The Body of Christ vs. The Bride of Christ (pt. 3)

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Trekson

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There are a few more scriptures, all in Revelation, that may shed some light on this subject. Rev. 21:2 - I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Rev. 21:9-10 - One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
The two questions we must ask ourselves are: if the church is not the bride then who is? and what exactly is the best description for the church?

In the first two, the bride is the New Jerusalem where all of us, Christian and Jew will eternally reside together as one big, happy family. Rev. 19:7, emphasizes that wedding “has come”, utilizing the same future, present tense as is used to describe that the wrath of the Lamb is about to come in Rev. 6:17. Both clarify the fact that the event being spoken of has not yet occurred but is about to. This scripture is speaking of a time after the seven vials of wrath have been poured out; so from this verse alone the picture of the church as the pre-tribulational bride and our wedding being in heaven for the previous seven years has absolutely no foundation. From this passage we know that the wedding supper will take place after the 70th week is completed and the prophetic Feast of Tabernacles can equate to that wedding supper and that it will occur here on earth.
In the case of the prophetic wedding scenario, I suggest that it will be played out as follows.

We know that the wedding supper takes place here on earth after the 70th week. We know that Christ is depicted as the bridegroom. Everything else is subjective and I don't declare the following as doctrine, just a different way of looking at things. The rest of the wedding party consists of: the bride, her virgin attendants, friends of the bridegroom and finally, the guests. I believe the New Jerusalem will come to earth after the millennium and won't be fully complete as one under God until the millennium is over and the GWTJ where the final members of the family will be added. It is within the description of the New Jerusalem that we find the identity and place for all those who will abide with Him eternally.

It is only because of Israel and God's design through that nation that we are able to enter into the city. There are twelve gates and the names of the twelve tribes of Israel are on those gates. In Rev. 7, God sets aside 12,000 from each tribe totaling 144,000. Guarding those gates are twelve angels. There are 12 foundations and on those are the names of the twelve apostles. The city is built upon Jesus Christ and His gospel which was the message entrusted to the apostles to bring to the world. He is the chief cornerstone and Jesus told Peter that upon him ("this rock") He would build His church or (ek kaleo) "called out ones".

As God the Father and God the Son are one I believe that, spiritually, they will have the same bride which based upon the city and OT teachings I believe is primarily Jewish. So here is how I see it all playing out: The friends of the bridegroom are the 12 apostles and the OT prophets and those Christians whose faithful service and obedience elevates them to that stature. Martyrdom may also play a role here. John the Baptist identified himself as a friend of the bridegroom and I believe he was representative of all the prophets that had come before. The guests are those Gentile and Jewish representatives of humanity that are allowed to enter the millennium after the sheep and goat judgment, to repopulate the earth. ( Matt. 22:2-14 and Matt. 25:31-46, Rev. 19:17 ). Surviving this judgment is what gives them the clothing fit for a wedding.

If you multiply the length of the city of New Jerusalem by either the 12 foundations or the 12 gates you get 144,000. If you multiply the breadth or the height by either the 12 gates or 12 foundations, you get 144,000. The beginning of Rev. 14 tells us that the 144,000 are with Christ wherever he goes, like a bride would be, and they sing a new song that only they can know; perhaps a love song similar to the Song of Solomon. Jesus tells us that there is no marriage in heaven so I conclude that his bride must be an earthly one. The fact that they are either physical or spiritual virgins only emphasizes to me their purity as a bride. In Rev. 7:9 they are sealed and protected, as a bride would be, so I conclude the 144,000 are His bride. The virgin attendants would be the 12 angels that are guarding the gates of the city. They ensure that all who enter are pure and have not entered in by mistake.

As the Body of Christ and as we grow and mature in Him we may acquire a deep, spiritual concern for the welfare of Israel. We want our nation to continue to protect her and we care about her spiritual condition as a groom would for his bride. We pray for her and dread the judgments that God will bring upon her but we also understand that this is necessary for her refinement through fire as we, His body, will also be refined through fire. We share the same concerns as our Best Friend and as the physical manifestation of the Groom's presence on Earth we must do all we can to ensure the safety, purity and well-being of His bride. Therefore I suggest that we, the church as the Body of Christ, are not the bride but are united with Christ as the bridegroom.

There are so many different levels to eternity that we certainly can not know or understand them all, but Daniel tells us that in the end times; knowledge will increase and I believe this includes general human knowledge as well as a new and greater understanding of spiritual truths. Perhaps this one of them and God is calling us to a greater level of concern for Israel as befitting a groom towards a bride. Perhaps this will prepare us for the next level of spiritual warfare, especially when we see another man, the antichrist, try and woo her away from us. I think and hope we will react with a spiritual jealousy and a greater determination to fight the good fight to protect as much of Israel as we can. We surely won't allow the gates of hell to prevail against us and though the scriptures tell us that many of us will be killed, we know that we will still be part of His armies that come to vanquish Satan once and for all, until that time he is let loose for a season at the end of the millennium.

I'm sure many of you will disagree with my assessment but I ask that you pray about it and keep an open mind. I'm sure some of you may feel that I'm robbing you of a special blessing by not being the bride but I think it greater to be part of the groom as members of Christ's body and I can see how this radical viewpoint could unite us Christians under the banner of love for Israel, as that will eventually become a greater concern for us and cause us to not be annoyed by the little things that divide us as a church but instead will unite us as an army who will never give up, who will not allow the god of this world to rest in peace. An army who will take that old song, Onward, Christian Soldiers as a battle cry for this world, who will put on the armor of God so that when that evil day comes, "you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints." ( Eph. 6:13-18 )

Rev. 22:17 - The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. This verse sums it all up for me. In vs. 16 Christ states that this message is for the church. The groom and the bride are (prophetically) complete. When the spirit and the bride say come, they are extending a wedding invitation to the world where; upon acceptance they become part of His Body. We are to partake of the wedding between the Groom and the 144,000, the combined righteous remnant of the tribes of Judah and the tribes of Israel as foretold by prophecy.
 

bbyrd009

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As the Body of Christ and as we grow and mature in Him we may acquire a deep, spiritual concern for the welfare of Israel. We want our nation to continue to protect her...
We want to roll eggs and buy bunnies and do other fertility stuff during Passover too, no offense. Israel is not what some globalists have manufactured as a country wadr
 
D

Dave L

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There are a few more scriptures, all in Revelation, that may shed some light on this subject. Rev. 21:2 - I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Rev. 21:9-10 - One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
The two questions we must ask ourselves are: if the church is not the bride then who is? and what exactly is the best description for the church?

In the first two, the bride is the New Jerusalem where all of us, Christian and Jew will eternally reside together as one big, happy family. Rev. 19:7, emphasizes that wedding “has come”, utilizing the same future, present tense as is used to describe that the wrath of the Lamb is about to come in Rev. 6:17. Both clarify the fact that the event being spoken of has not yet occurred but is about to. This scripture is speaking of a time after the seven vials of wrath have been poured out; so from this verse alone the picture of the church as the pre-tribulational bride and our wedding being in heaven for the previous seven years has absolutely no foundation. From this passage we know that the wedding supper will take place after the 70th week is completed and the prophetic Feast of Tabernacles can equate to that wedding supper and that it will occur here on earth.
In the case of the prophetic wedding scenario, I suggest that it will be played out as follows.

We know that the wedding supper takes place here on earth after the 70th week. We know that Christ is depicted as the bridegroom. Everything else is subjective and I don't declare the following as doctrine, just a different way of looking at things. The rest of the wedding party consists of: the bride, her virgin attendants, friends of the bridegroom and finally, the guests. I believe the New Jerusalem will come to earth after the millennium and won't be fully complete as one under God until the millennium is over and the GWTJ where the final members of the family will be added. It is within the description of the New Jerusalem that we find the identity and place for all those who will abide with Him eternally.

It is only because of Israel and God's design through that nation that we are able to enter into the city. There are twelve gates and the names of the twelve tribes of Israel are on those gates. In Rev. 7, God sets aside 12,000 from each tribe totaling 144,000. Guarding those gates are twelve angels. There are 12 foundations and on those are the names of the twelve apostles. The city is built upon Jesus Christ and His gospel which was the message entrusted to the apostles to bring to the world. He is the chief cornerstone and Jesus told Peter that upon him ("this rock") He would build His church or (ek kaleo) "called out ones".

As God the Father and God the Son are one I believe that, spiritually, they will have the same bride which based upon the city and OT teachings I believe is primarily Jewish. So here is how I see it all playing out: The friends of the bridegroom are the 12 apostles and the OT prophets and those Christians whose faithful service and obedience elevates them to that stature. Martyrdom may also play a role here. John the Baptist identified himself as a friend of the bridegroom and I believe he was representative of all the prophets that had come before. The guests are those Gentile and Jewish representatives of humanity that are allowed to enter the millennium after the sheep and goat judgment, to repopulate the earth. ( Matt. 22:2-14 and Matt. 25:31-46, Rev. 19:17 ). Surviving this judgment is what gives them the clothing fit for a wedding.

If you multiply the length of the city of New Jerusalem by either the 12 foundations or the 12 gates you get 144,000. If you multiply the breadth or the height by either the 12 gates or 12 foundations, you get 144,000. The beginning of Rev. 14 tells us that the 144,000 are with Christ wherever he goes, like a bride would be, and they sing a new song that only they can know; perhaps a love song similar to the Song of Solomon. Jesus tells us that there is no marriage in heaven so I conclude that his bride must be an earthly one. The fact that they are either physical or spiritual virgins only emphasizes to me their purity as a bride. In Rev. 7:9 they are sealed and protected, as a bride would be, so I conclude the 144,000 are His bride. The virgin attendants would be the 12 angels that are guarding the gates of the city. They ensure that all who enter are pure and have not entered in by mistake.

As the Body of Christ and as we grow and mature in Him we may acquire a deep, spiritual concern for the welfare of Israel. We want our nation to continue to protect her and we care about her spiritual condition as a groom would for his bride. We pray for her and dread the judgments that God will bring upon her but we also understand that this is necessary for her refinement through fire as we, His body, will also be refined through fire. We share the same concerns as our Best Friend and as the physical manifestation of the Groom's presence on Earth we must do all we can to ensure the safety, purity and well-being of His bride. Therefore I suggest that we, the church as the Body of Christ, are not the bride but are united with Christ as the bridegroom.

There are so many different levels to eternity that we certainly can not know or understand them all, but Daniel tells us that in the end times; knowledge will increase and I believe this includes general human knowledge as well as a new and greater understanding of spiritual truths. Perhaps this one of them and God is calling us to a greater level of concern for Israel as befitting a groom towards a bride. Perhaps this will prepare us for the next level of spiritual warfare, especially when we see another man, the antichrist, try and woo her away from us. I think and hope we will react with a spiritual jealousy and a greater determination to fight the good fight to protect as much of Israel as we can. We surely won't allow the gates of hell to prevail against us and though the scriptures tell us that many of us will be killed, we know that we will still be part of His armies that come to vanquish Satan once and for all, until that time he is let loose for a season at the end of the millennium.

I'm sure many of you will disagree with my assessment but I ask that you pray about it and keep an open mind. I'm sure some of you may feel that I'm robbing you of a special blessing by not being the bride but I think it greater to be part of the groom as members of Christ's body and I can see how this radical viewpoint could unite us Christians under the banner of love for Israel, as that will eventually become a greater concern for us and cause us to not be annoyed by the little things that divide us as a church but instead will unite us as an army who will never give up, who will not allow the god of this world to rest in peace. An army who will take that old song, Onward, Christian Soldiers as a battle cry for this world, who will put on the armor of God so that when that evil day comes, "you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints." ( Eph. 6:13-18 )

Rev. 22:17 - The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. This verse sums it all up for me. In vs. 16 Christ states that this message is for the church. The groom and the bride are (prophetically) complete. When the spirit and the bride say come, they are extending a wedding invitation to the world where; upon acceptance they become part of His Body. We are to partake of the wedding between the Groom and the 144,000, the combined righteous remnant of the tribes of Judah and the tribes of Israel as foretold by prophecy.
Keep in mind the book of Revelation is symbolic. You need to understand what the symbol represents instead of looking for literal fulfillment of the symbol. Red dragons, beasts, green horses, you will never see. But what they represent has been with the human race since John wrote Revelation.
 
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Keraz

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The new nation of Beulah:

Isaiah 62:1-2a For Zion’s sake, I shall not keep silent – until her victory shines forth, like the sunrise, her victory like a blazing torch. The nations will see your victory and their rulers your glory.

Isaiah prophesies for the sake of Zion; the holy Land. There will be a great victory, ‘like a blazing torch’ - a CME sunstrike over the attacking enemies an cleansing all the holy land. Isaiah 30:25-30 & 66:15-16, Psalms 11:4-6 The world will see it and be amazed. Jeremiah 33:6-16

Isaiah 62:2b-5 You will receive a new name, the Lord Himself will give it. You will be like a glorious crown in His hand. No more are you forsaken and your Land desolate. You will be called ‘Hephzibah’ and the Land, ‘Beulah’. For the Lord will delight in you and it will be like a marriage: He will rejoice over you as a bridegroom over his bride.
‘Hephzibah’ = My delight is in her. ‘Beulah’ = married. Isaiah 49:18

The Lord’s people, Christian Israelites will be gathered and settled into their heritage, all of the holy Land, in the new nation of Beulah. Wonderful promises to them of fertility and wealth. They will live in justice, peace and security, as He always intended people to be.
 

CoreIssue

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Israel is the wife of God, not Christ. The church the bride of Christ.

The new covenant will be to the houses of Judah and Israel, not the church.,

Gentiles are Gentiles, not Jews. Jews compose Israel, not Gentiles.

Israel and church are coheirs, not the same heir.
 

Trekson

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We want to roll eggs and buy bunnies and do other fertility stuff during Passover too, no offense. Israel is not what some globalists have manufactured as a country wadr

Our concern shouldn't be everyone and everything Israel but for the 144,000+ who will come out of the present anti-Christ nation.
 

Trekson

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Keep in mind the book of Revelation is symbolic. You need to understand what the symbol represents instead of looking for literal fulfillment of the symbol. Red dragons, beasts, green horses, you will never see. But what they represent has been with the human race since John wrote Revelation.

I disagree, the book of Rev. is a book that has some symbolism in it like most of the bible does. If all you read is symbolism, you have no chance of understanding the truth. You might as well consider Egyptian hieroglyphics gospel as well.
 
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Dave L

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I disagree, the book of Rev. is a book that has some symbolism in it like most of the bible does. If all you read is symbolism, you have no chance of understanding the truth. You might as well consider Egyptian hieroglyphics gospel as well.
The rule "literal whenever possible" doesn't work in Revelation. Because it contradicts the rest of NT scripture on the spiritual nature of the kingdom. And the NT's definition of the Jews and Israel. Among other things. If you start there, and then go to Revelation, you stand a chance of understanding some of it.
 

Trekson

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Israel is the wife of God, not Christ. The church the bride of Christ.

The new covenant will be to the houses of Judah and Israel, not the church.,

Gentiles are Gentiles, not Jews. Jews compose Israel, not Gentiles.

Israel and church are coheirs, not the same heir.

So all you can see is eternal separation and no unity between the two? It seems odd to me seeing as how unity is one of the main teachings of Paul. I kinda see the new covenant as the whole basis for the new testament. From the book Heb. 8:8-12, I only see vs. 11 remaining unfulfilled, imo, the rest of it is fulfilled in the church and it will be in future Israel as well.
 

CoreIssue

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The rule "literal whenever possible" doesn't work in Revelation. Because it contradicts the rest of NT scripture on the spiritual nature of the kingdom. And the NT's definition of the Jews and Israel. Among other things. If you start there, and then go to Revelation, you stand a chance of understanding some of it.

It contradicts nothing and a figurative expression with a known literal meaning is considered literal.
 

CoreIssue

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So all you can see is eternal separation and no unity between the two? It seems odd to me seeing as how unity is one of the main teachings of Paul. I kinda see the new covenant as the whole basis for the new testament. From the book Heb. 8:8-12, I only see vs. 11 remaining unfulfilled, imo, the rest of it is fulfilled in the church and it will be in future Israel as well.

Note I see eternal unity.
 
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Dave L

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It contradicts nothing and a figurative expression with a known literal meaning is considered literal.
A literal interpretation of Revelation contradicts the NT teaching on the spiritual nature of the Kingdom. And the Church being Israel and the broken off unbelieving Jews being gentiles, among other things.
 

CoreIssue

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A literal interpretation of Revelation contradicts the NT teaching on the spiritual nature of the Kingdom. And the Church being Israel and the broken off unbelieving Jews being gentiles, among other things.

Who says spiritual doesn't have a literal foundation and meaning?