The Case for the Sinless Ever-Virgin Mary.

[Ronald Nolette]

Again, I have evidence, but it's evidence you reject. Again, Jesus and Mary Herself explicitly explain why God preserved Her from inheriting the stain of original sin, as well as why She didn't commit sins. However, again, their words (spoken in modern day) are found in a book that isn't in one of the books that make up the Bible, and thus you automatically reject it.

Well if it was so important for us to know and if mary was going to become co-mediatrix and all the other titles bestowed on her by Rome, I think God would have put it into His Word.

But as the bible declares we have but one mediator between God and man- Jesus Christ.

The bible is the final arbiter of all other doctrines in all other books. If it doesn"t pass the smell test of Scripture, it is to be rejected no matter what sect, pasot or pope says otherwise.

 

[Augustin56]

Critiquing Protestants by non-Protestants seems to be a highlight of some Catholics…when there are several reasons;
while Protestants Churches have the SAME CORE Belief upon which their Church is established; being; “Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God”….not all Protestant Churches take their marching orders from one world leader, elected by a handful.

Some Protestant Churches, establish;
A dress code, hours of operation, appointed and hired Pastors (that individuals may or may not like their sermon delivery or Gender for Preaching), distance to travel to attend, specific ceremonies, rituals, entertainment, music selections, ease of access for the elderly and impaired, Sunday school for studying particular topics, on and on and on….that some may agree or disagree with.

Seems to me a greater opportunity for individuals to be at ease with the ‘rules’ of particular Protestant denominations that encompasses participation aside from the SAME CORE BELIEFS and praise and worship unto the Lord God.

I know of many Catholics, who have generationally held allegiance by vow to the Catholic Church, yet don’t attend Church regularly, don’t agree with all of their beliefs, is critical of their own ‘high leader”, the pope, have had very undesirable relationships with their Priests, don’t read the Bible…yet feel obligated as a duty to their family to keep their declaration of being Catholic, or be ostracized.

Everyone is an individual. Christ’s Church belongs to Christ…not the Catholics, not the Protestants.
God called HIS House, a House of Prayer…If individuals are content gathering with others, by whatever name is stamped on the marquee, and worships and praises the Lord God, I believe Christ the Lord God KNOWS their heart and accounts them among His own.



Not in debate.



Sure….with the CAVEAT, “that the Church” IS keeping IN-LINE with Gods Word, to whit it IS an Individuals own obligation to VERIFY their preaching and teaching BE SO, according to the Lord God.



An IRRELEVANT challenge on your part.
NEVER have I said or implied or indicated private Interpretation is an APPROVED method according to Gods Order and Way, or should be considered or effected.



The WHOLE dynamics of the NEW TESTAMENT is not mysterious…Point Blank, Beyond all hullabaloo of rituals and individual Church rules….it is the ALL about doing the Works OF God, which IS to HEARTFULLY BELIEVE ‘and’ CONFESS that BELIEF…which of and in itself IS highest Glory a man can do to pay tribute unto the Lord God.

Every individual knows their own TRUE heartful belief and SO ALSO Does God.
I highly doubt God is concerned with what denomination a man calls himself, but rather, What is IN his Hearts True Beliefs.


Glory to God,
Taken




WHY?

Referring to "Core Belief" implies that error is okay in the rest? And where in Scripture does it outline what "Core Beliefs" are vs. beliefs that are up for grabs? I must've missed that, yes?

 

[Taken]

Referring to "Core Belief" implies that error is okay in the rest? And where in Scripture does it outline what "Core Beliefs" are vs. beliefs that are up for grabs? I must've missed that, yes?

Core belief does not imply an error.

Core belief EXACTS a precise AGREEMENT between and among men of a Particular EXACT BELIEF OF God Regarding…EXPRESSLY JESUS, (the One whom God Sent)

Do human men require FOOD to sustain the life of their Body?
Yes.

Did Adam LABOR, so that he may have FOOD to satisfy his HUNGER?
No.

Did Adam FREELY TAKE FOOD that God INSTRUCTED him of a Particular tree, its FOOD was NOT for him to EAT, to NOT TAKE, NOT EAT?
Yes.

Did Adam receive a CURSE SENTENCING for his DISOBEDIENCE of Taking and Eating that which was NOT for him?
Yes.

Was Adam’s CURSE SENTENCE, he WOULD have to LABOR for his FOOD?
Yes.

Is LABOR a term of effort VIA WORKING?
Yes.

** Has from Adam’s day to this day, ANY of those things changed?
No.

* Did JESUS introduce men to a DIFFERENT KIND of LABOR, and a DIFFERENT KIND of reward, “other than Plant or Animal FOOD”?
Yes.

WHAT…effort, labor, work did Jesus introduce men to?
Works “OF” God.

WHAT…reward, would a man Receive for Doing such WORKS?
In a single word, that encompasses multiple facets….Sanctification FROM God.

WHAT IS the Works “OF” God?
A WORK God DOES, and OFFERS and DESIRES ALSO that a man WILL Freely Choose to DO.

Men “wondered”.
Men “asked Jesus”.

John 6:
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus “answered” the men.

John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Romans 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Why?
Because Jesus Himself taught on the essence of … unashamedly Confessing Belief
In Jesus.

Heb 10:
[32] Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.


Everyone has the FREEWILL to accept or reject the Lord Gods OFFERING, according to His ORDER and WAY…

Believe, as does God…Confess, as in “IF”…from your heart’s thoughts….
“THEN”…receive Gods Offering of Salvation.

BECAUSE….(ie FOR) one HAS accomplishe-ED the WORKS of God according TO:
Gods Order and Way, Fully satisfactory to God.

** Once Jesus introduced men OF and TO Gods OFFERING, Has that changed from that day to this?
No.

Nothing different than what I posted.
Nothing mysterious. Nothing confusing.
Plain concise Knowledge revealed in Scripture.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Augustin56]

"CORE BELIEFS" imply that only some things that Jesus taught are necessary to believe, not all. Those things from Scripture you disagree on are okay to be in error. (The logic here is that if you disagree on what Scripture means, only one, at most, can be correct. Like a class of 100 2nd graders given a math problem 2 + 2 = _____ and you get 100 different answers. How many, at mosts, can be correct? 1)

All Scripture is inerrant, not just some. Christ came to bring us the fullness of His truth, not just some. And, He founded a Church to spread His teachings. The Apostles, their successors, the bishops, etc. It was the Church that wrote and propagated the New Testament, and who is the authoritative interpreter of Scripture through the power of the Holy Spirit. Not each individual trying to reinvent Christ's teaching through his own world view as he reads the Scripture. That's why you have as many interpretations as you have people trying to personally interpret it.

For example, the Baptists say that infant Baptism is invalid. Lutherans and Episcopaleans say it is valid. All read the same Bible and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit, yet come up with contradictory doctrines. Only one, at most, can be correct.

It comes down to authority. Authority is given, not taken. Christ gave His authority to His Church to teach, govern, and sanctify.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"CORE BELIEFS" imply that only some things that Jesus taught are necessary to believe, not all. Those things from Scripture you disagree on are okay to be in error. (The logic here is that if you disagree on what Scripture means, only one, at most, can be correct. Like a class of 100 2nd graders given a math problem 2 + 2 = _____ and you get 100 different answers. How many, at mosts, can be correct? 1)

All Scripture is inerrant, not just some. Christ came to bring us the fullness of His truth, not just some. And, He founded a Church to spread His teachings. The Apostles, their successors, the bishops, etc. It was the Church that wrote and propagated the New Testament, and who is the authoritative interpreter of Scripture through the power of the Holy Spirit. Not each individual trying to reinvent Christ's teaching through his own world view as he reads the Scripture. That's why you have as many interpretations as you have people trying to personally interpret it.

For example, the Baptists say that infant Baptism is invalid. Lutherans and Episcopaleans say it is valid. All read the same Bible and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit, yet come up with contradictory doctrines. Only one, at most, can be correct.

It comes down to authority. Authority is given, not taken. Christ gave His authority to His Church to teach, govern, and sanctify.

if this is true, there is no true church.

because no one has perfect doctrine..

each man will give an account.

They will be held accountable to what THEY BELIEVE

No church, or pope or pastor or anyone can stand up for the person if they got it wrong. they wi;ll be held accountable for their own belief.

 

[Augustin56]

if this is true, there is no true church.

because no one has perfect doctrine..

each man will give an account.

They will be held accountable to what THEY BELIEVE

No church, or pope or pastor or anyone can stand up for the person if they got it wrong. they wi;ll be held accountable for their own belief.

There is one Church that has the fullness, unchanged teachings of Jesus Christ. That is the original one, the Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ. Jesus promised, “I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). This means that His Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from Him. His Church will survive until His return.

Each person will, indeed, be held accountable, not just for what they believe, but what they should believe, according to their ability. If someone is invincibly ignorant (don't know, through no fault of their own), then they will not be held to the same standard as someone who willingly chose not to know or who rejected Christ's message.

When Saul (Paul by his Hebrew name) was going around persecuting the first Christians, Jesus knocked him off his horse and asked him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” Note that Jesus didn't say, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting My Church?" which he was, but "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting ME?" To persecute Christ's Church is to persecute Christ because He identifies as one with His Church.

Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church.

His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is one Church that has the fullness, unchanged teachings of Jesus Christ.

Thats odd. They do not even believe today many of the things they believed 100 years ago.

That is the original one, the Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ. Jesus promised, “I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). This means that His Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from Him. His Church will survive until His return.

You read this wrong. Jesus said his church will go into the gates of hell. and the gate of hell will nto stop it.

Each person will, indeed, be held accountable, not just for what they believe, but what they should believe, according to their ability.

Ability?

Sorry bud.. You will be held accountable..

If someone is invincibly ignorant (don't know, through no fault of their own), then they will not be held to the same standard as someone who willingly chose not to know or who rejected Christ's message.

They will both end up in hell.. so sorry, but you are in error

When Saul (Paul by his Hebrew name) was going around persecuting the first Christians, Jesus knocked him off his horse and asked him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” Note that Jesus didn't say, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting My Church?" which he was, but "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting ME?" To persecute Christ's Church is to persecute Christ because He identifies as one with His Church.

That's because Christ is the head. Not the pope..

Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church.

His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).

He established the body of christ.

He did not establish a paganized gentile church that is no better than the paganized jewish church that preceded it.

Once again, You will be held accountable for what you believe, not what you are told..

 

[Soulx3]

Well if it was so important for us to know and if mary was going to become co-mediatrix and all the other titles bestowed on her by Rome, I think God would have put it into His Word.

He did, but you reject His words, without knowing they are His words.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He did, but you reject His words, without knowing they are His words.

where?

 

[Augustin56]

Thats odd. They do not even believe today many of the things they believed 100 years ago.


You read this wrong. Jesus said his church will go into the gates of hell. and the gate of hell will nto stop it.



Ability?

Sorry bud.. You will be held accountable..

They will both end up in hell.. so sorry, but you are in error

That's because Christ is the head. Not the pope..



He established the body of christ.

He did not establish a paganized gentile church that is no better than the paganized jewish church that preceded it.

Once again, You will be held accountable for what you believe, not what you are told..

It doesnt sound to me like you have any idea what the Catholic Church teaches or doesn't.

God is infinitely just. It would be unjust to old someone to a standard they were not capable of meeting. For example, infants, children before the age of reason, the mentally retarded, someone who has never heard of Christ, etc.

Christ is, indeed, the head of the Catholic Church. The Pope is His visible head, his vicar. In Matt. 16:19, Jesus established the office that we call Pope. Every first century Jew understood that the King always had a 2nd in command (see Isaiah 22;22 for an exxample) who ruled the kingdom with the king's authority when the king wasn't available (off to war, visiting another kingdom, sick, etc.). The symbol of this second-in-command was a large key or two (2-3 ft. long) that he carried over his shoulder. Whatever this second-in-command ruled was upheld by the king upon his return. We claim Jesus to be our King (we call Him "Lord"!). When Jesus gave Peter, the first Pope, the "keys to the kingdom" He was clearly establishing such an office. This office was dynastic, i.e., if the man assigned to the office died, another was appointed to take his place. We have a lne of Popes from the Apostle Peter to todays Francis.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

We read, "all have sinned," except Jesus, so why not Mary as well, the One Who conceived God Incarnate? There's no scriptural verse that forbids the exception applying to Mary as well.

In order for the Christ to be born and fulfill His mission, He, God Incarnate, first had to be conceived and dwell in a womb. Why would God, the most Holy and Perfect One, allegedly create a soul, and as God Incarnate take form and dwell in a body, that was not the most Holy and Perfect so as to be Second only to Him? Do you believe that God can or cannot preserve a soul from inheriting the stain of original sin?

We were all born in sin and have sinned since then. God chose Mary, not based on her purity. He chose Enoch, Elijah and all the prophets and the Holy Spirit would come upon them, enter into their minds durwct their will, guide and equip them for service.
We are temples of the Holy Spirit, yet we are sinners. What the Holy Spirit did was instead of a sperm coming from a human, he created a pure one and it entered into Mary's egg. That's the physical miracle of conception. The formation of any baby in the fetus from conception on is miraculous in itself - He just replaced the initial step. Okay so far? Then God emptied Himself into that fetus. That was the spiritual part.
Now Mary had her own spirit, separate from God as each of us do now, having God dwell in us - yet we sin.
As far as being "holy" and God's command to be holy it means to be separate from sin. Holy means separate - special, it is why we celebrate Holi -days, where that word came from. The command to "Be perfect as your Father is perfect" is for us a goal to achieve during moments when God is working through us and we will someday be completely perfected when we die and are separated from the flesh and/or are resurrected, whichever comes first. Our redemption has not been fulfilled yet. So we run the race towards the finish line, are compelled, encouraged and motivated to act and live perfectly, holy, but only experience moments when the Holy Spirit is actually doing the work in us. During those moments we experience perfection. When someone is in need, the Holy Spirit fills us, equips us and provides for that person sufficiently what they need, that's perfect. But these moments for me are few ... and certainly not a constant flow of perfection.
The Apostles, saints in history, clergy, missionaries, etc., experienced more activity and filling of the Holy Spirit for His purpose. Mary was given a task, to carry a baby and care for Him as he grew. She wasn't perfect but was certainly guided by the Holy Spirit with everything she did. She was considered "blessed" - which means happy. The Bible does not tell us to worship anyone other than our Lord Jesus. We pray directly to the Father or Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Other living Christians can intercede in prayer for us or for a cause but we are not instructed to ask dead souls to intercede for us or do anything for us.
God gets all the credit and we don't, nor does Mary. She accomplished her task and then it was finished once Jesus began His ministry.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It doesnt sound to me like you have any idea what the Catholic Church teaches or doesn't.

Oh I know what they teach my friend.

God is infinitely just. It would be unjust to old someone to a standard they were not capable of meeting. For example, infants, children before the age of reason, the mentally retarded, someone who has never heard of Christ, etc.

I will leave that in Gods hands.

for the rest of us, We are held accountable for what we believe

Christ is, indeed, the head of the Catholic Church.

If he was. Then the catholic church would hold to christian values, not pagan values.

The Pope is His visible head, his vicar. In Matt. 16:19, Jesus established the office that we call Pope. Every first century Jew understood that the King always had a 2nd in command (see Isaiah 22;22 for an exxample) who ruled the kingdom with the king's authority when the king wasn't available (off to war, visiting another kingdom, sick, etc.). The symbol of this second-in-command was a large key or two (2-3 ft. long) that he carried over his shoulder. Whatever this second-in-command ruled was upheld by the king upon his return. We claim Jesus to be our King (we call Him "Lord"!). When Jesus gave Peter, the first Pope, the "keys to the kingdom" He was clearly establishing such an office. This office was dynastic, i.e., if the man assigned to the office died, another was appointed to take his place. We have a lne of Popes from the Apostle Peter to todays Francis.

Christ is the head of the church, Not the pope.

Christ always sent people out in two. JHe never sent anyone out on their own.

Peter John and james were the head of church in Jerusalem. Paul and his companions went out to the gentiles.

 

[Taken]

"CORE BELIEFS" imply that only some things that Jesus taught are necessary to believe, not all. Those things from Scripture you disagree on are okay to be in error. (The logic here is that if you disagree on what Scripture means, only one, at most, can be correct. Like a class of 100 2nd graders given a math problem 2 + 2 = _____ and you get 100 different answers. How many, at mosts, can be correct? 1)

All Scripture is inerrant, not just some. Christ came to bring us the fullness of His truth, not just some. And, He founded a Church to spread His teachings. The Apostles, their successors, the bishops, etc. It was the Church that wrote and propagated the New Testament, and who is the authoritative interpreter of Scripture through the power of the Holy Spirit. Not each individual trying to reinvent Christ's teaching through his own world view as he reads the Scripture. That's why you have as many interpretations as you have people trying to personally interpret it.

For example, the Baptists say that infant Baptism is invalid. Lutherans and Episcopaleans say it is valid. All read the same Bible and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit, yet come up with contradictory doctrines. Only one, at most, can be correct.

It comes down to authority. Authority is given, not taken. Christ gave His authority to His Church to teach, govern, and sanctify.

I believe I expressly Gave a proper response.

I am not accountable to UNDERSTAND Gods Word “according to” other mens UNDERSTANDING, that which is not Gods own UNDERSTANDING.

Fact is Christ’s Church IS “HIS” Church.

Fact is: Christ DID NOT “establish HIS CHURCH” with any other identifier, OTHER THAN Jesus Christ expressly saying;
“MY CHURCH”.

Fact is: Jesus Christ Offered men an Order and Way, By, Through, Of, Christ Jesus for men to BECOME MADE MEMBERS OF HIS CHURCH.

Fact is; Members “OF” Christ Jesus’ Church ARE AUTHORIZED TO SPEAK Gods Word to any other person, on Behalf of the Lord God, which IS Glory unto God.

And ANY PERSON, so Hearing another Has the AUTHORITY…to Verify an other’s words (with Scripture) or Not, Believe it or Reject it.

Fact is: Christ Jesus DID NOT STOP being the anointed High Priest of God, OR Teacher OF God, because men anoint men, because men appoint men authority within Churches men establish.

And Personally, Christ Jesus IS my high Priest and my Teacher and my FULL Trust is in Him, not human men appointed by human men.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Pearl]

if this is true, there is no true church.

because no one has perfect doctrine..

each man will give an account.

They will be held accountable to what THEY BELIEVE

No church, or pope or pastor or anyone can stand up for the person if they got it wrong. they wi;ll be held accountable for their own belief.

Very true @Eternally Grateful - There is not one single religion, tradition or denomination that has the right to call itself the One True Church.

There is and only ever has been One True Church, and that is made up only of those who have freely chosen Jesus and become Born Again believers; from whatever church background, or none, worldwide, past present and future. Those who through the revelation of the Holy Spirit have seen Jesus for who he is, recognised what he did, turned from their sin and accepted him into their lives as Lord and Saviour. It is this Church which is called a Royal Priesthood and will be presented to the Father as the Bride.

Anybody who hasn’t taken these steps towards him and made that commitment is not part of the Church. And in my experience many church-goers and even high ranking priests and clergy fall outside this criteria.

Within the denominations there are many ‘weeds’ and where they are in the majority, I believe God’s word tells us not to be yoked with unbelievers. I know there is an argument which says stay and lead by example, but I have found that such died-in-the-wool ‘weeds’ have absolutely no desire to change and most will be quite derogatory about those in their midst who confess to be Born Again and spirit filled.

Many clergy are afraid to preach the truth in case they offend life-long church members who then may leave, causing dwindling membership to drop even further – I’ve seen it happen. These stiff-necked people are often the driving force of the church (small c) as they refuse to step down from positions of authority on PCC committees and the like, which can result in the stultifying of the church.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Very true @Eternally Grateful - There is not one single religion, tradition or denomination that has the right to call itself the One True Church.

There is and only ever has been One True Church, and that is made up only of those who have freely chosen Jesus and become Born Again believers; from whatever church background, or none, worldwide, past present and future. Those who through the revelation of the Holy Spirit have seen Jesus for who he is, recognised what he did, turned from their sin and accepted him into their lives as Lord and Saviour. It is this Church which is called a Royal Priesthood and will be presented to the Father as the Bride.

Anybody who hasn’t taken these steps towards him and made that commitment is not part of the Church. And in my experience many church-goers and even high ranking priests and clergy fall outside this criteria.

Within the denominations there are many ‘weeds’ and where they are in the majority, I believe God’s word tells us not to be yoked with unbelievers. I know there is an argument which says stay and lead by example, but I have found that such died-in-the-wool ‘weeds’ have absolutely no desire to change and most will be quite derogatory about those in their midst who confess to be Born Again and spirit filled.

Many clergy are afraid to preach the truth in case they offend life-long church members who then may leave, causing dwindling membership to drop even further – I’ve seen it happen. These stiff-necked people are often the driving force of the church (small c) as they refuse to step down from positions of authority on PCC committees and the like, which can result in the stultifying of the church.

Amen

But as many as have received him..

this is the true church..

 

[Pearl]

Amen

But as many as have received him..

this is the true church..

Yes, absolutely - this is the only Church which is the body of Christ.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

He did, but you reject His words, without knowing they are His words.

Well as you have kept this part of the bible secret from us, you cannot know we would reject that part of Scripture.

Quit dodging and show us in the bible where God declared Mary sinless for Her whole life. that is all that is being asked of you. Why you keep snaking around simply answering this when you say it is in His inspired Word is beyond me.

 

[Augustin56]

I believe I expressly Gave a proper response.

I am not accountable to UNDERSTAND Gods Word “according to” other mens UNDERSTANDING, that which is not Gods own UNDERSTANDING.

Fact is Christ’s Church IS “HIS” Church.

Fact is: Christ DID NOT “establish HIS CHURCH” with any other identifier, OTHER THAN Jesus Christ expressly saying;
“MY CHURCH”.

Fact is: Jesus Christ Offered men an Order and Way, By, Through, Of, Christ Jesus for men to BECOME MADE MEMBERS OF HIS CHURCH.

Fact is; Members “OF” Christ Jesus’ Church ARE AUTHORIZED TO SPEAK Gods Word to any other person, on Behalf of the Lord God, which IS Glory unto God.

And ANY PERSON, so Hearing another Has the AUTHORITY…to Verify an other’s words (with Scripture) or Not, Believe it or Reject it.

Fact is: Christ Jesus DID NOT STOP being the anointed High Priest of God, OR Teacher OF God, because men anoint men, because men appoint men authority within Churches men establish.

And Personally, Christ Jesus IS my high Priest and my Teacher and my FULL Trust is in Him, not human men appointed by human men.

Glory to God,
Taken

When little babies are born, sometimes they aren't given a name for a day or so. That little baby is still the same person, regardless of the name given him or her, right?

Simiarly, Christ founded one Church only. This Church, from very early on, was named the Catholic Church. Reference St. Ignatius of Antioch, who was ordained by St. Peter the Apostle, and assigned as bishop of Antioch. He wrote a letter to the Smyrnaean's sometime between 107 and 110 A.D. (he had been captured by the Romans and was being transported to be martyred for the faith). In this letter, he referred to the "Catholic Church" not as if he were coininig the term, but in such a manner in which he fully expected the Smyrnaeans to understand what he meant.

It says in paragraph 8, "Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." You can see the entire letter here: https://www.orderofstignatius.org/files/Letters/Ignatius_to_Smyrnaeans.pdf

This is historical evidence of what I am referring to. Show me anywhere in history, before the 16th century, where there is a Lutheran church, or an Anglican church, or a Baptist church, etc. They didn't exist. They were all founded by mere men, long after Christ founded the Catholic Church.

I would encourage you to read the Early Church Fathers, the first Christians, and you will see that their beliefs and practices were decidedly Catholic. If you want to call them pagans, that's between you and God.

 

[Pearl]

Well as you have kept this part of the bible secret from us, you cannot know we would reject that part of Scripture.

Quit dodging and show us in the bible where God declared Mary sinless for Her whole life. that is all that is being asked of you. Why you keep snaking around simply answering this when you say it is in His inspired Word is beyond me.

More likely in the 'inspired word' of some long ago Catholic 'father'.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

More likely in the 'inspired word' of some long ago Catholic 'father'.

Well I just wish him to be honest and have integrity and show the quotes he says he has.