THE BOOK OF MORMON - A Re-Title Exercise

[Jane_Doe22]

While you may have a different understanding of these beliefs, I don't think it is your personal beliefs that are under investigation here... It is the doctrine of Mormonism. The teachings of the LDS church you belong to, and those questions I think are being asked of the church. Now you claim to represent that church, yet you avoid confirming that your church actually teaches these things, things which others have provided definitive proof of their existence. You have before declared that we misunderstand those doctrines, offer is your personal interpretation which consistently contradicts that which your church openly teaches.

You and I have had this conversation many times @Backlit . Actual teachings versus what you think are teaching are different things, many times the misrepresentations spread by the same folks whom falsely slander your SDA denomination. I've spoken with you explaining my own beliefs, and spoken bluntly about how "if you want to know what SDA folks believe, ask an SDA person. Don't read some other site quoting Ellen White".

Is there any benefit in repeating this same conversation again?

 

[Brakelite]

You and I have had this conversation many times @Backlit . Actual teachings versus what you think are teaching are different things, many times the misrepresentations spread by the same folks whom falsely slander your SDA denomination. I've spoken with you explaining my own beliefs, and spoken bluntly about how "if you want to know what SDA folks believe, ask an SDA person. Don't read some other site quoting Ellen White".

Is there any benefit in repeating this same conversation again?

This isn't about SDA beliefs, there an entire thread devoted to that, and none of the adventists on this forum have died away from explaining exactly what our doctrines are. And you are correct, that many don't bother to ask an Adventist what their church's doctrines actually teach, not take the time to actually genuinely investigate biblically whether they agree with scripture, or not. And I appreciate the fact that indeed you have spoken in defense of making genuine inquiries, of genuine people, and not asking the enemies of those people. We adventists aren't shy to post exactly what our church teaches, defend it, and quote if necessary Ellen White and other of our pioneers to prove the reasons for our faith.
The question was asked regarding LDS beliefs, was God once human, and can we as humans, become gods. This is LDS doctrine. We have all seen the quotes from your own LDS church sites and books of authority within your church. Your answer...

I know for sure that the Son of God did indeed live a mortal life. Through His great sacrifice I can become a joint-heir of Christ, becoming perfected and one with Him & the Father (John 17). This isn't "evolution", rather its God's great and marvelous redeeming power. I'm never going to replace my Father or Savior, but I do indeed hope to be one with them.

Is a complete dodge. We aren't talking about Jesus, we are talking about the Father. Was He once human as we are, and can we become gods like Him, have wives, beget human children who in turn may become gods? This is, from what I have read from your own sources, what LDS doctrines teach. True or false? And what is the biblical foundations for accepting this?
Now this is a simple question. It is unlike the questions brought to adventists, because those opposed to adventism don't actually come to us with what we actually teach and quoting our own sources... They more often quote other sources, which state opinions and not our actual doctrine, which means we end up debating opinion. I am not interested in offering you my opinion of LDS doctrine. I'm just giving LDS doctrine as quoted by your own church, and asking you, is that real?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

This isn't about SDA beliefs, there an entire thread devoted to that, and none of the adventists on this forum have died away from explaining exactly what our doctrines are. And you are correct, that many don't bother to ask an Adventist what their church's doctrines actually teach, not take the time to actually genuinely investigate biblically whether they agree with scripture, or not. And I appreciate the fact that indeed you have spoken in defense of making genuine inquiries, of genuine people, and not asking the enemies of those people. We adventists aren't shy to post exactly what our church teaches, defend it, and quote if necessary Ellen White and other of our pioneers to prove the reasons for our faith.

I likewise don't shy away from things.
When the anti person is just presenting straw man & not bothering to listen to how that straw man is inaccurate, that doesn't suddenly make the straw man argument true. No, rather is just reveals that the accuser has no interest in truth or saving souls. This goes for anti-SDA folks and their off-base accusations, as well as anti-LDS folks and their arguments.

The question was asked regarding LDS beliefs, was God once human, and can we as humans, become gods. This is LDS doctrine. We have all seen the quotes from your own LDS church sites and books of authority within your church. Your answer...


Is a complete dodge. We aren't talking about Jesus, we are talking about the Father. Was He once human as we are, and can we become gods like Him, have wives, beget human children who in turn may become gods? This is, from what I have read from your own sources, what LDS doctrines teach. True or false? And what is the biblical foundations for accepting this?

Breaking this down into the two subjects it is, and I'm going to VERY blunt here:

1) The Father's history: not actually LDS Christian doctrine. There are 2 *speculative* quotes that even touch on the subject, and even then that's not the focus of those quotes. These are extremely seldom talked about in LDS Christian church, and on that once-in-a-decade time there's a lot of different views on them sitting on the same pew. The most common being that the Son is like the Father in that regard-- Christ's mortal life here isn't a "dodge" at all. Zero of those views are those held by Creedal Christians, because LDS Christians aren't Creedal Christians. And yet: Anti-Mormon accusers pretend like this is some central tent pole thing. It's not. And no, "well Joseph Smith said it so it must be Mormon doctrine" also isn't fact. Joseph Smith was a sinner, and fallible. He is not the center of my faith.

2) Becoming like God: this is doctrine, but how things are stated is super important. The following statement is false: "Mormons believe that men evolve to become God". No! Rather, this statement is accurate: "LDS Christians believe that God has the power to redeem His people, to the degree that they are pure white clean, even as He is. Christ's atonement was so that His disciples can become one with the Father & the Son. Yes, one with God, joining Him, like Him."

 

[theefaith]

And no water baptism required.

not for justification Mk 16:16 but as ordain priests for ministry

 

[ReChoired]

[41] Too bad that bear back there, ate my first wife, but she's still mine in the afterlife; some may think I do not care, but that's ok, because I married a spare, and while that may not of the state be bigamy, in Mormon sealing doctrine it is fully accepted and practiced polygamy. In LDS land all may have as many wives as they will, and since I'm the prophet Joseph Smith, I'll take your wives to be mine still. Beyond the hill or under the age, it's all blessed of Mormon 'Jesus', that every man have as much 'fun' as he can engage. If she happens to be your daughter, I'll look the other way, for I happened to be eyeing my own for a gown just the other day. No worries about being arrested by setting the wedding date, by the time this is all known, we'll own our own state. Eat, drink and be merry, with all the wives you can carry. My time is almost done in carousing in any case, for I'll be shot through before long and fall headlong as Judas before me who went to his own place. As I tumble down like Lucifer the fallen angel, I'll be sure to give the final sign of distress, the Masonic Compass and Angle. Bury me in a pine box I do not care, just don't let them see me in my magick underwear.

 

[ReChoired]

[42] LOST! The original script.

[43] Convincing the New World to speak and write in the AD1611 King James English hundreds of years before it was popular.

[44] Praying to the gods of Masonry so that all the anachronisms will not be found until after I die.

[45] The New Native American culture, how to eat, dress, fight, speak, live and bank like 17th century Europeans.

[46] I came to the Americas looking for Conquistadors, and all I found were Lame-men-ites, who only knew how to knee-fight.

[47] The horse whisperer - A how to, on telling everyone in a low voice that the people's of the America's had horses during the period of the events as recorded, and even if they didn't, well just keep whispering it until people believe it.

[48] JOSEPH SMITH - picking up the ball of true religion where 'God' dropped it nearly 2000 years ago, an all new phantasy series.

[49] A 'god' incarnality, Sex, sex, sex, the mark of a beast.

[50] O 'GOD'!!!, The cry of endless celestial sex.

[51] The Archtiects' Pen Is The Big Omnipotent, 'Hanging' with 'God' & creating the Big Blue Ball.

[52] Lectures of Joseph Smith on the new science falsely so called, edumacating the masses in apostasy and ancient incestry.

[53] Clarifying what God meant in the Bible.

[54] "Writer's cramp, a tale of nothing new under the sun." One day they'll make a movie out of this script. I hope they call it Battlestar Galactica.

[55] Pleasing Fables to tickle your ears before you sleep.

[56] Joseph Smith, the profit of 'God' - a likely story.

 

[theefaith]

That’s what the burned over district” produced

spooks and kooks!

 

[theefaith]

THE BOOK OF MORMON - A Re-Title Exercise

A test of mental skill and artistic ability:

A single picture has just been given to you, representing the heart of a brand new Phantasy Fiction Novel of a dangerous religious sci-fi adventure, which was once tentatively titled the "Book of Mormon", but whose title was extremely lethargic, incompetent and impotent, and thus needs a new captivating, brilliant and viril name:

Here is the phantastic picture:

Now, you, dear reader, get to re-name this classic failure of phantasy. Who will take up the challenge? Who will reforge this hodgepodge of ecclesiastical action fiction into a new sword of mythology?

Cite this entire post, and place your names:

Some starter suggestions:

[1] Buried Talents

[2] Ohh,... I shouldn't have eaten that burrito before I came out here ...

[3] The Final Resting Place Of The Fool's Gold

[4] Do Liars Really Pray? - A Cockamamie Tale

[5] Just Imagine -- Shot While Falling Out A Prison Window, And For What?

[6] Wishful Thinking - The Story Begins

[7] Ommmm, I AM ... Ommmmm ... I AM ... Ommmm, 'Hello.' ... I AM ... Ommmm, I AM, "Wait!? What?!!!, Who's There?" "I thought it was just me out here. ...", 'Oh, ok, forget I said anything then.' ... ...

[8] *Whew*, carrying these gold things all the way out here is gonna be the death of me, better pray before ... - *croak*, *ack*, *thud* ...

[9] ArchaeoLIEogical Records: Once upon a time that never was in a place that never existed ...

[10] No one will ever find my comic book for specially challenged people way out here ...

heretics hollow!

 

[dev553344]

heretics hollow!

I was Mormon for 10 years and felt the Holy Spirit with power many times and often. He would question me of whether the Mormon religion was true. And I could not answer.

I read the Book of Mormon a few times and the Holy Bible. When I would read the Holy Bible I would feel the Holy Spirit, but when I read the Book of Mormon I would not.

Thus I never received a testimony of the Mormon Church. But I enjoyed the meetings although they are a little lengthy for my attention span.

 

[theefaith]

I was Mormon for 10 years and felt the Holy Spirit with power many times and often. He would question me of whether the Mormon religion was true. And I could not answer.

I read the Book of Mormon a few times and the Holy Bible. When I would read the Holy Bible I would feel the Holy Spirit, but when I read the Book of Mormon I would not.

Thus I never received a testimony of the Mormon Church. But I enjoyed the meetings although they are a little lengthy for my attention span.

I feel the breathing of the spirit when I read the Bible and the church fathers!

 

[dev553344]

I feel the breathing of the spirit when I read the Bible and the church fathers!

I've never read the church fathers, what is that?

 

[theefaith]

I've never read the church fathers, what is that?

go to churchfathers.org

The disciples and successors of the apostles and early church leaders

 

[Pearl]

I was Mormon for 10 years and felt the Holy Spirit with power many times and often. He would question me of whether the Mormon religion was true. And I could not answer.

I read the Book of Mormon a few times and the Holy Bible. When I would read the Holy Bible I would feel the Holy Spirit, but when I read the Book of Mormon I would not.

Thus I never received a testimony of the Mormon Church. But I enjoyed the meetings although they are a little lengthy for my attention span.

It's only ever the Holy Spirit that makes the bible come alive. We knew a man who used to be a Muslim and when asked what made him become a Christian he said it was the Holy Spirit.

 

[dev553344]

go to churchfathers.org

The disciples and successors of the apostles and early church leaders

I went there and they had two sections that I don't believe are correct. Mary the ever virgin, which she had children other than Jesus. Also she is said to be without sin, which cannot be true since we are all born into sinful bodies per the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[dev553344]

It's only ever the Holy Spirit that makes the bible come alive. We knew a man who used to be a Muslim and when asked what made him become a Christian he said it was the Holy Spirit.

It is true. The Holy Spirit is my only desire. To feel that love, peace and joy and other fruits of the Holy Spirit for time and all eternity. I think of what can you give a spirit as a blessing after this life, before we are resurrected. And the thing that makes me happy is the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23)

 

[theefaith]

It's only ever the Holy Spirit that makes the bible come alive. We knew a man who used to be a Muslim and when asked what made him become a Christian he said it was the Holy Spirit.

does that include Dan 13?

 

[theefaith]

Hi Pat
Hope your well!

 

[theefaith]

I went there and they had two sections that I don't believe are correct. Mary the ever virgin, which she had children other than Jesus. Also she is said to be without sin, which cannot be true since we are all born into sinful bodies per the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

both are true!

 

[dev553344]

both are true!

Yes, you are Catholic, I watch Catholic Mass for the bible readings, but I do not follow Catholic doctrine as some of it is absurd.

 

[theefaith]

Yes, you are Catholic, I watch Catholic Mass for the bible readings, but I do not follow Catholic doctrine as some of it is absurd.

Biblical Mary!


And the birth of our Saviour is one that Mary, herself, with her freewill, said "YES", and delivered salvation for all mankind. Lk 1:38

Biblical Mary, mother of God, ever Virgin, sinless, mother of our salvation!

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary!
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity

Without Mary being immaculate the Holy Spirit could not conceive the son of God in Her!

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30 and cos she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

Spiritual Mother Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17

Mother of the creator is mother of all creation!

Mother of the Redeemer is the mother of all the redeemed!

Mother of our Savior is the mother of all those who obtain salvation!
Lk 1:30


All generations call me blessed! Lk 1:
Thanksgiving in praise of Mary for bearing our savior! Matt 1:23 And finding our salvation! Lk 1:30


Praise honor veneration and devotion redound to the Glory of God who created Mary immaculate Lk 1:49 as Christ source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17

Praise, honor, veneration, and devotion are not worship, worship requires intent!