The Bliss of Religious Homeostasis - Don't Rock the Boat
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
John 16
The Work of the Holy Spirit
“I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. 5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
This assumes that everyone has had the opportunity to believe in Jesus. That is simply not the case. (in this lifetime)
But there is a Day coming when everyone will meet Him.
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
It simply is the case... The Holy Spirit brings conviction to the whole world as John 16 clearly says...
Right. No gospel. No Jesus. Human conscience. (universalism)
Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts
sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Are you serious ???
I have never encountered such weird train of thought in response to Scripture that dodges the obvious..
Behold
Well-Known Member
Notice John 3:6.
See those?
They are under God's wrath, while they are still alive and if they never trust in Christ and die, they remain under it, and end up in Hell.
Every single one.
Im not certain what cult created your theology, but, you should run from it.
Listen, all Christ rejectors, never born again, who died in the next 15 seconds, go directly to Hell like a bullet.
You cont even post verses, and you try to pretend you are the bible authority.
Ridiculous.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Did you lie to her.... and try to lead her to Hell by telling her she was going to heaven, no matter if she trusted in Christ before she died or not?
Behold
Well-Known Member
Universalism, is a Satanic Doctrine that teaches that sinners can die, never born again on earth, having never trusted in Christ and they'll end up in Heaven with the born again.
Not true.
Universalism was a dominant doctrine in the first five or six centuries of Christianity.
Four out of the six major theological schools taught it.
"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor: "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Paul doesn't Teach it.
The NT does not teach it.
Its a twisting of a couple of verses, in the NT.,
The issue with it is many..
Its a false Gospel
Its a Lie
And its Satanic.
Deceivers teach it, who the NT defines as Satan's minsters.
"Universalism" has no CROSS of Christ in it.........so, that makes its "anti-Cross" and "anti-Christ".
"but behold".......certainly The Cross will be found in eternity, for all unbelievers to believe".
See that?
That's a Lie.....as you can't be born again in Hell.......There is no Cross in Hell.
Sinners, have to be born again, while they are on the earth, .. as that is where it happens or doesn't for everyone.
Universalism...., is a "Hell denying" False Gospel..
Galatians 1:8
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Yes - the obvious is the Status Quo because God has not abandoned the Church to deception.
The church has a free will to believe whatever they want.
Sometimes what they want is indeed deception, in someone's opinion.
(denominational conflicts) The church across the street is considered a cult.
There are obvious differences between denominational doctrines.
And especially between Catholic/Orthodox and Protestant beliefs.
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Yes - no individual or church have everything right but this does not inhibit God's perfect plan.
Most churches preserve some truth's better than others.
I was dramatically called back to ministry in the church after 7 years away and delivered from rejection and cynicism.
I see Him at work on a broad front regardless of imperfections - consider the imperfections in the 12 that He had to deal with - The patience of the Lord is our salvation.
I agree. But how does that square with this previous post? (#113)
Looks like a contradiction?
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Two different definitions of Church...
The very elect can not be deceived.
The visible church is in disarray like the disciples were before the resurrection.
This did not inhibit His perfect plan.
I would say that no one in the Elect has it all right.
Everyone is deceived in some aspect.
The Elect (the Body of Christ) spans all denominations (churches).
Doctrine can differ substantially. A relationship with God is not determined by doctrine.
We don't have to have our doctrine align with an arbitrary status quo to be in a right relationship with God.
What do you think it is about the resurrection that would correct disarray?
The church in the book of Acts appeared to me to be in disarray.
They were certainly misreading the Holy Spirit in terms of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Samaria is a great example. Obviously the Elect were leaning heavily on fleshly form to minister.
Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
1.I would say that no one in the Elect has it all right.
Everyone is deceived in some aspect.
The Elect (the Body of Christ) spans all denominations (churches).
Doctrine can differ substantially. A relationship with God is not determined by doctrine.
We don't have to have our doctrine align with an arbitrary status quo to be in a right relationship with God.
What do you think it is about the resurrection that would correct disarray?
The church in the book of Acts appeared to me to be in disarray.
They were certainly misreading the Holy Spirit in terms of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Samaria is a great example. Obviously the Elect were leaning heavily on fleshly form to minister.
Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...
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Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Clearly it is not possible.
2.
The institutional church includes Wheat and Tares. The real Body of Christ is the 'invisible elect'
God's over-arching Grace makes sure the 'Status Quo' is not arbitary.
3. Interesting - to me the early Church was far closer to the Loving community that Jesus intended.
4. They received the indwelling but not the empowerment. This was because it was normally activated by the laying on of the Apostles hands.
Are false prophets now arising and performing great signs and wonders? (in the end times) Not yet. ???
What qualifies as great signs and wonders?
That supports my point. Anyone that is not Wheat and Tares is the real Body of Christ.
Meaning the Elect today are likely deceived. Again, supporting my point.
Did you receive empowerment by the laying on of the Apostles (capital A) hands?
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