The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[rebuilder 454]

QUOTE
"Now, post a single verse that says there is a pre-trib rapture....there are ZERO. They all refer to the 2nd coming."

Actually I have many in contrast to your zero.
1) Acts 1
2) Mat 24
3) Mat 25
4) 1 thes 4
5) Rev 14:14-15
6) Rev 13
7) Rev 3 the escape verse by Jesus.
8) Luke 17
9) The last super dialog
10) The other escape verse... "pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the Earth and stand before the son of man."

Now on top of all that, your doctrine demands that the 144,000 MUST BE REFRAMED, And the Jewish gathering of Romans chapters 9-11, be reframed.

You need all that cast off the table over a trumpet verse.

That is a ton of omission and bible changes you need to become a postribber.( trumpet centered)

You were in the right camp previous, but were not centered in the bible personally.

Oh..I forgot.
Why are ONLY THE 144,000 SEALED against the flying scorpions??????
The church that is supposedly there get stung repeatedly ????

You don't suppose they are not there to be sealed?

Maybe they are in heaven as the Bible teaches clearly?

 

[shepherdsword]

1) the last trump is blown every year at the feast of trumpets.
2) thinking there can only be a limited dynamic to "trumps, trumpets and last trump" is a poor foundation when Jesus himself taught a pretrib rapture.
3) when Jesus appeared to John on patmos, his voice was like a trumpet when he spoke.
Was that the last trump, or the trump, or the 7th trumpet?

Used to be pretrib ?
What verses did you omit, and what verses "showed you the light"?

The last Trumpet means the last. There are no more trumpets after the 7th in Revelation when Christ returns
Jesus never taught a "pre-trib" rapture. You have to do somersaults with wedding feast myths to surmise that.
Here is a DIRECT and implicit statement Jesus made:

Mt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the earth to the other

This "trumpet" is the Last in 1Cor 15, the 7th in Rev 11 and the "Trump of God" that angels blow in 1Thess 4.

Jesus NEVER taught a pre-trib myth

 

[CrowCross]

There is still a chance for this:
Rv 3:18-19
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

You seem to be upping the ante....a pre-tribber has to now do a Rev 3:18-19 or they're lost???

 

[CrowCross]

1) the last trump is blown every year at the feast of trumpets.
2) thinking there can only be a limited dynamic to "trumps, trumpets and last trump" is a poor foundation when Jesus himself taught a pretrib rapture.
3) when Jesus appeared to John on patmos, his voice was like a trumpet when he spoke.
Was that the last trump, or the trump, or the 7th trumpet?

Used to be pretrib ?
What verses did you omit, and what verses "showed you the light"?

maybe the last trump has a real name...Donald.

 

[shepherdsword]

You seem to be upping the ante....a pre-tribber has to now do a Rev 3:18-19 or they're lost???

Are you saying you don't have to repent?

 

[rebuilder 454]

The last Trumpet means the last. There are no more trumpets after the 7th in Revelation when Christ returns
Jesus never taught a "pre-trib" rapture. You have to do somersaults with wedding feast myths to surmise that.
Here is a DIRECT and implicit statement Jesus made:

Mt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the earth to the other

This "trumpet" is the Last in 1Cor 15, the 7th in Rev 11 and the "Trump of God" that angels blow in 1Thess 4.

Jesus NEVER taught a pre-trib myth

Lol.
CAN YOU ACTUALLY READ????
YOU posted a passage that says; "AFTER THE trib JESUS SENDS ANGELS TO GATHER SAINTS in heaven, not earth".

PSSST..HE is telling us HE DOES NOT GO, but SENDS ANGELS.
ANGELS GATHER IN HEAVEN.
You just made a case for the pretrib rapture.
Jesus doesn't go but sends angels to gather saints IN HEAVEN....hello...AFTER THE TRIB.

I thought you said you once knew all that?
Now who got you to leave the pure word and reread it to fit a tired workbook, that nobody could possibly see as plausable.
You didn't know that in the rapture Jesus gathers, not angels?
And it is from earth, not heaven?

...and pretrib as Jesus taught in mat 24 And Luke 17.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The last Trumpet means the last. There are no more trumpets after the 7th in Revelation when Christ returns
Jesus never taught a "pre-trib" rapture. You have to do somersaults with wedding feast myths to surmise that.
Here is a DIRECT and implicit statement Jesus made:

Mt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the earth to the other

This "trumpet" is the Last in 1Cor 15, the 7th in Rev 11 and the "Trump of God" that angels blow in 1Thess 4.

Jesus NEVER taught a pre-trib myth

I just gave you what, 10 or 15 verses that smash your deal.?
You are sitting in ashes holding up a horn, saying those verses bounced off your horn.

I thought you said you saw the light and yet have no point at all.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The last Trumpet means the last. There are no more trumpets after the 7th in Revelation when Christ returns
Jesus never taught a "pre-trib" rapture. You have to do somersaults with wedding feast myths to surmise that.
Here is a DIRECT and implicit statement Jesus made:

Mt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the earth to the other

This "trumpet" is the Last in 1Cor 15, the 7th in Rev 11 and the "Trump of God" that angels blow in 1Thess 4.

Jesus NEVER taught a pre-trib myth

What did Jesus mean with this passage?
Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

And the other escape verse?
" ... But pray that you may be counted worthy. To escape the things that are about to come up on the earth and stand before the son of man."

No postribber would pray that.

 

[shepherdsword]

Lol.
CAN YOU ACTUALLY READ????
YOU posted a passage that says; "AFTER THE trib JESUS SENDS ANGELS TO GATHER SAINTS in heaven, not earth".

CAN YOU ACTUALLY READ?
THIS is where Jesus gathers saints from.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the earth to the other


Typical rabid foaming at the mouth ranting from a a pre-tribber. Looks like you get triggered when you are presented with the actual scriptures you demanded. Can't help but notice you didn't post any. In any case, my discussion with you has come to an end.

 

[rebuilder 454]

CAN YOU ACTUALLY READ?
THIS is where Jesus gathers saints from.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the earth to the other


Typical rabid foaming at the mouth ranting from a a pre-tribber. Looks like you get triggered when you are presented with the actual scriptures you demanded. Can't help but notice you didn't post any. In any case, my discussion with you has come to an end.

Lol.
What translation are you using.
Mat 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

Jettison your nastiness and ( postriber calling card) and read what it says.

 

[Davidpt]

What did Jesus mean with this passage?
Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. The other verse you brought up, maybe the sealing of the 144K explains it? Obviously, none of those sealed are going to be falling away and worshiping the beast instead. Thus God keeps them from the hour of temptation. But not in the way you think He does. That He has to remove the church from the planet first.

And the other escape verse?
" ... But pray that you may be counted worthy. To escape the things that are about to come up on the earth and stand before the son of man."

No postribber would pray that.

The verse in Luke 21 that you quoted is not meaning great tribulation. It is meaning the DOTL judgment unleashed on the lost during the 2nd coming. Why would Postribbers not be praying that they escape that judgment? As to the other passage, maybe the sealing of the 144K explains it. Obviously, none of them are going to be falling away and worshiping the beast. Therefore, God keeps them from the hour of temptation. But not in the way you visualize, that He has to remove the church from the earth first in order to do so.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Greek interlinear:

G575
Prep
FROM
akrwn
akrOn
G206
n_ Gen Pl n
EXTREMITIES
ouranwn
ouranOn
G3772
n_ Gen Pl m
OF-heavens

You have to check things out.
Your teachers have totally lied to you and changed Gods word.

Appalling

 

[shepherdsword]

Lol.
What translation are you using.
Mat 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

Jettison your nastiness and ( postriber calling card) and read what it says.

I use the KJV but actually, I like your translation better...."from heaven" PROVES this is the rapture AND second coming. It's the catching up.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The verse in Luke 21 that you quoted is not meaning great tribulation. It is meaning the DOTL judgment unleashed on the lost during the 2nd coming. Why would Postribbers not be praying that they escape that judgment?

It is one of 2 escape verses.
Escaping the trib, great trib, or wrath.
Whatever you wish to call the 7 yr trib you guys are determined to participate in.

So no you would never pray that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I use the KJV but actually, I like your translation better...."from heaven" PROVES this is the rapture AND second coming. It's the catching up.

Either you, or your teachers changed it.

You forgot the rapture is from earth, and your mat 24 passage has Angels gathering in heaven, and Jesus staying.?
Huh?
Oh wait....that is why you changed it.

You are wanting us to believe the dead in Christ at the rapture, are raised up from somewhere besides earth ?

Not even remotely possible.

 

[shepherdsword]

Either you, or your teachers changed it.

You forgot the rapture is from earth, and your mat 24 passage has Angels gathering in heaven, and Jesus staying.?
Huh?
Oh wait....that is why you changed it.

You are wanting us to believe the dead in Christ at the rapture, are raised up from somewhere besides earth ?

Not even remotely possible.

From heaven is just a common metaphor for all the earth.

When are the dead in Christ raised?

 

[Davidpt]

I use the KJV but actually, I like your translation better...."from heaven" PROVES this is the rapture AND second coming. It's the catching up.

There is also the Mark 13 account which proves your point anyway.

Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.(KJV)

If that doesn't have everyone covered, the dead in Christ that rise first, and those that are alive and remain, then I give up, Pretribbers win the debate.

 

[Davidpt]

Either you, or your teachers changed it.

You forgot the rapture is from earth, and your mat 24 passage has Angels gathering in heaven, and Jesus staying.?
Huh?
Oh wait....that is why you changed it.

You are wanting us to believe the dead in Christ at the rapture, are raised up from somewhere besides earth ?

Not even remotely possible.

Did they also change the Mark 13 account as well?

Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.(KJV)

 

[shepherdsword]

Either you, or your teachers changed it.

You forgot the rapture is from earth, and your mat 24 passage has Angels gathering in heaven, and Jesus staying.?
Huh?
Oh wait....that is why you changed it.

You are wanting us to believe the dead in Christ at the rapture, are raised up from somewhere besides earth ?

Not even remotely possible.

David's point:

 

[ewq1938]

Do you know about the letter they got from the false prophets?

The letter Paul wrote that I quoted is a valid one and he speaks against the idea that Christ can come at any moment. That alone disproves Pretrib along with other scriptures.