The Body

[aspen]

???

I am baffled how anyone can find the intimate union of the Groom and HIS bride impersonal.

Peace be with you!

Ha - yeah I know. The internal part of Mass is great. It’s the part where you interact with others who you see everyday, yet they remain complete strangers.

 

[aspen]

The impersonal nature of Mass seems to be the rule, but there are exceptions. My cousins found a great pastor at their local college, and just love the fellowship. it's one of those things that just seems to happen, but there's this inertia of centuries of mindless ritual. I take my mother to Mass occasionally, and nobody seems to know why they do anything anymore. When I was a kid, I was not only taught all that I was supposed to do on the alter, but I was told why, and what for. I knew what I was doing and why I was doing it. Now, people sit, stand, kneel, and the priests don't even seem to know why they're doing what they're doing anymore.

I've always thought Quakers were intriguing. I don't know why I've never been to a Quaker meeting. I think their method is fascinating.

Yeah, your cousin probably found a Newman Center, which is campus ministry- they are great. I go to a Newman Center for prayer and a Bible study.

 

[Philip James]

Ha - yeah I know. The internal part of Mass is great. It’s the part where you interact with others who you see everyday, yet they remain complete strangers.

So say hello after Mass! If you xan catch em before the scream out of the parking lot lol

Seriously though, yeah noninvolment with our neighbours is a problem, one that I think our current culture and urbanization breeds.. Sad but true, we are taught to fear the stranger rather than embrace them... Fear is ever the enemy of love...

Peace!

 

[shnarkle]

Quakers are great - there are two main branches - I go to the one that has a minister and sticks closely to the Bible. They are not the silent Quakers - which I discovered, were formed after WWII - I thought they were much older.

I'm interested in that branch as much as the other one. I've heard those meetings are much more insightful. I used to go to an AA "meditation meeting" years ago that was so much better than the regular meetings I went to. From what little I know about that branch of Quakers, it's basically the same story.

This branch is from the 1600s. The only issue I have is their interpretation of the nature of God - many of them reject the Trinity - however, the official stance is that The nature of God cannot be defined and I can live with that.

it seems irrefutable. How can one define an incomparable, or transcendent God? By definition, it is undefinable.

 

[shnarkle]

Yeah, your cousin probably found a Newman Center, which is campus ministry- they are great. I go to a Newman Center for prayer and a Bible study.

Yep, that's it. I couldn't remember the name, but that's it.

 

[shnarkle]

So say hello after Mass! If you xan catch em before the scream out of the parking lot lol

Seriously though, yeah noninvolment with our neighbours is a problem, one that I think our current culture and urbanization breeds.. Sad but true, we are taught to fear the stranger rather than embrace them... Fear is ever the enemy of love...

Peace!

I don't think it's necessarily fear. Metropolitan areas are swarming with poverty. The homeless are a fixture of big city streets whereas out in much more rural or country settings, they're something to be investigated, and dealt with immediately. People in the country haven't been desensitized to the phenomenon of perpetual destitution.

 

[amadeus]

NOPE! ACTION is called for:

Matt. 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. -- or better rendered: ... the kingdom of heaven is obtained by pursuit. And pursuers take it by ardent action.​

The problem is, -- people want to be spoon fed with diet of milk. But that's not how the kingdom of heaven is obtained. You have to go into the wilderness and HEAR FROM GOD FIRSTHAND. Or, -- be content with what people regurgitate.

Yeah thanks, but I'll chew my own meat,
Bobby Jo

"And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm:
Manasseh, Ephraim; and Ephraim, Manasseh: and they together shall be against Judah. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still." Isaiah 9:20-21

 

[amadeus]

???

I am baffled how anyone can find the intimate union of the Groom and HIS bride impersonal.

Peace be with you!

The problem would exist for any person in any service or mass, Protestant or Catholic or other, where the person has no intimate connection with God. Jesus expressed the ideal here:

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

People come together in fellowship even at times, but when they are NOT gathered In His Name they ultimately will find it quite impersonal. Jesus is not in it.

There may even be others gathered In His Name where you physically meet with others, but you, remaining a disinterested observer, are all alone... No personal relationship with people or with Jesus...

 

[amadeus]

it seems irrefutable. How can one define an incomparable, or transcendent God? By definition, it is undefinable.

Undefinable in men's words to men with no vision from God, but what is impossible for God who is able to write things in our heart?

 

[Giuliano]

???

I am baffled how anyone can find the intimate union of the Groom and HIS bride impersonal.

Peace be with you!

Perhaps they do not "perceive" something if their minds are only on what's happening physically. That would almost be like a man and a woman having sex and forgetting they love each other on their wedding night. They loved each other -- or at least thought they did -- before the wedding, but forgot about that love after the wedding when they became intimate.

 

[Philip James]

Perhaps they do not "perceive" something if their minds are only on what's happening physically. That would almost be like a man and a woman having sex and forgetting they love each other on their wedding night. They loved each other -- or at least thought they did -- before the wedding, but forgot about that love after the wedding when they became intimate.

'remember your first love' comes to mind..

Peace!

 

[Giuliano]

'remember your first love' comes to mind..

Peace!

Excellent! You got a "like" for that.

Edit to add: I left and then what you said brought another passage to my mind.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Now I'm wondering if too much entertainment at church meetings might be a distraction. It might make people forget why they're there? Hmmm.

 

[Giuliano]

The problem would exist for any person in any service or mass, Protestant or Catholic or other, where the person has no intimate connection with God. Jesus expressed the ideal here:

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

People come together in fellowship even at times, but when they are NOT gathered In His Name they ultimately will find it quite impersonal. Jesus is not in it.

There may even be others gathered In His Name where you physically meet with others, but you, remaining a disinterested observer, are all alone... No personal relationship with people or with Jesus...

Some may not recognize what's going on at once. The men on the road to Emmaus didn't. When Jesus showed up, they didn't recognize him at once; but they liked him though and wanted him to stay with them so he did.

Luke 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

I doubt they were too bothered by him vanishing to their physical eyes. He could still be with them.

 

[amadeus]

Some may not recognize what's going on at once. The men on the road to Emmaus didn't. When Jesus showed up, they didn't recognize him at once; but they liked him though and wanted him to stay with them so he did.

Luke 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

I doubt they were too bothered by him vanishing to their physical eyes. He could still be with them.

Even so! People who believe in God and His Son are not all in the same place for different reasons. They are young in the Lord, or they are old in the Lord, or they are different parts of the Body of Christ. Of course, there are some among us who are "tares among the wheat". All of these we likely have in each service or mass or gathering of people supposedly to worship God or to pray to God or to whatever it is we gather to do.

Your mention of those on the road to Emmaus is a good example for sometimes we are really unable to see clearly in the moment, but something within us is still maintaining the connection with the Head and with other parts of the Body of Christ. We are still moving, or are supposed to be moving, from the darkened glass toward the face to face. David understood and searched. Do we?

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[Giuliano]

Even so! People who believe in God and His Son are not all in the same place for different reasons. They are young in the Lord, or they are old in the Lord, or they are different parts of the Body of Christ. Of course, there are some among us who are "tares among the wheat". All of these we likely have in each service or mass or gathering of people supposedly to worship God or to pray to God or to whatever it is we gather to do.

Your mention of those on the road to Emmaus is a good example for sometimes we are really unable to see clearly in the moment, but something within us is still maintaining the connection with the Head and with other parts of the Body of Christ. We are still moving, or are supposed to be moving, from the darkened glass toward the face to face. David understood and searched. Do we?

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

I really like the passage about looking in a mirror darkly. It tells me to wash away any dirt I can so my mind can reflect better.

Why were the "mirrors" in the Tabernacle place by the laver of brass that contained the water? I pondered that for a long time until I connected that with what Paul said.

 

[bbyrd009]

The BEST thing about a few guys getting together, rather than going to "church", is that the FEW GUYS is what 1 Cor. 14:26 specifies as the CORRECT way to worship TOGETHER

dont be writing that in stone imo, "gathered" organically In Service might be better

 

[bbyrd009]

mirror darkly. It tells me to wash away any dirt I can so my mind can reflect better.

i would say that the problem then will be that you will make arbitrary decisions about what is "dirt" and what is not, even though they will surely be the socially acceptable ones? Maybe this is why the pimps and whores beat us into the kingdom?

Could you describe the (spiritual) dirt an avg three year old possesses? Although this washing sounds like a good thing to do, i think the outside of the cup is all that can be washed that way. It makes clones, not overcomers. Understand why someone who has assumed the place between you and Christ might prefer clones? Not that protestantism is essentially any diff there i guess, we have Jesus between us and Christ, but nonetheless...

 

[bbyrd009]

we seek to learn something that can only be experienced, i guess

 

[amadeus]

I really like the passage about looking in a mirror darkly. It tells me to wash away any dirt I can so my mind can reflect better.

Why were the "mirrors" in the Tabernacle place by the laver of brass that contained the water? I pondered that for a long time until I connected that with what Paul said.

What we are looking at is ourselves, but how well can a person really see himself? Without a mirror much of our own carnal body of flesh cannot be seen by us. But, we are to look for and somehow eradicate flaws or as you put it 'wash away dirt'. It is a laver, a place where the priests were to wash their hands and their feet...

"For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:" Ex 30:19

"And he made the laver of brass, and the foot of it of brass, of the lookingglasses of the women assembling, which assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation." Ex 38:8

The laver and the looking glasses are the scriptures or better said, The Word of God, if we are able to properly understand and apply it to ourselves. Looking only at the Bible a person alone cannot see the Word of God although many people say that they can. The ones able to see are still seeing at a level somewhat less well than "face to face".

 

[JohnPaul]

NOPE! ACTION is called for:

Matt. 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. -- or better rendered: ... the kingdom of heaven is obtained by pursuit. And pursuers take it by ardent action.​

The problem is, -- people want to be spoon fed with diet of milk. But that's not how the kingdom of heaven is obtained. You have to go into the wilderness and HEAR FROM GOD FIRSTHAND. Or, -- be content with what people regurgitate.

Yeah thanks, but I'll chew my own meat,
Bobby Jo

You’re a strong guy Bobby Jo.