The 'blessed virgin Mary'

[robert derrick]

I have no objection to referring to Mary as the blessed virgin Mary, because every saint in Christ Jesus presented to the Lord, shall be a blessed and chaste virgin (2 Cor 11:2).

All that abide in Christ therefore can be fairly addressed as the blessed virgin 'so and so'.

The only One in heaven that is and ever shall be noticeably and visibly distinct from all others is Jesus, who stands as a slain Lamb in the midst of the throne(Rev 5), i.e. the prints and marks of His crucifixion shall remain in His resurrected body for all to see, as a perpetual reminder of His cross.

Other than Himself, the 12 Apostles of the Lamb, aside from Judas and including Paul, shall be specially remembered in the foundation stones of heavenly New Jerusalem, having their names written in them. Likewise the names of the 12 tribes of Israel shall be remembered by being written on the gates of the that City.

Other than these examples, I see no other blessed saint with Jesus in heaven that is recognized by God as 'special' to Himself and His ministry. None shall be better or worse, higher or lower, honored more or less, nor specially named than any other...

Does anyone know why believers in Jesus are so intent on falsely making Mary a 'perpetual' virgin on earth after she gave birth to Jesus? I know it is a false teaching and woefully vain worshipping, but my question is why?

 

[Jlentz]

As for Catholicism it would be for money and power over people.

 

[robert derrick]

As for Catholicism it would be for money and power over people.

But filthy lucre and dominating 'ministers' do the same with Jesus.

How does creating a mystical Mary do more?

I think it may have something to do with the mystical that impresses people and makes them feel more special than the average schlub.
"Yeah, you have Jesus, but I have Jesus and His mother Mary..." Or some such.

It also creates a loyal following for those who do not put their faith and trust in Jesus only, so you get the believers of Mary added to those of Jesus? Which would create more bodies and money and power over them...

 

[Gary Urban]

I have no objection to referring to Mary as the blessed virgin Mary, because every saint in Christ Jesus presented to the Lord, shall be a blessed and chaste virgin (2 Cor 11:2).

All that abide in Christ therefore can be fairly addressed as the blessed virgin 'so and so'.

The only One in heaven that is and ever shall be noticeably and visibly distinct from all others is Jesus, who stands as a slain Lamb in the midst of the throne(Rev 5), i.e. the prints and marks of His crucifixion shall remain in His resurrected body for all to see, as a perpetual reminder of His cross.

Other than Himself, the 12 Apostles of the Lamb, aside from Judas and including Paul, shall be specially remembered in the foundation stones of heavenly New Jerusalem, having their names written in them. Likewise the names of the 12 tribes of Israel shall be remembered by being written on the gates of the that City.

Other than these examples, I see no other blessed saint with Jesus in heaven that is recognized by God as 'special' to Himself and His ministry. None shall be better or worse, higher or lower, honored more or less, nor specially named than any other...

Does anyone know why believers in Jesus are so intent on falsely making Mary a 'perpetual' virgin on earth after she gave birth to Jesus? I know it is a false teaching and woefully vain worshipping, but my question is why?

I would offer. We are lovingly commanded to study in order to show ourselves approved to our unseen Holy Father. Therefore he has not left us as orphans without interpretations tools .

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Unbelievers that walk after the temporal things seen to not do not look to all things written in the law and prophets .(sola scriptura) So then they must look to the temporal things seen .And therefore forfeit the unseen eternal understanding in parabl which are desined do teach us how to walk after the unseen eternal faith .

The what I call 20 /20 prescription is there for rightly dividing the parables but again they have no faith, the gospel of rest being yoked with Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Christ requires the mixing of the two .The literal historical with the eternal not seen . No mixing . .no rest.

hebrews 4:1-2 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being "mixed" with faith in them that heard it.

 

[Enoch111]

I know it is a false teaching and woefully vain worshipping, but my question is why?

You would have to ask the Early Church Fathers.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have no objection to referring to Mary as the blessed virgin Mary, because every saint in Christ Jesus presented to the Lord, shall be a blessed and chaste virgin (2 Cor 11:2).

All that abide in Christ therefore can be fairly addressed as the blessed virgin 'so and so'.

The only One in heaven that is and ever shall be noticeably and visibly distinct from all others is Jesus, who stands as a slain Lamb in the midst of the throne(Rev 5), i.e. the prints and marks of His crucifixion shall remain in His resurrected body for all to see, as a perpetual reminder of His cross.

Other than Himself, the 12 Apostles of the Lamb, aside from Judas and including Paul, shall be specially remembered in the foundation stones of heavenly New Jerusalem, having their names written in them. Likewise the names of the 12 tribes of Israel shall be remembered by being written on the gates of the that City.

Other than these examples, I see no other blessed saint with Jesus in heaven that is recognized by God as 'special' to Himself and His ministry. None shall be better or worse, higher or lower, honored more or less, nor specially named than any other...

Does anyone know why believers in Jesus are so intent on falsely making Mary a 'perpetual' virgin on earth after she gave birth to Jesus? I know it is a false teaching and woefully vain worshipping, but my question is why?

First of all - where Scripture is concerned, Mary's Perpetual virginity is based on:

1. The fact that Mary, herself, gave her intention to the Angel to remain a virgin in Luke 1:34.
2. The comparison of Mary to the Ark of the Covenant, which was also not to be handled or defiled by the hands of man.
2. The complete and total absence of the mention of her having other children.

As for your charges of "worship" - this is a blatant lie that you were taught and has NO basis in fact.

Now - if you would like to have a charitable discussion on the subject - then let's have one.
Otherwise, I smell another anti-Catholic thread brewing . . .

As for Catholicism it would be for money and power over people.

An this would be your typical idiotic response based solely in ignorance . . .

 

[rstrats]

By a poster in Yahoo answers:
0 - Other than Galations 4:4 saying that the Messiah was born of a woman, why is Mary not mentioned by any of the Apostles in the New Testament Epistles?
Why is Mary not mentioned in the epistle to the Church at Rome?
Why did Peter, (of all people) not refer to Mary in either of his epistles.
Why does the Apostle Peter makes no mention of Mary in his sermon on the Day of Pentecost when thousands heard him?
Why did the Risen Christ not mention Mary, his mother, when he gave 7 individual messages to the Churches in Asia?
Why is there no reference to her in any of the sermons / addresses preached in the Acts of the Apostles covering a period of approx. 30 years?
Why did the Risen Christ not mention Mary, his mother, when he gave 7 individual messages to the Churches in Asia?
He rebukes five of them very severely and warns them to repent. Yet he makes no mention of Mary. Why would he omit to mention his mother if she is so important in aiding recovery of the erring?
Matthew presents the Lord Jesus as King throughout his Gospel. If Mary is *Queen of Heaven why did Matthew make no mention of this in his writings?
*This title is found 5 times in the Book of Jeremiah - 7:18, 44:17, 18, 19, 25. Her worship is condemned by God as an idolatrous pagan practice. The Queen of Heaven was the Assyro-Babylonian goddess Ishtar.
In Matthew 6:9, the Lord Jesus taught his disciples to pray thus - 'Our Father which art in heaven'. Is there any where in the New Testament that it is even hinted that we should pray to Mary? Search the scriptures diligently - you will never find it.
If Mary has such a vital role why was she excluded from the 'Upper Room Ministry' when the Lord gathered the 12 Apostles together for the last time as recorded by John in Ch.13-17?
0 - Why is it that Christ makes no mention of Mary to his disciples in his final great commission to evangelize the world?
0 - Why did Mark say nothing about Mary but merely record what men thought about her?
0 - Why does Mark in Chapter 9 give a preview of the glorified Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration yet he does not even hint that Mary has any glory of her own or that she shares in Christ's?
0 - Why did Luke, who made 12 references to Mary relating to the birth of Christ, only make one more reference to her in his gospel? (It is a very interesting reference).
0 - Why does Luke in Chapter 9 give a preview of the glorified Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration yet he does not even hint that Mary has any part in it?
0 - Why does the gospel of John never mention her name? It mentions Mary of Bethany 9 times by name and Mary Magdalene 5 times.
0 - Why is it that not one of the Apostles knew anything of the following titles attributed to Mary? Queen of heaven, Queen conceived without stain of sin. Ark of the Covenant, Door of heaven, Star of the morning, Healer of the sick, Refuge of sinners, Queen of the angels, Queen of the patriarchs, Queen of the confessors, Queen of all saints, Mystic Rose, Tower of David, Holy Mother of God, Holy Virgin of virgins, Mother of divine grace, Virgin worthy of veneration, Virgin worthy of praise, Powerful virgin, Merciful Virgin, Mirror of righteousness, Throne of wisdom, Source of our joy, Spiritual vessel, Venerable vessel and many more.
0 - Why was no mention made of Mary at the first Council at Jerusalem of the Apostles and Elders as recorded in Acts 15?
0 - Why is it that such a vast 'superstructure' relating to the veneration of Mary is built on such a flimsy foundation? A 'superstructure' that was completely unknown to any of the Apostles in the first century of Christianity.

So to sum up, why do you suppose that none of the New Testament writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit to include any of those doctrines regarding Mary if she is intended to be such a vital part of the Roman/Latin Rite Catholic religion?

 

[dev553344]

I have no objection to referring to Mary as the blessed virgin Mary, because every saint in Christ Jesus presented to the Lord, shall be a blessed and chaste virgin (2 Cor 11:2).

All that abide in Christ therefore can be fairly addressed as the blessed virgin 'so and so'.

The only One in heaven that is and ever shall be noticeably and visibly distinct from all others is Jesus, who stands as a slain Lamb in the midst of the throne(Rev 5), i.e. the prints and marks of His crucifixion shall remain in His resurrected body for all to see, as a perpetual reminder of His cross.

Other than Himself, the 12 Apostles of the Lamb, aside from Judas and including Paul, shall be specially remembered in the foundation stones of heavenly New Jerusalem, having their names written in them. Likewise the names of the 12 tribes of Israel shall be remembered by being written on the gates of the that City.

Other than these examples, I see no other blessed saint with Jesus in heaven that is recognized by God as 'special' to Himself and His ministry. None shall be better or worse, higher or lower, honored more or less, nor specially named than any other...

Does anyone know why believers in Jesus are so intent on falsely making Mary a 'perpetual' virgin on earth after she gave birth to Jesus? I know it is a false teaching and woefully vain worshipping, but my question is why?

I think when discussing the mother of Jesus the Christ he would probably prefer respect and reverence. She was an is the mother of Jesus whether here on earth or in heaven above. She will always be the one that gave birth to him, besides the Father or Holy Spirit.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Does anyone know why believers in Jesus are so intent on falsely making Mary a 'perpetual' virgin on earth after she gave birth to Jesus? I know it is a false teaching and woefully vain worshipping, but my question is why?

Some cults have a thing about celibacy.

I am convinced Mary went on to give birth to other children after she gave birth to Jesus.

Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? (56) And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then has this man all these things?
Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Mary was highly favored by God. I think this is why it is another way of saying this in calling her the blessed virgin,meaning unmarried, Mary.

However she is not coredemptrix, as is taught by the Catholic church.

 

[robert derrick]

I would offer. We are lovingly commanded to study in order to show ourselves approved to our unseen Holy Father. Therefore he has not left us as orphans without interpretations tools .

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Unbelievers that walk after the temporal things seen to not do not look to all things written in the law and prophets .(sola scriptura) So then they must look to the temporal things seen .And therefore forfeit the unseen eternal understanding in parabl which are desined do teach us how to walk after the unseen eternal faith .

The what I call 20 /20 prescription is there for rightly dividing the parables but again they have no faith, the gospel of rest being yoked with Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Christ requires the mixing of the two .The literal historical with the eternal not seen . No mixing . .no rest.

hebrews 4:1-2 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being "mixed" with faith in them that heard it.

And so we Scripture led of the same Spirit that wrote it. Got it. Thanks

 

[robert derrick]

Some cults have a thing about celibacy.

I am convinced Mary went on to give birth to other children after she gave birth to Jesus.

Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? (56) And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then has this man all these things?
Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

There is really no 'convincing' about it. God says plainly that Jesus had brothers and sisters by Mary. No amount of Greek or Latin-sourced intellectualism can change that.

Mary was a good and faithful Israelite woman, that God entrusted to bear His Son, which all faithful and good Israelite women prayed to do in answer to the prophesies of the coming Messiah.

The question remains: Why then proceed to make Mary more than she was, when what she was, a good and faithful Israelite woman, was enough for God?

The problem is carnal man trying to assimilate with God the Spirit and spiritual matters. They just can't help themselves from idolatry and going off into mystical la-la-land.

I really believe this willingness to do so is the carnally minded desire to feel 'special' and particularly 'insightful' in matters pertaining to God.

It's the primary way of thinking too highly of ourselves, by possessing knowledge that is puffed up with no edification for others in the faith.

Look, I have absolutely no problem with fellow Christians who want to do the rosary bead and pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary. I know it is mystical falsehood and deception. I just can't understand, why? We have Jesus, the Father, the Word written plainly for us in our own language, and the Spirit to guide us through it all to the truth.

So, why be sidetracked with a mystical Mary, that Scripture does not support?

Perhaps it is nothing more than helping believers to 'feel good'. And there are plenty of pseudo-intellectual Script readers that are more than glad to supply them with the mystical means to do so.

 

[robert derrick]

Mary was highly favored by God. I think this is why it is another way of saying this in calling her the blessed virgin,meaning unmarried, Mary.

However she is not coredemptrix, as is taught by the Catholic church.

She was blessed virgin Mary, when she gave birth to Jesus. She was blessed mother Mary, when she gave birth to children by Joseph. And she is blessed virgin Mary present with the Lord, as all the dead in Christ are...

 

[robert derrick]

By a poster in Yahoo answers:
0 - Other than Galations 4:4 saying that the Messiah was born of a woman, why is Mary not mentioned by any of the Apostles in the New Testament Epistles?
Why is Mary not mentioned in the epistle to the Church at Rome?
Why did Peter, (of all people) not refer to Mary in either of his epistles.
Why does the Apostle Peter makes no mention of Mary in his sermon on the Day of Pentecost when thousands heard him?
Why did the Risen Christ not mention Mary, his mother, when he gave 7 individual messages to the Churches in Asia?
Why is there no reference to her in any of the sermons / addresses preached in the Acts of the Apostles covering a period of approx. 30 years?
Why did the Risen Christ not mention Mary, his mother, when he gave 7 individual messages to the Churches in Asia?
He rebukes five of them very severely and warns them to repent. Yet he makes no mention of Mary. Why would he omit to mention his mother if she is so important in aiding recovery of the erring?
Matthew presents the Lord Jesus as King throughout his Gospel. If Mary is *Queen of Heaven why did Matthew make no mention of this in his writings?
*This title is found 5 times in the Book of Jeremiah - 7:18, 44:17, 18, 19, 25. Her worship is condemned by God as an idolatrous pagan practice. The Queen of Heaven was the Assyro-Babylonian goddess Ishtar.
In Matthew 6:9, the Lord Jesus taught his disciples to pray thus - 'Our Father which art in heaven'. Is there any where in the New Testament that it is even hinted that we should pray to Mary? Search the scriptures diligently - you will never find it.
If Mary has such a vital role why was she excluded from the 'Upper Room Ministry' when the Lord gathered the 12 Apostles together for the last time as recorded by John in Ch.13-17?
0 - Why is it that Christ makes no mention of Mary to his disciples in his final great commission to evangelize the world?
0 - Why did Mark say nothing about Mary but merely record what men thought about her?
0 - Why does Mark in Chapter 9 give a preview of the glorified Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration yet he does not even hint that Mary has any glory of her own or that she shares in Christ's?
0 - Why did Luke, who made 12 references to Mary relating to the birth of Christ, only make one more reference to her in his gospel? (It is a very interesting reference).
0 - Why does Luke in Chapter 9 give a preview of the glorified Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration yet he does not even hint that Mary has any part in it?
0 - Why does the gospel of John never mention her name? It mentions Mary of Bethany 9 times by name and Mary Magdalene 5 times.
0 - Why is it that not one of the Apostles knew anything of the following titles attributed to Mary? Queen of heaven, Queen conceived without stain of sin. Ark of the Covenant, Door of heaven, Star of the morning, Healer of the sick, Refuge of sinners, Queen of the angels, Queen of the patriarchs, Queen of the confessors, Queen of all saints, Mystic Rose, Tower of David, Holy Mother of God, Holy Virgin of virgins, Mother of divine grace, Virgin worthy of veneration, Virgin worthy of praise, Powerful virgin, Merciful Virgin, Mirror of righteousness, Throne of wisdom, Source of our joy, Spiritual vessel, Venerable vessel and many more.
0 - Why was no mention made of Mary at the first Council at Jerusalem of the Apostles and Elders as recorded in Acts 15?
0 - Why is it that such a vast 'superstructure' relating to the veneration of Mary is built on such a flimsy foundation? A 'superstructure' that was completely unknown to any of the Apostles in the first century of Christianity.

So to sum up, why do you suppose that none of the New Testament writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit to include any of those doctrines regarding Mary if she is intended to be such a vital part of the Roman/Latin Rite Catholic religion?

With a whole lot of words, you make a very simple and sound point.

Mary was a good and faithful Israelite mother, and apparently a good and faithful Israelite believer in Jesus. One good one blessed among others.

And she is probably quite amused and ashamed, and probably doesn't care too much, with mystics posing as professors of Scriptural doctrine, trying to exalt her to some Motherhood of God status.

 

[robert derrick]

I would offer. We are lovingly commanded to study in order to show ourselves approved to our unseen Holy Father.

I love you brother as a brother, but when I hear "lovingly commanded", I just get, well, a feeling of sloppy cringe.

But, that's probably because I am a military man.

Not that your point isn't true. It's just, ughh.

 

[robert derrick]

First of all - where Scripture is concerned, Mary's Perpetual virginity is based on:

1. The fact that Mary, herself, gave her intention to the Angel to remain a virgin in Luke 1:34.
2. The comparison of Mary to the Ark of the Covenant, which was also not to be handled or defiled by the hands of man.
2. The complete and total absence of the mention of her having other children.

As for your charges of "worship" - this is a blatant lie that you were taught and has NO basis in fact.

Now - if you would like to have a charitable discussion on the subject - then let's have one.
Otherwise, I smell another anti-Catholic thread brewing . . .

An this would be your typical idiotic response based solely in ignorance . . .

The comparison of Mary to the Ark of the Covenant, which was also not to be handled or defiled by the hands of man.

So this is more of the defilement by sex argument in Rev 14? Exactly how is it that a husband or wife are defiled by one flesh sex together in the marriage bed, that is undefiled and honorable before God? (Heb 13)

I think the blessed virgin Mary worshippers have a hang up about sex. Maybe because even with a married spouse, they think they are doing a 'dirty deed'.

Sorry. I forgot. You don't worship- the eternally and perpetually Virgin Mary, who never ever had sex with Joseph her husband. You just sort of idolize her.

I have absolutely nothing against our fellow believers in the common faith of Jesus (Jude 1), whether Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, etc... It's the completely unnecessary mysticism and idolatry that Scripture, and therefore I, object to.

Charitable enough?

 

[dev553344]

She was the mother of Jesus. By the time Jesus identified Himself as Jesus Christ in John 17, she was no more mother to Him than any other woman of faith. (Matthew 12)

And she is not mother in heaven above. The only mother we have in heaven above is New Jerusalem, the true ministry of Christ and pictured symbolically in Rev 12. (Gal 4)

This is Bible we are talking about here, not mystically filtered eyes of man.

She will always be the faithful and good Israelite women Go chose in the fullness of time to give birth to His Son by His Spirit.

And then she went on to be a faithful and good Israelite wife, married to a merciful and patient Israelite husband, doing her conjugal duty with pleasure, I am sure to give normal birth to normal boys and girls.

There is absolutely no reason to then go on and make her some mystified spiritual being that can tell Her Son the Resurrected and Ascended Lord Jesus Christ what to do, and when to do it. She couldn't even do that on earth! The only reason Jesus went back with Mary from the temple, was because His Father told Him too. (Luke 2)

If you want to reserve some 'respect and reverence' for a mother, then do so for my mom. Obviously yours doesn't rate so much...

You appear to be trolling so I won't discuss with you further.

 

[robert derrick]

You appear to be trolling so I won't discuss with you further.

"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7)

Trolling is a purposed effort to illicit emotional shock and outrage. Disputation of Scripture is a purposed effort to illicit sound argument from Scripture.

I believe your photo says it all. You will not be missed.

 

[dev553344]

This is an obvious troll message which I did report for the safety of other members:

If you want to reserve some 'respect and reverence' for a mother, then do so for my mom. Obviously yours doesn't rate so much...

 

[Gary Urban]

I love you brother as a brother, but when I hear "lovingly commanded", I just get, well, a feeling of sloppy cringe.

But, that's probably because I am a military man.

Not that your point isn't true. It's just, ughh.

Hi thanks I agree at first ugh. I was also in the miltary drafted in 1966. To me it sounds better than just commanded. In the same way with the word fear. It would seem not to be a commandment of those who rather fear men as hierachy of men usrurping the fear of God having it after the approval of men called fathers .

Psalm 130:3-5 King James Version (KJV) If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. I wait for the Lord, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.

The mercy of God not the Queen of heaven.