Marymog
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Dirt was the mother of the 1st Adam
(Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground)The 'blessed virgin Mary'
- Thread starter robert derrick
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(Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground)
Marymog
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You make absolutely no sense....I really, truly, honestly don't understand what you are saying....
There is of course no Scriptural proof that the Roman Catholic religion did these things on purpose.
However, with their help in revealing what they really believe, then I would say that Mystery Babylon the Great is not the city nor 'revived' empire of Rome itself, but rather is the salvaged religion of Rome, forced into using Christian words, names, and types to cover themselves: imperial policy of state religion compelled them to wear a cloak of Christianity.
There's the wolf in sheep's clothing, and there's the religion of Rome in christian garb: the oldest tradition of Rome was Romulus and Remus being suckled by a she-wolf, and the oldest religious festival of Rome was the Lupercalia, the running of wolves, in honor of Romulus' and Remus' Mother She-Wolf.
I appreciate the challenge, so I offer these things:
1. The Roman Catholic Religion with it's own Pope was first recorded in 304 A.D., at the same time as Constantine's rise to Emperor in 306 A.D., which resulted in the state religion becoming Christianity, rather than the old Roman religion of Saturn.
As Sherlock would say, I don't believe in coincidences.
2. During that time there was of course much 'conversion' to Christianity by pagans within the Empire.
3. However, such surface conversions were not th esource of the newly made Roman Catholic religion. It was rather the founders of it that made the necessary decision at Rome to rescue the Roman religion by adding partial christian doctrine and names to it: It was not Christian leaders allowing pagan concepts to creep in, but rather the pagan religion purposely covering itself with christian dressing.
The Roman Catholic religion is not Christianity corrupted by paganist outside doctrines, that had been going on since the time of the apostles, but rather is the old Roman religion of Saturn coopting christian things to sustain itself during the imperial politics of the day.
There's them that have only a form of godliness and deny the power thereof, and there's the Roman religion having a form of Christianity and denying the Christ thereof.
It has been shown they deny the divinity of Christ, without the most-necessary immaculate conception of Mary and her ever-virgin Sacred Womb. They deny the true Christ Jesus, and rather preach a false christ with hereditary divinity from Mary.
Once again, this is not a corruption of Christian leaders from outside sources, but rather is a corruption of the Roman religion of Saturn from outside source of Scripture, due to political and social necessity.
The goal was to retain that pagan religion by Christian cover, not to be converted to Christianity and bring old Roman tradition with them.
Here are the details of rescuing the religion of Rome:
The old Roman state religion of Saturn was centered around the oldest beginning worship in Rome: the Sacred Fire of Vesta forever burning in her temple as security for the city, Republic, and then Empire of Rome.
Vesta was the Roman take of Demeter from the Greeks: The Virgin Mother Goddess of the earth and fertility. The daily attendance of the Sacred Fire was by the Vestal Virgins, who would be put to death if found having lain with a man.
The head of the cult of Vesta, overseeing her Sacred Fire, was the Pontifex Maximus, who was elected from among the leading Roman citizens. He had full and sole authority over the priesthood: the priests of Rome called the priestly collegia, who offered gifts and sacrifices to Jupiter-Saturn, Father of all gods and the cosmos, who was even more Supreme in His power and rule than King Zeus.
Saturn, more so than Jupiter, was the ruling 'spirit' of the cosmos, who could not be touched nor understood, but only acknowledged as Supreme. He was a cosmic spirit akin to the Greek Cronos, who was cosmic time personified.
Along with this were the elected augurs from among the priests, who were to prophecy of Rome's state policy by observance of sacrifices and signs in the heavens, whether of lightening, storms, earthquakes, flights of birds, eclipsed moon and sun, etc...
And finally the plebeian class of Rome, who were to be instructed and dutifully obedient to all pronouncements of the Pontifex Maximus and the priestly electors.
These all exist today in the Roman Catholic religion; howbeit, with christianized names and types:
Saturn becomes the Father: unknowable, untouchable, and so distant as to be forgotten, except when spoken in liturgy.
The Pontifex Maximus becomes the Pope. The Pontiff.
The Sacred Fire of Vesta becomes the Sacred Womb of 'Mary'.
The Vestal Virgins become virgin nuns.
The collegia of priests becomes the College of Cardinals and priests.
The augurs become the ruling cardinals, who have right and duty to elect the Pope, and to give pronouncements of Roman Catholic Canon. These are the 'successors' of the apostles, who only have right to the spirit of the cosmic Father to guide the religion in all matters of doctrine and faith.
The plebes become the ruled 'laity'.
The doctrine of the virgin birth of Christ was officially adopted, but was always dependent on the Sacred Fire of Vesta, now called the Sacred Womb of Mary.
And the doctrine of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as well as the Nicene Creed was 'posted' on their temple doorsteps for cover. And they are as honored today as they were then: in words on paper only. They are much like State Employment regulations mandated to be posted openly at every place of business, which no one reads nor cares about.
The founders of the Roman Catholic religion were not Christian leaders gone astray over outside traditions. They were and remain leaders of the religion of Rome, using Christian cover, and speaking the name of Jesus for effect only.
Not only do they openly reject Scripture as the sole authority of the things of God, but they plainly hold to their own Sacred traditions more so than any Scripture of God, which they only use to teach and preach their traditions for doctrine of God.
Two main things show themselves for who they really are:
1. The all-encompassing word 'Sacred' for all their traditions and religious rites, which have no Scripture for them. Not even the word 'Sacred' is in the Bible. Those Sacred traditions and rites are the Roman religion of old, and they are taught in Jesus' name in order to proselytize would be christian believers of Jesus to the religion of Rome.
2. The laity plebes reject the Spirit of truth dwelling within them according to the promise of Scripture, in order to be guided into all truth of Scripture. The spirit of the cosmic Fathers is only for the Cardinal augurs. The laity only hear and believe their Sacred leaders.
They are persuaded to reject and disregard any passion of Christ Jesus for His words of Scriptures only: Sola Scriptura.
Nothing is more anathema to the Roman Catholic religion, than lay believers daring to go to Scripture in order to judge their Sacred teachings as being truly of God or not. When that is done, the whole of the Roman religion is forsaken.
Why? Because it is not about Jesus Christ and Him crucified, but all about the religion of Roman and the Sacred Fire of Vesta, kept burning by the Pontiff and college of Cardinals in the hearts of their obedient followers.
3. Demanding faith in the Sacred Womb of Mary in order to believe the divinity of Christ: a false christ allowed in the religion for cover only.
Christians have the fire of the the Holy Ghost in their hearts, when born into the body of Christ by faith through the Spirit of Christ.
Roman Catholics have the Sacred Fire of Vesta in their hearts, when proselytized into the religion of Rome by faith in the Sacred Womb of Mary through the spirit of antichrist.
So isolating the message to these five main claims, you have still not yet proven your position.
A1) Define what the "Roman Catholic" religion is firstly and what they believe. Where are these beliefs recorded? Can you cite them? Secondly, the "Pope" is just the Bishop of Rome, there are also other Bishops called "Pope" in Church history such as the Bishop of Alexandria. St. Irenaeus lived from around 130AD to around 202AD and records a list of the Bishops of Rome from even before his time, these would be the "Popes" which are nothing other than the Bishops of Rome. Here is the list:
"The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church [here he means the Church at Rome, the Bishop of whom is the Pope as I said], committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolic tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Soter having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth."
The comment in brackets is made by me. The citation is from "Against Heresies" book 3, chapter 3, paragraph 3. He records the list of Popes from the day of the Apostles (Peter and Paul specifically) onwards to his own day, and he died over 100 years from 304AD. So your claim here is manifestly false.
A2) Prove that was there religion, not just a deity worshipped by people in the paganism of the Empire.
A3) Give citations, show this from history directly.
A4) Again, citations, show me this.
A5) Again, citations, show it.
You have made many claims, one of them false, and given no proof of your claims. This is not how history is done. I may as well begin making up your life history, you Robert are actually 1000 years old and are a medieval spy sent to assassinate the next world leader averting another holocaust soon to happen in 2049AD. No citations or proofs given of this because according to how you have acted no proof needs to be given of a historical claim.
I know. The Scriptures are my whole life, heart, and soul.
Thy word have I hid in mine heart.
They are not yours, because you don't love them as they ought to be loved and obeyed as the true source of all truth of God.
You love other things more Sacred to you. Which is your choice.
Marymog
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Define what the "Roman Catholic" religion is firstly and what they believe. Where are these beliefs recorded?
Just did, and compared them to the religion of Rome. I got them from those posting here. Let them deny it.
The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church [here he means the Church at Rome, the Bishop of whom is the Pope as I said], committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate.
You want to go to the Roman Catholic leaders, that have nothing to do with the Scriptures and doctrine of the apostles, other than to use some of them for their own Sacred religious purposes, and then choose to believe and repeat their revisionism of apostolic succession. Be my guest.
The founders of the Roman Catholic religion begun in the beginning of Constantine's reign has nothing to do with the apostles, nor good church leaders following them.
He records the list of Popes from the day of the Apostles (Peter and Paul specifically) onwards to his own day.
He records a list of church leaders, that they like to say were the line of Popes. Once again. Believe them that reject the doctrine of the apostles in the first place, and then claim unerring Sacred succession of them. Right.
If you see no sense in what I offer, then that's up to you.
Bottom line: The Pope is also called the Pontiff and the Pontifex Maximus.
The Sacred Womb of Mary is the Sacred Fire of Vesta, upon which the divinity of their christ depends.
Scripture is only adornment for their Sacred traditions to lure believers in Jesus' name.
Ever-virginity put into the priesthood and nuns is that of the vestal service of Rome.
Most believe that the Roman Catholic church is Christianity corrupted by pagan traditions.
I am saying, that the Roman Catholic Religion is the religion of Rome covering itself with christian identity, that was necessary by their founding fathers in the time of Constantine the great.
You say no way, I say no problem.
You're the scholar. You want to disprove it, other than reject it out of hand, then you go get your 'citations'.
I'm not here to 'convince' anyone of anything, but only to share what I offer, based upon other peoples' own words about what they have been taught to believe.
If anything, I am offering instruction on what they are instructed into.
I say Mystery Babylon is not Rome, nor the old Roman empire restored with Christian religion, but rather is the old religion of Rome carrying the cover of christianity, which they despise as dead weight, and want to be entirely rid of, as it was in the days of old Rome:
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Even as the them today of the Jews Religion burn for their temple of Solomon made once again with hands, for the LORD to inhabit in a fire of smoke, so the Sacred leaders of the Roman Catholic religion burn for their temple of Vesta with Sacred Fire once again lighted with hands of Sacred men.
So in other words: you have no citations, you can not prove your claims, and you will continue to make your claims despite this. This is willful ignorance, an abuse of God-given rationality, and lying. God bless. As for disproving all you've said, you're the one who made the claims, but you can just go to a good history book (the series by Jaroslav Pelikan is good) or read through all of the records we have on Christianity from that era onward to see what happened. I'd recommend starting with (other than the NT), the Didache, letters of St. Ignatius, Epistle of Barnabas, works of St. Dionysius of Alexandria, the remaining writings of Origen, the works of St. Irenaeus of Lyon, all the heretical works especially those found recently (the Nag Hammadi scrolls), Eusebius' Church history, and so on for a good beginning. In them you will see that everything you said has as much to do with reality as the claim that "the Moon is made of cheese" has to do with Erik the Red's death.
Oh. I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was talking to a Catholic believer of the Roman religion!
Well, this makes more sense.
I thought I was speaking with someone that believes the Jesus of Scripture only, and was perplexed by your citing of Roman religion revisionists.
You really think that your Sacred leaders, who refuse the doctrine of the Apostles according to their Scriptures only, are the successors of those apostles of Scripture??
You see no connection between your religion's Sacred Womb of Mary held by your Pontiff in the Roman Catholic religion, and the Sacred Fire of Vesta kept by the Pontifex Maximus in the Roman religion?
Or that of the eternally virgin Mother Mary of conception and that of the Virgin Mother Vesta of fertility?
The Roman priest collegia and the College of Cardinals?
Vestal virgins and virgin nuns?
Not even a teeny bit?
They all came from Rome and are still centered in Rome. No?
The name of Vesta fell as the name of Mary rose in Rome with the rise of Constantine and Christianity. No?
I am actually giving your religion more credit than others do.
Based upon what your people have taught me here, I no longer believe your fathers were leaders of the Christian church, who then foolishly corrupted themselves by pagan outside traditions, but rather were in fact purposed saviors of the Roman religion in a time of need, and most successfully kept it's Sacred tradition and fire alive by skillfully handling the Scriptures to cover themselves, when other pagan religions were being cast down by newly risen Christian leaders of Constantine's favor.
They kept the ancient religion of Rome relevant and continuing under new names of Christian origin and partial teachings of Scripture itself.
And plastering the Nicene Creed everywhere on your temple door was probably distasteful but no doubt necessary.
I mean, afterall, what does it matter if some foreign regulations of words on paper are seen but not heard, much less taught. Right?
Look, you should in a way be proud of your founding fathers. I give credit to whom credit is due.
And since you think Sola Scriptura is heresy anyway, then what's the problem with believing in a christ, who's divinity is dependent upon an ancient Virgin Mother of Rome?
You are Roman Catholic. Right?
Where's the insult and offense here to you? You don't accept the Scripture only doctrine of Jesus Christ anyway.
No. You need to break out your own archives and start proving these things wrong with your own 'citations', if you don't want to accept my instruction in your religion.
If I am wrong about any of your Sacred traditions, then by all means correct me. Do so, and I will repent and accept them as such. And I am not talking about any unnecessary effort to justify them, but just whether I accurately understand and repeat them.
Otherwise, own up to them and stand by them and acknowledge the sensical conclusions that they mean in terms of the ancient Roman religion now called Catholic vs the new Christianity of the Scriptures.
P.s. any of these great authors that believe your Sacred tradition of Mother Mary are heretical to the Scriptures, even as the Mary of Scripture is heretical to your Sacred tradition.
You see, we are not in the same religion. Mine is by Scripture only, and yours is by ancient Sacred Roman tradition sprinkled with Scriptural dressing.
You indeed are wrong entirely about Roman Catholicism. I have no idea what any Catholics told you but nothing you have said has anything at all to do with it.
You follow traditions of men not found in Scripture, therefore, you are carnally minded and cannot possibly understand the Spiritual things I am speaking of, that are only found in Scripture:What???
The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Your failure to understand these things is proof of the affect of your carnal traditions upon your mind and heart:
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Ok, fair enough. Correct me:
1. Is Mary ever virgin? Mother of God? Mother of earth? Queen of heaven? New Eve?
2. Is her womb Sacred? The Sacred Womb of Mary.
3. By immaculate conception, was she born sinless as was Jesus by virgin birth?
4. Can we believe in the divinity of Christ, and not believe in the immaculate conception of Mary?
5. Was the divinity of Christ in the womb of Mary, dependent upon the Sacredness of Mary's womb by immaculate conception?
6. Are there traditions not proven by Scripture, that are still Sacred to the God of the Bible?
7. Is Sola Scriptura heresy of man: Sacred traditions of God do not need be proven by Scripture, because the writings of the Bible are not the sole authority of God's Word?
8. Is the Pope also called the Pontiff, the Supreme Pontiff: Pontifex Maximus?
9. Were nuns ever required to be virgins?
10. Were priests ever forbidden to be married while being priests?
11. Is there a College of Cardinals that elect the Pope and declare church doctrine and current policy under the guidance of the Pope?
And finally, you may want to research this:
What happened to the religion of Rome, when Constantine became Emperor and Christianity was made the state religion?
Thanks.
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Hardly!Dirt was the mother of the 1st Adam
Are you being serious?
Much love!
Yes. Remember, this is the religion of Rome. The most ancient hearth of their city was the Sacred Fire of Vesta, who was the Virgin Mother Goddess of the earth and of fertility.Hardly!
Are you being serious?
Much love!
They called her 'Mary' with Constantine's rise of Christianity as the state religion, in order to keep her Sacred Fire lit, if not physically then mystically in the Sacred Womb of Mary.
She was particular to the Romans, while Gaia herself was earth itself, so that Vesta was the Mother of all born of the earth.
I guess they call her the dirt Mother.
I do wonder if the Vatican does have a Hearth Fire lit to be eternally burning, or like the sacrifices of the Jews' religion, it's all just mystically fulfilled in the spirit of Jehovah and Jupiter.
(P.s. both religions are similar also in that Jehovah was indeed the name of the Word before He became flesh and Son of the Father, while Jupiter was the King of gods and son of Saturn.)
The last Pontifex and priestly collegia to openly practice the religion of Rome, may even have liked to believe that the virgin christ-child was the fulfillment of their ancient religion and Mother Vesta, so had no problem adopting the virgin birth and Scriptural names for their religion.
But, in any case, the Roman Catholic religion is indeed the religion of Ancient Rome with Christian adornment.
I actually find it very fascinating, and have a certain measure of respect for how well they have pulled it off to this day.
Of course, only those initiated into the inner Sacred mysteries will learn this fully, much like the Eleusinian Mysteries of Demeter, who was the Greek likeness of Vesta.
It's sort of like cracking the Da Vinci Code.
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and scripture says hold on to the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 not the false doctrine of the “Bible alone”
mary is his mother not wife
And in the kingly line of david the mother of the king is always the queen
Lk 1:32-33 Jesus is the king so Mary must be the queen
God made Mary what she is and you are blasphemy against God and Christ
Isa 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
notice the Lord shall do this!
Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
Notice this is what God has done!
God made Mary what she is and you are blasphemy against God and Christ
The founders of the Roman Catholic religion made the mystical Mary what she is: Vesta of the Roman religion.
The virgin birth is Scripture, which the leaders of the religion of Rome accepted for cover in their keeping the Sacred Fire of Vesta going, which they now call the Sacred Womb of the Virgin Mother of the earth and fertility: 'Mary' in name only.
The Sacred traditions of the Roman Catholic religion are the continued religion of Rome, which certain Christian teaching and names and titles adopted as a front for themselves, when Constantine made Christianity the official state religion, rather than the religion of Rome of old.
Rejecting the religion of Rome dressed with Christian garb is not blasphemy to the true God of Scripture.
Though it is indeed blasphemy to the ancient religion of Rome and the Sacred traditions thereof.
Which bothers me not in the least.
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