The Catholic Church gets put down a lot, but it was all that could help

[Phoneman777]

Jesus is for everyone, is he not? Isn't he even for the un-educated people? Doesn't he want them saved also?

then why would he make it a requirement that people know greek and Aramaic (etc) and know all about the rituals of the Old t and etc...? how the Old T should be listened to in some ways, disregarded in others. all these intellectual questions and issues. Well, since Jesus wanted ALL to be in his Church, wanted all to be saved, he gave us His awesome PRESENCe, which is available to all (in the Catholic Churches 24/7). You don't even have to know how to read (Bible or anything) to be in HIS Church.

that is awesome to me.

I am not going to keep on learning and learning, only to get bogged down in facts and information about Jesus. I know his Presence. And i know that it is not to be found, to speak of, in the world at large, which is run by the devil..

that is not to take away from the greatness of the written Word, but as you know, God is bigger than the written Word. The Bible is finite. Jesus is not.

"always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (that's in the bible)

Who said you had to know Greek and Hebrew in order to obtain salvation? That is not the issue here. The issue here is false teachers which make of none effect the Word of God by Catholic tradition. Here is the best statement ever written which reveals Roman Catholicism for what it is:

"A prayerful study of the Bible would show Protestants the real character of the papacy, and would cause them to abhor and to shun it; but many are so wise in their own conceit that they feel no need of humbly seeking God that they may be led into the truth. Although priding themselves on their enlightenment, they are ignorant both of the Scriptures and of the power of God. They must have some means of quieting their consciences; and they seek that which is least spiritual and humiliating. What they desire is a method of forgetting God which shall pass as a method of remembering him. The papacy is well adapted to meet the wants of all these. It is prepared for two classes of mankind, embracing nearly the whole world,—those who would be saved by their merits, and those who would be saved in their sins. Here is the secret of its power." The Great Controversy, pp. 572

 

[tom55]

As I just said, I've already done so and if you're serious about praying it for me then please do so, as I can use all the prayer I can get.

From the best of my memory your evidence that transubstantiation is not possible is because it isn't supported by scripture AND you use this passage, "The FLESH profiteth nothing; the WORDS I speak to you, they are spirit and they are life" as evidence against it.

You suggest I have been inoculated by the RCC. However, as you can see in post #234 the only thing I have done is quote scripture, ECF writings and historical documents that did not come from the RCC. So explain to me how I have been inoculated by the RCC?

It appears that you are saying that the RCC agrees with scripture the ECF and they practice what the early Christians practiced? In my opinion the Catholics should wear that as a badge of honor. Your non belief/theory about transubstantiation has been practiced for roughly 500 years. Transubstantiation has been believed for 2000 years.

In post #234 I gave you 200 words from the bible, backed it up with the written words of men who walked with the Apostles which was backed up by what the early Christians practiced that all support the transubstantiation belief. In a debate in front of undecided Christian's if we were to present the evidence for our beliefs you would easily loose to me.

I am praying for you. That you will remove your blinders and see the truth so you will be saved.

Love......Tom55

 

[StanJ]

no one has a handle on Truth (God's truth, objective truth) who does not have the Church. I, for one, do not listen to you (the anticathlics).

My sheep hear My voice and follow

they will not follow.. a false shepherd

-

If we have Jesus as our savior then we have the truth because he is the truth. If we know his word then we have the truth because his word is the truth. If you have the RCC Church you have a bunch of man-made Traditions that are based on man-made Traditions that are based on man-made traditions but come nowhere close to being based on truth. So you may know your shepherd's voice but your shepherd's voice is not the voice of Jesus Our Shepherd. If you follow only your Shepherd then that means that you don't hear the true Shepherd's voice and I'm not part of his flock. Fortunately not all Roman Catholics feel the same way you do.

 

[ScaliaFan]

Who said you had to know Greek and Hebrew in order to obtain salvation? That is not the issue here. The issue here is false teachers which make of none effect the Word of God by Catholic tradition. Here is the best statement ever written which reveals Roman Catholicism for what it is:

"A prayerful study of the Bible would show Protestants the real character of the papacy, and would cause them to abhor and to shun it; but many are so wise in their own conceit

you know, i am just not in the mood.

you expect me to listen to you but you dont listen to me (catholics). How many times do i have to say that it was the Catholic Church that gave me Jesus and NO other church could or did?

but you dismiss all catholics say just b/c of what u have been taught by the anticatholics. Whether u want 2 believe it or not, the RCC is the Church Christ founded. Just b/c the people in it are not perfect (and those in the protestant churches are, of course) does not take away ONE scintilla from that fact.

you act like catholics don't know a thing. Well, i have done a lot of study, and even more importantly, i have spent time with Jesus. You have not. His tangible presence is NOT anywhere but in the Catholic Churches. All you have is an intellectual concept of Jesus, and once in awhile while reading the Bible you probably feel His presence, but it is nothing like the Presence in His Church... i ought to know. I have been in that Presence many many times. You apparently never have

 

[ScaliaFan]

If we have Jesus as our savior then we have the truth because he is the truth. If we know his word then we have the truth because his word is the truth. If you have the RCC Church you have a bunch of man-made Traditions that are based on man-made Traditions

how utterly ironic! You are going to tell me that some "church" founded by a mere human being, Luther, and founded 1500 years AFTER the Original One..and now fragmented into 60,000 different denominations that all teach different beliefs/practices... is better than the Church founded by Jesus Christ himself 2000 yrs ago???

wow..

 

[Phoneman777]

you know, i am just not in the mood.

you expect me to listen to you but you dont listen to me (catholics). How many times do i have to say that it was the Catholic Church that gave me Jesus and NO other church could or did?

but you dismiss all catholics say just b/c of what u have been taught by the anticatholics. Whether u want 2 believe it or not, the RCC is the Church Christ founded. Just b/c the people in it are not perfect (and those in the protestant churches are, of course) does not take away ONE scintilla from that fact.

you act like catholics don't know a thing. Well, i have done a lot of study, and even more importantly, i have spent time with Jesus. You have not. His tangible presence is NOT anywhere but in the Catholic Churches. All you have is an intellectual concept of Jesus, and once in awhile while reading the Bible you probably feel His presence, but it is nothing like the Presence in His Church... i ought to know. I have been in that Presence many many times. You apparently never have

I have no doubt that you found Jesus in Catholicism. Millions have. But, God says in Revelation 14 "Come out of her (Babylon) MY people, that you partake not of her sins and recieve not of her plagues."

 

[StanJ]

how utterly ironic! You are going to tell me that some "church" founded by a mere human being, Luther, and founded 1500 years AFTER the Original One..and now fragmented into 60,000 different denominations that all teach different beliefs/practices... is better than the Church founded by Jesus Christ himself 2000 yrs ago???
wow..

What I do find ironic is how often people of your ilk continue to state the same line when they've been shown hundreds if not thousands of times that it's just not true. Claiming something doesn't make it true and historically it isn't true. The True Church of Christ exist within all the denominations of Christianity. What will be made known by Jesus himself is that not all the members of those denominations will be showing to be true Christians but will be labeled as goats and separated from the Sheep. Sadly it appears many of those in the RCC will be among the goats.

 

[ScaliaFan]

What I do find ironic is how often people of your ilk continue to state the same line when they've been shown hundreds if not thousands of times that it's just not true. Claiming something doesn't make it true and historically it isn't true. The True Church of Christ exist within all the denominations of Christianity. What will be made known by Jesus himself is that not all the members of those denominations will be showing to be true Christians but will be labeled as goats and separated from the Sheep. Sadly it appears many of those in the RCC will be among the goats.

how utterly ironic



:blink:

 

[ScaliaFan]

I have no doubt that you found Jesus in Catholicism. Millions have. But, God says in Revelation 14 "Come out of her (Babylon) MY people, that you partake not of her sins and recieve not of her plagues."

I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I have already learned to throw out the bathwater, but you will never get me to throw out precious "babies"

sorry about that

u can keep trying but you will be wasting your time.. I hav a LONG history in the Church. I know far more what is right/wrong therein than you probably EVER will



not being [fill in the blanks].. just sayin...



B)

 

[StanJ]

how utterly ironic

I totally agree.

 

[Phoneman777]

I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I have already learned to throw out the bathwater, but you will never get me to throw out precious "babies"

sorry about that

u can keep trying but you will be wasting your time.. I hav a LONG history in the Church. I know far more what is right/wrong therein than you probably EVER will



not being [fill in the blanks].. just sayin...



B)

Friend, Your organization authored this:

“All the names which are attributed to Christ In Scripture, implying His supremacy over the church, are also attributed to the Pope.”---Bellamin, "On the Authority of Councils," book 2, Chapter 17.

Since "Jesus" means "Savior", how can you not see that it is the height of blasphemy for a mere man who is in desperate need of Christ's salvation to take to himself the title "Savior" which clearly belongs to the Son of God alone?

 

[ScaliaFan]

Friend, Your organization authored this:

“All the names which are attributed to Christ In Scripture, implying His supremacy over the church, are also attributed to the Pope.”---Bellamin, "On the Authority of Councils," book 2, Chapter 17.

Since "Jesus" means "Savior", how can you not see that it is the height of blasphemy for a mere man who is in desperate need of Christ's salvation to take to himself the title "Savior" which clearly belongs to the Son of God alone?

you are implying that Jesus and His Church are not one.

this is a peculiarly protestant thing, which is totally u/standable since you are 500 years removed from the original Church

 

[OzSpen]

you are implying that Jesus and His Church are not one.

this is a peculiarly protestant thing, which is totally u/standable since you are 500 years removed from the original Church

What is the original church? When was it established?

 

[Phoneman777]

you are implying that Jesus and His Church are not one.

this is a peculiarly protestant thing, which is totally u/standable since you are 500 years removed from the original Church

Not implying anything. Your beloved system makes this claim in blatant full frontalism. I cannot accept that. No sinful man or otherwise can take to himself the names, titles, or attributes of God. Catholicism is an apostate system of Babylonian sun worship and the enemy of Christ's true body of believers. It is a system which passes as a means of remembering God for people who wish to forget God, plain and simple. Do you get it, or are you blind?

"There is ONE mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV

Not the pope, cardinals, bishops, priests, Mary, the "saints", or any other person on the topside of the Earth is your mediator, friend. That's why when God brought His true church out of the wilderness during the God-ordained Protestant Reformation, men arose with the triumphant words, "SOLO CHRISTOS, SOLO GRACIA, SOLO SCRIPTURA!!!"

 

[StanJ]

you are implying that Jesus and His Church are not one.
this is a peculiarly protestant thing, which is totally u/standable since you are 500 years removed from the original Church

Jesus and his church have always been one, the problem is you don't seem to understand who is the actual head of His church and who His church actually is.

Col 1:17-18 and Eph 2:22-25

 

[tom55]

Not implying anything. Your beloved system makes this claim in blatant full frontalism. I cannot accept that. No sinful man or otherwise can take to himself the names, titles, or attributes of God. Catholicism is an apostate system of Babylonian sun worship and the enemy of Christ's true body of believers. It is a system which passes as a means of remembering God for people who wish to forget God, plain and simple. Do you get it, or are you blind?

"There is ONE mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV

Not the pope, cardinals, bishops, priests, Mary, the "saints", or any other person on the topside of the Earth is your mediator, friend. That's why when God brought His true church out of the wilderness during the God-ordained Protestant Reformation, men arose with the triumphant words, "SOLO CHRISTOS, SOLO GRACIA, SOLO SCRIPTURA!!!"

So we don't mediate for each other when we pray for each other?

Didn't man mediate at the Council of Jerusalem?

In Timothy it is written 'I urge that *supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men...' This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,. Is this not being a mediator AND it is good to do?

Are not the Pope, bishops, cardinals and priest men?

Maybe your definition of mediator is different then everyone else's!!

*supplication defined: the action of asking or begging for something earnestly or humbly

 

[ScaliaFan]

What is the original church? When was it established?

the first church God established was w/ the Jews. Then Jesus fulfilled the Jewish law and prophecies and there was the Catholic Church first headed by St Peter

then the arch heretic aka human Luther broke w/ the Church b/c he wasn't cut out to be a priestbut would listen to anyone, then entered religious life anyway only to find he wasn't cut out for it and instead of just getting out, he divided Christ's Church

 

[ScaliaFan]

Jesus and his church have always been one, the problem is you don't seem to understand who is the actual head of His church and who His church actually is.

Col 1:17-18 and Eph 2:22-25

well, if i am such a dimwit, maybe you should try to convert someone else to your fake church. Any church not in union with Christ's ONE Church is very... uh... fake

 

[Phoneman777]

So we don't mediate for each other when we pray for each other?

Didn't man mediate at the Council of Jerusalem?

In Timothy it is written 'I urge that *supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men...' This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,. Is this not being a mediator AND it is good to do?

Are not the Pope, bishops, cardinals and priest men?

Maybe your definition of mediator is different then everyone else's!!

*supplication defined: the action of asking or begging for something earnestly or humbly

I'm glad you agree that it is not necessary to obtain the mediation of the pope or his subordinates, and that we can approach the throne of God ourselves in order to obtain grace.

 

[ScaliaFan]

I'm glad you agree that it is not necessary to obtain the mediation of the pope or his subordinates, and that we can approach the throne of God ourselves in order to obtain grace.

i need the Holy Mass to communicate w/ God. And of course, God being no respecter of persons, that applies to everyone else also. wheter they admit it or not, and of course the anticatholics won't.. which is not to say i dont feel close to him elsewhere It's just that elswehre there are many demons (in humans) separating you from Him... and so you are not "alone" with Him, meaning u r not alone minus the demons that surround us at all times...

i found Jesus through the rosary. Then i found Him also in the Holy Mass, where (the saints tell us) all of Heaven participates

you do not know Jesus if you do not know the Eucharist

and that is just an objective fact whether you like it or not (but of course u would like it if you only knew...)