The Case for the Sinless Ever-Virgin Mary.

[Soulx3]

He could have but he didn't. It was appropriate for Mary to be a sinful human in that the whole point in Jesus coming was to interact and teach salvation. Not to glorify his birth mother. God's focus was on Jesus and his mission. Mary was a good and worthy choice of God to bear his son.

In order for Jesus to be born and fulfill His mission, He, God Incarnate, first had to be conceived and dwell in a womb. Now, consider, only the High Priest was allowed into the Holy of Holies to offer sacrifice to God for the sins of humanity. Would Mary not have to be so Holy and Perfect, to the point of being Second only to God, as to conceive God Incarnate, the Son of God, the most Holy and Perfect One, and offer Him to God the Father as sacrifice for the sins of humanity? Therefore, how could God not have preserved Mary's soul from inheriting the stain of original sin?

Peter says, “...like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written: “You shall be holy, for I am holy” (1 Pet. 1:15-16). Jesus, God Incarnate, was holy in all His behavior because He was without sin (1 Pet. 2:22), and thus He was completely Holy. Sin is disobedience, evil, and unholy (1 Jn. 3:4;8) and "no evil can dwell with God" (Ps. 5:4). If Mary was not without sin in all Her behavior, then She was not completely Holy and Perfect. Why would God, the most Holy and Perfect One, allegedly create a soul, and as God Incarnate take form and dwell in a body, that was not the most Holy and Perfect so as to be Second only to Him?

 

[Hepzibah]

The Roman church differed from the original true church by saying Mary was born perfect whereas they said she was like us all but perfected at the Annunciation. Of course she needed to be saved as we all.

 

[marks]

I didn't ask for an explanation as to why God became man. I asked, why did God, the most Holy and Perfect One, allegedly create a soul, take form in, and dwell in as God Incarnate, a body that was not the most Holy and Perfect, so as to be Second only to Him?

And once again, your question is moot - that is, without relevence - because the Bible says "all have sinned", so that includes Mary. Regardless of whether it seems sensible or reasonable to you, or not. God clearly states this in the Bible, all have sinned, so that's just how it is.

Much love!

 

[Soulx3]

And once again, your question is moot - that is, without relevence - because the Bible says "all have sinned", so that includes Mary. Regardless of whether it seems sensible or reasonable to you, or not. God clearly states this in the Bible, all have sinned, so that's just how it is.

Much love!

We read, "all have sinned," except Jesus, so why not Mary as well, the One Who conceived God Incarnate? There's no scriptural verse that forbids the exception applying to Mary as well.

 

[marks]

All except Jesus, God Incarnate and man, so why not Mary as well, the One Whom God Incarnate was conceived, took form, and dwelled in?

Because God says it wasn't that way. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, save for God himself.

Much love!

 

[Soulx3]

Because God says it wasn't that way. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, save for God himself.

Much love!

We read, "all have sinned," yet there are still exceptions, like Jesus, so why not Mary as well, the One Who conceived God Incarnate? There's no scriptural verse that forbids the exception applying to Her as well.

 

[marks]

We read, "all have sinned," yet there are still exceptions, like Jesus, so why not Mary as well, the One Whom God Incarnate was conceived, took form, and dwelled in? There's no scriptural verse that forbids the exception applying to Her as well.

Asked and answered. What can I say? You read it, but don't believe it, and imagine there is an exception, but there isn't.

"All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory." It is evident that God does not fall short of His glory. He is the measure. All others fall short, including Mary. All.

Much love!

 

[Adrift]

Catholics notwithstanding, you should suck it up and accept the truth. Mary was not sinless.

 

[Soulx3]

Asked and answered. What can I say? You read it, but don't believe it, and imagine there is an exception, but there isn't.

"All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory." It is evident that God does not fall short of His glory. He is the measure. All others fall short, including Mary. All.

Much love!

We read, "all have sinned," yet there are still exceptions, like Jesus, and there's no scriptural verse that forbids the exception applying to Mary as well. You also haven't been able to give an explanation for why God, the most Holy and Perfect One, allegedly created a soul, and as God Incarnate took form and dwelled in a body, that was not the most Holy and Perfect so as to be Second only to Him.

 

[Soulx3]

Catholics notwithstanding, you should suck it up and accept the truth. Mary was not sinless.

You should answer my questions in post #21, unless you don't know how?

 

[Adrift]

You should answer my questions in post #21, unless you don't know how?

OK. The answer is NO!

 

[Soulx3]

OK. The answer is NO!

You should re-read the questions in post #21 so as to give coherent answers.

 

[Adrift]

You should re-read the questions in post #21 so as to give coherent answers.

I answered the first question in #21. Pay attention.

 

[Soulx3]

I answered the first question in #21. Pay attention.

If you were paying attention, you'd know post #21 is actually a reply from me, currently unaddressed by you.

 

[Adrift]

If you were paying attention, you'd know post #21 is actually a reply from me, currently unaddressed by you.

So what? You asked me to answer the question in 23. I did.

 

[Soulx3]

So what? You asked me to answer the question in 23. I did.

I asked you to answer the questions in post #21 not #23, and I'm still waiting for your answers that may or may never come.

 

[RedFan]

As is so often the case, the debate here seems to be between logic (a sinless Jesus could not have proceeded from a sinful Mary as his vessel for coming into the world) and Scripture (Paul told the Romans that all have sinned – which is the same as God saying it, so it must be true). I disagree with both of these propositions, but for present purposes let me just suggest a way that both could be true simultaneously: Mary could have been sinless up until giving birth to Jesus, and sinned thereafter.

 

[Soulx3]

...let me just suggest a way that both could be true simultaneously: Mary could have been sinless up until giving birth to Jesus, and sinned thereafter.

God's will for mankind is to reach perfection in holiness (Matt. 5:48). To be without sin requires the cooperation of God and man. To be without sin would mean an immaculate soul, capable of possessing the fullness of God's Grace, and God's Grace in cooperation with one who has a natural good will and desire to not sin will not sin. If you don't include Jesus and Mary, no man has known the fullness of God's Grace except Eve and Adam, up until their fall from Grace through their disobedience. It's within Lucifer that evil originated, and our first parents, including Jesus, the New Adam, were never unable to be tempted to sin until a certain point, so why would that not be the case for Mary, the New Eve?

 

[Jack]

Do Catholics pray to Mary?

 

[Adrift]

Do Catholics pray to Mary?

Yes. Big time.