walk among men as no other had ever walked because his father was God."

I would say this ought be addressed:

"Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." (Luke 3)

Adam was son of God, and he walked as no other man walked on earth, for there was none before him, nor did any man following him walk on earth as he did, until Jesus.

There are only two men on earth who walked with the same title of son, and in the same manner of purity with God, and with the same Life of God within from birth:

Adam the First and Jesus, the 2nd Adam.

The first walked temporarily with God, the 2nd walked with God to the end.

Both are called sons upon birth into the world.

And both had the same immortality of Life in them from their beginning in the world. The first received and lost it, the 2nd had and kept it.

 

[amadeus]

Be hearers and doers of the glorious Word . Let the LORD be praised .

But then alone, we can do nothing! So then we see a promise:

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

 

[amigo de christo]

But then alone, we can do nothing! So then we see a promise:

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

Thats right my friend . LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED .

 

[robert derrick]

LOL Like I said, topic of discussion and debate.
Our salvation is not just physical...there is a spiritual side of it.

Actually there is no physical side, only Spiritual.

The only thing 'physical' about being born again are the works of faith done outwardly by the mortal body. But the inward man, born and conformed to the Image of the Son (Rom 8) is ALL Spirit born and led.

Remember, it is the Spirit that quickens, that gives Life, and His kingdom is everlasting, not this world.

There is no physical side of being born again: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1)

Absolutely nothing of this world, of the flesh of this world, nor of the carnal mind and will of man in this world has anything to do with being saved and born of God.

God Himself is a Spirit, and only that Spirit is true indeed and life everlasting. Everything else is but a puff of smoke, to be forgotten forever in eternity.

It is only when sinner believes and receives the faith of Jesus into the heart, that God does the work of the Spirit inwardly, to bring to life and light the inner man of the Spirit. No flesh is saved and no flesh shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Only the flesh and blood of the Spirit in the inner man is immortal and eternal: the flesh and blood of the Son that is meat indeed and drink indeed. (John 6)

We sit in heavenly places now before God in His temple in heaven (Eph 2), bearing the image of the heavenly, while walking in the image of the earthy (1 Cor 15). And one day we will bear that heavenly image of the Son of God in the likeness of His resurrection and power (Rom 6). We live like Him in mortal body by faith of the inner man, and shall be like Him in immortal body when He appears, if we remain faithful in heart to the end. (1 John 3)

 

[Grailhunter]

Actually there is no physical side, only Spiritual.

The only thing 'physical' about being born again are the works of faith done outwardly by the mortal body. But the inward man, born and conformed to the Image of the Son (Rom 8) is ALL Spirit born and led.

Remember, it is the Spirit that quickens, that gives Life, and His kingdom is everlasting, not this world.

There is no physical side of being born again: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1)

Absolutely nothing of this world, of the flesh of this world, nor of the carnal mind and will of man in this world has anything to do with being saved and born of God.

God Himself is a Spirit, and only that Spirit is true indeed and life everlasting. Everything else is but a puff of smoke, to be forgotten forever in eternity.

It is only when sinner believes and receives the faith of Jesus into the heart, that God does the work of the Spirit inwardly, to bring to life and light the inner man of the Spirit. No flesh is saved and no flesh shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Only the flesh and blood of the Spirit in the inner man is immortal and eternal: the flesh and blood of the Son that is meat indeed and drink indeed. (John 6)

We sit in heavenly places now before God in His temple in heaven (Eph 2), bearing the image of the heavenly, while walking in the image of the earthy (1 Cor 15). And one day we will bear that heavenly image of the Son of God in the likeness of His resurrection and power (Rom 6). We live like Him in mortal body by faith of the inner man, and shall be like Him in immortal body when He appears, if we remain faithful in heart to the end. (1 John 3)

We were talking about Baptism.

 

[Wrangler]

She was a Virgin before a Virgin after a Virgin giving birth and a perpetual Virgin
Isa 7:14

This is why people think Catholics have a problem with sex.

 

[theefaith]

We were talking about Baptism.

This is why people think Catholics have a problem with sex.

No God made them male and female

but only the God-man can be born of a Virgin-mother

 

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ is our salvation! Lk 2:30
Not something but somebody

wow! Wrangler likes something I said???

 

[Wrangler]

No God made them male and female

but only the God-man can be born of a Virgin-mother

No theological need for her to be perpetual virgin. There is a reason for her not to be a virgin since the Bible says Jesus had brothers and sisters.

 

[theefaith]

No theological need for her to be perpetual virgin. There is a reason for her not to be a virgin since the Bible says Jesus had brothers and sisters.

Each of the sons of Jacob had eleven brothers, how many mothers?
4 mothers
Leah 6
Leah’s maid 2
Rachel 2
Rachel’s maid 2
So brothers does not mean they are children of Mary!

 

[theefaith]

It’s does say no sex ever Lk 1:34

Lk 1:31 one child from her womb

 

[Wrangler]

wow! Wrangler likes something I said???

Goes to show that with God anything is possible

 

[Wrangler]

Each of the sons of Jacob had eleven brothers, how many mothers?
4 mothers
Leah 6
Leah’s maid 2
Rachel 2
Rachel’s maid 2
So brothers does not mean they are children of Mary!

Rationalization. There’s nothing in the Bible that says Jesus had step brothers or step sisters

 

[robert derrick]

We were talking about Baptism.

Physical baptism in water doesn't save anything.

It is an outward declaration of what ought be an inward work of God, and still may not be the case when politically or socially motivated.

Baptism of water is not a law nor a commandment, except in that ministers are commanded to baptize those that request it.
In which case there is no requirement for baptism other than the verbal confession of faith of Jesus:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." (Acts 8)

And so the work of the Spirit of God by faith is entirely Spiritual, and there is no physical part in that at all.

They who become part of the body of Christ as members born thereinto, shall have part in the 1st resurrection o f the body of Christ.

The only physical proof being works of faith from the heart. But flesh and blood has nothing to do with salvation and redemption and sanctification of the Spirit and blood of Christ.

There is no 'physical side' to salvation.

 

[Grailhunter]

Physical baptism in water doesn't save anything.

It is an outward declaration of what ought be an inward work of God, and still may not be the case when politically or socially motivated.

Baptism of water is not a law nor a commandment, except in that ministers are commanded to baptize those that request it.
In which case there is no requirement for baptism other than the verbal confession of faith of Jesus:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." (Acts 8)

And so the work of the Spirit of God by faith is entirely Spiritual, and there is no physical part in that at all.

They who become part of the body of Christ as members born thereinto, shall have part in the 1st resurrection o f the body of Christ.

The only physical proof being works of faith from the heart. But flesh and blood has nothing to do with salvation and redemption and sanctification of the Spirit and blood of Christ.

There is no 'physical side' to salvation.

The topic was not really about Baptism being the point of salvation.
More along the lines of it being the event that Christ was talking about being born again.
The discussion He was having with Nicodemus was not about belief. It was about being born again.
It is an old debate. It is a concept explained in the scriptures were we are buried with Christ and are raised to walk a new life.

 

[robert derrick]

'but only the God-man can be born of a Virgin-mother'

True, and it doesn't require the virgin mother to be born 'immaculately'.

When I learned that 'immaculate conception' was not that of Jesus being born by the virgin Mary, but Mary being born immaculately, is when I fully realized how paganist Catholics really are.

Demeter was born immaculately, and was virgin daughter of Cronos, Virgo the Virgin constellation, and she became Mother of Zeus and then consort of Zeus to produce the Olympian gods.

And so the pagan Catholics declare her both Mother and Queen of the God Jesus. They have made her Virgo Demeter and consort of King Jesus to produce the Olympianic gods, the many firstborn of Christ, of which there are 12, even the 12 tribes of Israel.

Catholics are pagans in pseudo-Christian garb.

 

[robert derrick]

The topic was not really about Baptism being the point of salvation.
More along the lines of it being the event that Christ was talking about being born again.
The discussion He was having with Nicodemus was not about belief. It was about being born again.
It is an old debate. It is a concept explained in the scriptures were we are buried with Christ and are raised to walk a new life.

"The discussion He was having with Nicodemus was not about belief. It was about being born again."

And exactly how is the faith of Jesus and being born again separated?

My simple point was that salvation has nothing to do with the physical and everything to do with the Spiritual, and you responded with baptism of water, to which I reiterated that baptism of water has nothing to do with salvation, and everything to do with outward confession faith.

And then you say it is really about being born again, not about belief.

Which of course makes no sense. Not Scripturally anyway.

The topic is about the new birth in Christ Jesus which has nothing to do with the blood and will of man, and everything to do with the blood of Jesus and will of the Spirit.

In salvation of Jesus, the physical has only two follow up parts to it: works of faith in the world, and demonstrations of faith before men. Neither of which justify a person without faith first in the heart.

There is nothing physical about salvation by grace through faith: Spiritual only and Spiritual all.

 

[Grailhunter]

'but only the God-man can be born of a Virgin-mother'

True, and it doesn't require the virgin mother to be born 'immaculately'.

When I learned that 'immaculate conception' was not that of Jesus being born by the virgin Mary, but Mary being born immaculately, is when I fully realized how paganist Catholics really are.

Demeter was born immaculately, and was virgin daughter of Cronos, Virgo the Virgin constellation, and she became Mother of Zeus and then consort of Zeus to produce the Olympian gods.

And so the pagan Catholics declare her both Mother and Queen of the God Jesus. They have made her Virgo Demeter and consort of King Jesus to produce the Olympianic gods, the many firstborn of Christ, of which there are 12, even the 12 tribes of Israel.

Catholics are pagans in pseudo-Christian garb.

Good job! You are pointing out the obvious. LOL A God impregnating a human woman was a common theme in Pagan mythology. It runs through several Pagan beliefs and a few in Greco-Roman mythologies. Alexander the Great said his father was a god.

So how do you figure that relates to Christianity?

 

[Grailhunter]

My simple point was that salvation has nothing to do with the physical and everything to do with the Spiritual, and you responded with baptism of water, to which I reiterated that baptism of water has nothing to do with salvation, and everything to do with outward confession faith

I am not saying salvation is not about belief.
My point is that there are physical aspects...the physical relating to the spiritual.
I understand that some believe that all you have to do is believe and you have a ticket to heaven.
I am not one of those that believe that.
I believe that belief is important and contributes to totality of salvation.
I believe that repentance is important and contributes to totality of salvation.
I believe that baptism is important and contributes to totality of salvation.
I believe that the bread and wine is important and contributes to totality of salvation.
Now exactly what is the dividing line as to what does what is an interesting debate.

For example Christ said that if we do not perform the bread and wine ritual that we have no life in us and we do not abide in him.
Now what is it like to be "saved" but have no life in us and we do not abide in Christ?

But we can do an experiment...just believe...do not repent, do not be baptized and do not participate in communion. Then after it is all over, send us a post card and tell us how it all turned out for you.

Bottom line Christ said, Why do you call me Lord Lord, and not do what I say.