The challenge in Christianity is not to love Jesus, it's to love Judas.

[St. SteVen]

well paul said anyone who taught another gospel should be anathema (cursed, damnedP so I think he made it clear. There is only one way to heaven, not many ways as many want to believe

Another gospel?
What does that mean? Tribalism?
Anyone outside your church?
Where do you draw the line?

It's easy to identify a religious cult.
They are in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you.
Where does that get us?

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Another gospel?
What does that mean? Tribalism?
Anyone outside your church?
Where do you draw the line?

It's easy to identify a religious cult.
They are in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you.
Where does that get us?

/

Ask paul. He said it..

 

[St. SteVen]

Ask paul. He said it..

Another gospel?
What does that mean?

Something other than your preference?

1 Corinthians 2:3-5 NIV
I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling.
4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words,
but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power,
5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

/

 

[MatthewG]

Then why do so many men reject him?

I thought this was a good question.

It's a choice.
18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.[h]”

 

[St. SteVen]

Eternally Grateful said:
Then why do so many men reject him?

I thought this was a good question.

I think it's a bogus question. Here's why.

In short, it's a HUGE assumption.
It assumes that everyone that did not receive Christ actually rejected him.
Is that true? (nope) IMHO

Most non-Christians are ambivalent about Christ.
And frankly, no one can come to God unless he draws them.

Who is to blame for not drawing them?
Did God predestine them to destruction? (by not calling them)

\

 

[MatthewG]

Eternally Grateful said:
Then why do so many men reject him?

I think it's a bogus question. Here's why.

In short, it's a HUGE assumption.
It assumes that everyone that did not receive Christ actually rejected him.
Is that true? (nope) IMHO

My thoughts are it was a great question. There are people who do not give a damn about God, or Jesus at all, Steven.

Most non-Christians are ambivalent about Christ.
And frankly, no one can come to God unless he draws them.

From my perspective, God is calling by the spirit and the bride daily, and Gods creation, shows forth his glory. There are people who reject.

Who is to blame for not drawing them?

Not God. Its by a willful admission to have nothing to do with God period, or atleast until they have a change of mind. There are so many factors to one human life of why a person makes the choices they do. God is consantly always calling, even after death (i believe.)

Did God predestine them to destruction? (by not calling them)

No one today is predestined for destruction. People make chaos within their own lives. It can come to ruin by a persons own predication of how they want to live life. Some desire it to be good and easy, some deal with it as hard as it can get, despite the cost of chasing after things that take one away from the living God.

There are many gods still abound and idols, people will find ideation in men, and rely on their advice rather God; meaning Him and Him alone.

Thank you for also submitting some great questions, it is a joy to answer sometimes if I am able.

 

[marks]

And frankly, no one can come to God unless he draws them.

Who is to blame for not drawing them?

Scripture corrects this POV. Your statement presupposes that some are not drawn.

John 12:30-33 KJV
30) Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33) This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Jesus was in fact crucified, therefore, He draws all men unto Himself.

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

There are people who do not give a damn about God, or Jesus at all, Steven.

Right. That's not rejection.
Could a Buddhist say that you rejected Buddha?
Did you give a damn about Buddha at all?

/

 

[MatthewG]

Right. That's not rejection.
Could a Buddhist say that you rejected Buddha?
Did you give a damn about Buddha at all?

/

Let me just put it to you this way, from within the heart, a person refuses to even believe in God, or even incorporate the Living God into ones own life. Between you and me it's a huge if 'God' exist. I believe that He exist. What can you tell me about what is in a persons heart to begin with, Steven?

 

[St. SteVen]

Let me just put it to you this way, from within the heart, a person refuses to even believe in God, or even incorporate the Living God into ones own life. Between you and me it's a huge if 'God' exist. I believe that He exist. What can you tell me about what is in a persons heart to begin with, Steven?

It requires faith to believe in God. It's not a given.
Christians wrongly assume that anyone can and should believe in God.
A very myopic view.

/

 

[MatthewG]

It requires faith to believe in God. It's not a given.
Christians wrongly assume that anyone can and should believe in God.
A very myopic view.

/

Okay then. Faith is trusting and hoping that God is even there, when you do not believe he is. That is all I know, Steven, you obviously have your own view, and that is totally okay with me. I am not a Christian, but a Yeshuan, and I do believe that people can and do decide if they believe in God or not. Human beings have a mind, will, emotion. They have a heart, a soul which is unique, and all souls are Gods, but God gives freewill choice. And it is a myrid of other factors of why you say people aren't able to seek God, from the heart, and he know them, no matter what culture background they are from, they are given the spirit of Christ, and they live to love God and love others.

Perhaps its that weapon, the bible, with the double edged blade.

 

[laBonhomme]

You really feel that you have a challenge to love Judas? I'm not sure that Jesus loved him, what's your reason for believing that He did? Jesus called the twelve tribal patriarchs by lineal descent to be His disciples, had Herod Agrippa, the usurper of Israelite kingship not been in power, Jesus would have been the King Himself. Just as David's legitimate heir was outcast and had to hide in Egypt during his youth because of the order to kill all those sons born in his birth year (because Herod knew of the visit of the three wise men), the patriarchal elder's heritages were also known, and they were living in the same penury. Judas was the head of a tribe; I see Jesus as only having served him at the last supper because of that.

The twelve were all members of the council of elders. Another reason I don't see myself as challenged to love Judas is that unlike Jusus, who ascended into Heaven and is still alive, Judas is deceased. The facts of an Allegretti style afterlife don't seem to make any difference here at all, Judas might be in Hell or asleep in the grave (Lasiurus was only sleeping, remember), but only Jesus was divine. You don't have to love a corrupt government official at all, I know Jesus did not lead a Zealot uprising against Herod who was a usurper, but this is a republic anyway, and honor is for the office of state, not the elected official. They make you respect elected officials, but they can still be impeached.

 

[St. SteVen]

You really feel that you have a challenge to love Judas? I'm not sure that Jesus loved him, what's your reason for believing that He did?

Jesus called him friend, even as he was being betrayed.
We villainize Judas, Jesus didn't.

Matthew 26:49-50 NIV
Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.
50 Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”[a]
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

@laBonhomme welcome to the forum.

/

 

[Cyd]

Jesus called him friend, even as he was being betrayed.
We villainize Judas, Jesus didn't.

Matthew 26:49-50 NIV
Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.
50 Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”[a]
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him.

Judas repented it said was he not forgiven?... did Peter repent for denying Christ 3 times? Messiah told them one was a devil of the 12 chosen, it is never made truly clear who that was to me. Messiah said if you deny me He would deny you to the Father yes? Story of Judas was a kiss pointing out just who Jesus was? Did I miss something more?

 

[St. SteVen]

Judas repented it said was he not forgiven?... did Peter repent for denying Christ 3 times? Messiah told them one was a devil of the 12 chosen, it is never made truly clear who that was to me. Messiah said if you deny me He would deny you to the Father yes? Story of Judas was a kiss pointing out just who Jesus was? Did I miss something more?

It was Judas.

John 6:70-71 NIV
Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

/

 

[Cyd]

It was Judas.

John 6:70-71 NIV
Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

/

So a devil can't be saved? with repentance? In John 17 He just says he lost one not that one went to hell... lost could just mean that because Judas was dead that left just 11? What was the betrayal?

 

[St. SteVen]

So a devil can't be saved? with repentance? In John 17 He just says he lost one not that one went to hell... lost could just mean that because Judas was dead that left just 11? What was the betrayal?

There was still a place for Judas. Like many, he will need some serious correction.

Acts 1:25 NIV
That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

/

 

[laBonhomme]

Judas repented it said was he not forgiven?... did Peter repent for denying Christ 3 times? Messiah told them one was a devil of the 12 chosen, it is never made truly clear who that was to me. Messiah said if you deny me He would deny you to the Father yes? Story of Judas was a kiss pointing out just who Jesus was? Did I miss something more?

Yeah, I know. Judas is said to have repented, but the forgot to repent to Jesus, who was dead on the cross by then. Also, he's supposed to have repented in the temple, but he had a bad attitude about it, the narrative sates that he threw the money on the floor and left, which isn't how repenting is done in the temple, the laws of confession and sacrifice are in Deuteronomy.

The most important thing about that scene is that it's the basis of the law against suicide.

 

[St. SteVen]

The most important thing about that scene is that it's the basis of the law against suicide.

What is the stated penalty in the law? Seems the natural consequence of the deed is enough.
And why would God not have mercy on one who has determined they are better off not remaining in the land of the living?

/